The Haka
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I must admit too being a little torn on the subject of the Haka. On the one hand I like the spectacle, love the tradition of the Haka going back all those years too. It was a real something to look forward to due to the rarity of seeing it, particularly first hand. I would hate to see it stopped. On the other hand it does seem to have become a little precious, various factions in NZ (and beyond) get all frothy when it is mentioned or it is suggested it has had its time, we now have rules about what can and can't be done in response. The thing itself has become highly choreographed and of course we have several versions.
Much of this "on the other hand" stuff has, for me, reduced the enjoyment of the spectacle and I yearn for earlier times when we had Ka Mate, it was watched with respect by the opposition, applauded by the crowd and we then got on with the game.
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Oliver Brown from The Telegraph picking up from where Marler left off:
Oliver Brown from The Telegraph picking up from where Marler left off:
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Really sad that he think this is worth writing about
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Really, really sad that he thinks that what he's written is better than what Marler wrote
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Really, really, really sad that it took a wind up merchant to wake him up and write something in the lead up to a very important match for both sides
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I must admit too being a little torn on the subject of the Haka. On the one hand I like the spectacle, love the tradition of the Haka going back all those years too. It was a real something to look forward to due to the rarity of seeing it, particularly first hand. I would hate to see it stopped. On the other hand it does seem to have become a little precious, various factions in NZ (and beyond) get all frothy when it is mentioned or it is suggested it has had its time, we now have rules about what can and can't be done in response. The thing itself has become highly choreographed and of course we have several versions.
Much of this "on the other hand" stuff has, for me, reduced the enjoyment of the spectacle and I yearn for earlier times when we had Ka Mate, it was watched with respect by the opposition, applauded by the crowd and we then got on with the game.
@Catogrande said in The Haka:
On the other hand it does seem to have become a little precious, various factions in NZ (and beyond) get all frothy when it is mentioned or it is suggested it has had its time, we now have rules about what can and can't be done in response.
I agree with some of that. It's the rules around the team facing it I can't stand and (like I suspect the vast majority of NZ'er) loved the Willie Anderson/Cockerill/France 2011 approach. It is a challenge, FFS.
What gets me is the ignorance around it perpetuated by click-bait journalists who know perfectly well what they are saying is bollocks.
The thing itself has become highly choreographed and of course we have several versions.
By it's nature it has to be and there are many, many haka. My old school has 5 apparently.
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@Catogrande said in The Haka:
On the other hand it does seem to have become a little precious, various factions in NZ (and beyond) get all frothy when it is mentioned or it is suggested it has had its time, we now have rules about what can and can't be done in response.
I agree with some of that. It's the rules around the team facing it I can't stand and (like I suspect the vast majority of NZ'er) loved the Willie Anderson/Cockerill/France 2011 approach. It is a challenge, FFS.
What gets me is the ignorance around it perpetuated by click-bait journalists who know perfectly well what they are saying is bollocks.
The thing itself has become highly choreographed and of course we have several versions.
By it's nature it has to be and there are many, many haka. My old school has 5 apparently.
That last bit is where culturally, I am somewhat adrift. I understand that there are many different Haka but in relation to the ABs, it was, from memory, always Ka Mate and that was the tradition. Now we have others and that leaves me a little cool. But as I say, I may not understand the cultural ambiguity of it all.
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That last bit is where culturally, I am somewhat adrift. I understand that there are many different Haka but in relation to the ABs, it was, from memory, always Ka Mate and that was the tradition. Now we have others and that leaves me a little cool. But as I say, I may not understand the cultural ambiguity of it all.
@Catogrande said in The Haka:
That last bit is where culturally, I am somewhat adrift. I understand that there are many different Haka but in relation to the ABs, it was, from memory, always Ka Mate and that was the tradition. Now we have others and that leaves me a little cool. But as I say, I may not understand the cultural ambiguity of it all.
There have actually been a number of them used by the AB's thru the years. Kapo o Pango (the "new" haka) is based on the one used by the 1924 team - Ko Niu Tireni. (As an aside, the latter was co-written by a non-maori so the multicultural thing goes back 100 years.)
Others are way better placed, but culturally it is a way of calling on ancestors and traditions & demonstrating physical prowess to the other side when they meet up. It's a friendly challenge and would normally responded to by another haka or similar.
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That last bit is where culturally, I am somewhat adrift. I understand that there are many different Haka but in relation to the ABs, it was, from memory, always Ka Mate and that was the tradition. Now we have others and that leaves me a little cool. But as I say, I may not understand the cultural ambiguity of it all.
@Catogrande said in The Haka:
That last bit is where culturally, I am somewhat adrift. I understand that there are many different Haka but in relation to the ABs, it was, from memory, always Ka Mate and that was the tradition. Now we have others and that leaves me a little cool. But as I say, I may not understand the cultural ambiguity of it all.
I guess you'd be used to seeing Ka Mate as 'the' haka, when in reality it's 'a' haka (and not that good a one in my opinion).
TBF, there's only one other AB haka used and it's 20 years old now
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“Who is going to lead the haka?”
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@scribe Joe likes to pretend he's a hard man, but did he ever play on with one testicle torn open and hanging loose?
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The gap is enforced by World Rugby, to all pre match challenges, nothing to do with the ABs. And there is no reason the opposition can't fuck off and do their own thing, as the ABs have done a haka in the sheds, saying it is for them, then no one can complain if the oppo doesn't stand there and take it. Funny how no one in England ever complains about Fiji , Samoa, Tonga.
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@scribe Joe likes to pretend he's a hard man, but did he ever play on with one testicle torn open and hanging loose?
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@Machpants said in The Haka:
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/sport/532540/haka-gate-english-prop-joe-marler-apologises-to-new-zealand
Why the hell did he need to apologise? That bothers me.
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I must admit too being a little torn on the subject of the Haka. On the one hand I like the spectacle, love the tradition of the Haka going back all those years too. It was a real something to look forward to due to the rarity of seeing it, particularly first hand. I would hate to see it stopped. On the other hand it does seem to have become a little precious, various factions in NZ (and beyond) get all frothy when it is mentioned or it is suggested it has had its time, we now have rules about what can and can't be done in response. The thing itself has become highly choreographed and of course we have several versions.
Much of this "on the other hand" stuff has, for me, reduced the enjoyment of the spectacle and I yearn for earlier times when we had Ka Mate, it was watched with respect by the opposition, applauded by the crowd and we then got on with the game.
@Catogrande said in The Haka:
I must admit too being a little torn on the subject of the Haka. On the one hand I like the spectacle, love the tradition of the Haka going back all those years too. It was a real something to look forward to due to the rarity of seeing it, particularly first hand. I would hate to see it stopped. On the other hand it does seem to have become a little precious, various factions in NZ (and beyond) get all frothy when it is mentioned or it is suggested it has had its time, we now have rules about what can and can't be done in response. The thing itself has become highly choreographed and of course we have several versions.
Much of this "on the other hand" stuff has, for me, reduced the enjoyment of the spectacle and I yearn for earlier times when we had Ka Mate, it was watched with respect by the opposition, applauded by the crowd and we then got on with the game.
I really hate the rules that WR put around how teams respond to it. That 100% goes against the idea of the Haka, if you watch two PI teams play they do it at the same time as that's the idea, a challenge set down to each other. Making teams that don't do a Haka or something similar stand awkwardly BEHIND the halfway line is so dumb. I yearn for the days of teams coming up with their own challenge, e.g. starting quite far back and then walking up towards it to face it head on - that shit is epic. It has definitely become highly commercialised and choreographed now which takes away from the spectacle and the challenge it is meant to be.
