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    @machpants said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

    There is also a premium article on Rugbypass, pointing out similar errors. In addition, the lack of growth in attacking plays, with the same plays that were used Vs Fiji& Oz, also used Vs boks. Not only that, they've been around since the Hansen era

    The try mentioned is the Savea one, which was just saying beaudy brilliance, and not a set play

    The try highlighted the possibilities for the All Blacks had they schemed deliberately for what they were facing, instead of rolling out Foster’s same old menu and trying to take on the Springboks in areas of strength like the maul.

    Based on their two games against the Springboks, Rennie and his staff looked far superior to the All Blacks brains trust when it came to game planning for the world champions.

    They tailored their game to the opposition to attack the weaknesses, whereas the All Blacks naively went brazenly forward trying to attack South Africa’s strengths and it backfired.

    This should be a key lesson for Foster’s All Blacks moving forward. In the organised parts of the game, they cannot change the pieces performing the roles, run the same plays against everyone and expect them to work.

    There needs to be some flexibility there and more thought into the process.

    The fact that they were running the same starter play with McKenzie on the left wing showed a certain level of naivety that, to no surprise, blew up.

    In tight test matches where counter-attacking opportunities dry up, the All Blacks will need to have a clinical set-piece attacking plan which, at times, needs to be adjusted for the opposition.

    They might have the most attacking talent in the world, but they still need decent plans to be devised to help them get the match-ups and space they need to let their skills shine.

    You cannot roll up and play the same against Fiji as you do against the Springboks and expect to win handsomely.

    It could work, or it could just as easily blow up like it did twice in the Rugby Championship..

    Sorry to go back to this ...
    Fair enough the Boks were up in our faces, brutal, energetic rugged commonsense rugby with some nicely worked out tries, pinpointed our weakest players, Vermeulen was again very good but very good at key moments (so, great player), their locks are bigger and tougher than before and quite frankly Taylor went into his shell after his miscatch, DMac and Havili and Richie were pounced on, they just don't have the mass, Patty T is a turnover waiting to happen, and Scotty B made yet more little stupid yellow coloured mistakes in front of the ref. I don't think he is a journeyman, just a solid international quality hardworking lock with brain fades at key moments.
    But we lack a hardworking hardnosed lock when Sammy W. is not there (and he is more an all-round hardworking good lock with great rugby brain rather than a hard bugger) and BBBR was still working back to his physically dominant self (but not in this match).

    Loosies: I thought Akira was generally ok, Savea was good, it was at 8 that a forward went missing. When Blackadder came on he was up in their faces and battled. So I am still surprised, what the hell happened to LJ, where was he? I saw him standing behind rucks and a bit after halftime but nothing dominant, nothing much to see.
    I wonder if we still have a key problem at 8 as well.

    I don't blame the coaches too much (apart, as the article rightly says, not targetting opposition weaknesses). but they should have realized DH would be targetted at 12, there is little point in DMac against the ABs if there are 2 10s (and you want JB on as long as possible, he was great again), but at midfield, we lacked dominance we lacked impact, and we lacked imagination. And Samisoni is clearer better for this sort of game than Asafo.

    Shout out to wings, I thought they played well. But we really have depth problems at lock and selection issues in the midfield. We were lucky the Boks persist with Pollard and Le Roux and can't get Steyn to full game fitness. He looks like a truckstop diner not a deft placement kicker but boy can he get them key territory.

    I thought the ref missed neck rolls/high tackles, offsides at rucks, general offsides and so forth but hey it was what it was. We had an off night and they had an on night.
    I thought we were outcoached as well, their bench timing was great again.

  • All Blacks EOYT 2021

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    @stargazer said in All Blacks EOYT 2021:

    "Um, yeah... just looking to get some kip. Away from the kid, and yeah... if you fellas need me to play some footy - yeah, sweet. But fuck, this sleeping through the night is pretty sweet."

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    @broughie said in All Blacks MOTM v Springboks I:

    @crucial I like how he seems to make the gain line. Just one of those things he seems to do well. I think Foster would find it difficult to move away from Havilli though.

    Some of those passes DH had to receive were excruciating. If they play BB and TJP again they should choose for 12 who ever can catch the ball despite how bad the pass is. I didn't actually see the one per game dud pass from Weber though, thought he was very good.

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    @no-quarter said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:

    @crazy-horse said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:

    @stodders said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:

    Did anyone read the player ratings today in the Sunday Times by Mr S Jones. Barrett was lucky to get a 6/10 and is almost as overrated as SBW. He does make me chuckle, especially when he's salty 🤣. He did v much enjoy the English win over NZ today. Is he really Welsh still?

    Haven't read what Jones wrote, but I too am not as excited about BB's performance as most seem to be. It was typical BB in that he showed he is a very very good rugby player but an average International 10 in other aspects.

    At the moment we have 2 flawed 10s, so the challenge for the coaches is how to best use their strengths. Right now they appear to prefer Beauden starting with Mo'unga on the bench, and I agree with that approach.

    Beauden handles the physical stuff better, is a solid defender, and is not afraid to run straight and hard when required. He's also worth 1 - 3 tries per game at any stage pretty much out of nowhere. He's a nightmare to defend as you can't take your eye off him for a second or he'll burn you. However, he won't take control of a tight test and drive the team around the park as you'd expect a traditional 10 to do.

    Mo'unga looks a million bucks when his forward pack is bitch slapping the opposition all over the park (Saders), is lethal in open play and comes into his own towards the end of the game when defenses are tiring. He also has a better kicking game from hand. However, he doesn't handle the physical teams well at all, and has gone missing against the English and the Boks when they've had our pack on the back foot, so is also unable to take control of a tight test. He's also a poor defender so doesn't often defend in the line as other teams will target him.

    Given their attributes, I can understand the preference for Beauden starting, though it can be horses for courses a bit depending on the opposition.

    That's spot on in my opinion even though I rank Richie as the better overall 10 (and BB has lost some of his outrageous slinky acceleration). If Jordie is kicking conversions I agree with the selection (sorry, Crusader fans, I can only defend your team for so long).

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    Since 2000 AB quizzes
    For reference there have been 292 tests/games that the All Blacks have officially played since 2000 (includes last Bledisloe match

    Bonus Question - Which two players have started together as both a 1st 5 and a 2nd 5?

    Dan Carter and Stephen Donald

    The Carter/Donald combo started in the 2009 loss to the Boks in Hamilton.
    The Donald/Carter combo started in the 2008 win against the Wallabies in Hong Kong

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    @kruse said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

    @rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

    @antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

    One thing TSF is terribly good at is straw man arguments.

    It's entirely fine and proper to point out a player isn't up to Test rugby at that stage of their development. That doesn't rule out maturity and improvement. It certainly doesn't rule out criticism.

    Again that's not the argument. It's when a player is ripped to shreds as being shit, not up to it etc. And again let's stop pretending nuance is a thing here.

    Nuance is a thing everywhere. If only you can recognise/understand it.
    And it's "balderdash".
    Boulder Dash was a sweet little computer game.

    Stick to reviewing shitty Movies. It's a much better use of your time.

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    I'll have to rewatch it but Samsoni was attracting several defenders at a time, not going backwards and solid with ball security, given last week they gave Akira a lot of 2 tackler attention it would be rather mouthwatering to see them both on the field.

  • Openside flankers

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    @bovidae said in Openside flankers:

    @mikethesnow Yeah, those are the two names I was familiar with. Duncan Jones is in the squad too.

    Didn’t see Duncan
    He was great for us along with Adam Jones

    Scott Morgan had a few caps too

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    @machpants said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

    @majorrage said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

    Still plenty to talk about on that game, so not going to lock it over one of the silliest spat's I've seen on TSF.

    Ball, not the Man, team.

    Is there an award for that?

    Get in line, amateurs.

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    @kirwan pretty sure he wasn't if you actually watched the game closely.

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    Can't really do anything with this fucking vertigo, so I had this still on the sky recorded. 2 points that came up later in the year confirmed

    ABs attacking shape was fucking non existent, just individual brilliance made most of the tries. As mentioned above set piece was shit, but HEY we've got individual brilliance George bridge has no positive impact, he is such a pathetic thing to have as an all black 11. That's lomu's Jersey FFS.

    Also TJ was rather good, aside from his desperate desire to take every penalty quickly. Conversely DMac was a fucking idiot, with no control, crap passing (first 6 mins, 3 passes to ground), and an ability to either pass to someone in a much poorer position, or run himself into a worse position.

  • Next line of reserves

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    Those two passes to Akira to put him on the outside from Jordan were things of beauty too.

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    @antipodean said in All Blacks MOTM vs Aus III:

    @canefan said in All Blacks MOTM vs Aus III:

    @antipodean said in All Blacks MOTM vs Aus III:

    @junior said in All Blacks MOTM vs Aus III:

    @victor-meldrew said in All Blacks MOTM vs Aus III:

    @gt12 said in All Blacks MOTM vs Aus III:

    Under Shag, Cane got left out of the starting line-up of a WC semi-final.

    Yeah, the one bloke who would have caused England serious problems from the word go.

    That loss still rankles with me - and not just for the Cane omission. Some of the dumbest play I've seen from an AB team for years, mainly from the senior players

    It’s taken me a long time to accept that Sam Whitelock might be a decent captain after his facepalm to Farrell late on, which effectively ended what little glimmer of hope we might have had of pinching that match

    I don't blame him for that - it was a ridiculous intervention by the referee.

    Farrell was being a prick. But he bit the bait

    That's not in contention. It's the bullshit reversal from Owen that's the issue.

    I agree. But in the current climate the retaliator almost always gets pinged. So we can argue but at the end of the day he needs to keep his discipline there

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    @mn5 said in Test Schedule this year:

    @dan54 said in Test Schedule this year:

    @mn5 Sorry fellas got distracted, but not sure why I cranky etc, I just wonder why I get shit because I asked if anyone knew of the ABs having a harder test schedule. Instead of answering I get called a Fozzie supporter (which I will be while he coaches ABs, because I an AB supposter) . So I tkae it noone really know of a heavier test schedule?

    One should never get cranky on the fern, it’s all fun and bullshit on here anyway.

    I agree wholeheartedly mate, I never take it too seriously, hell it's a forum on the Net!

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    @catogrande said in Foster, Robertson, Rennie etc:

    @booboo said in Foster, Robertson, Rennie etc:

    @catogrande said in Foster, Robertson, Rennie etc:

    @victor-meldrew
    I know both sides have a view about the rivalry, probably based on the importance of the game to both countries, but really? A rivalry is usually based on a bit of to and fro results wise. For sure Wales have run NZ close a good few times and often approach the game in a similar way. But it’s been almost 70 years now and never away from home.

    Wasn't really one sided until 1980 when we smacked them up in the Centenary Test. Still really close matches (st least in Wales) in the 70s.

    Back in the 70s you played them twice.

    3 x really as you should count the Wales XV game after the Irish Centenary test in 1974.

    So quite regularly for those days.

    And if you just count tests it was 7-3 up until 1979. And only the 2x 1969 tests in NZ weren't close. (Only two games in NZ to that point.)

    Enough of us old blokes around who remember when Wales was Wales.

    And then there's Bob Deans. We're still not over that.

    This convo should probably go in the other thread but can't be fussed moving posts at the mo.

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    @pakman said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:

    @victor-meldrew said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:

    @winger said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:

    https://www.rugbypass.com/news/the-whiteboard-session-that-proved-maa-nonu-as-an-all-blacks-great/

    It was pretty obvious Ma'a was a keen student of the game if you look at how he developed over the years. Certainly no-one's fool rugby-wise

    Pretty happy with Bruce Robertson at 13. He's still the standard for an old bugger like me - think Conrad Smith but better and a bit more skilful. Could drop a goal from 40m if you needed him to.

    Couldn’t agree more.

    Check out a 20 year old BR at 9.23:

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    How fitting:

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    Aaron, Akira and Codie.

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    @bovidae said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

    @pakman said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

    Sotutu is excellent in lineouts, and has superb passing skills.

    The problem has been that Sotutu sometimes doesn't pass when he should (for example, ignoring BB right before HT vs Fiji). Jacobson has always been used in the lineout in any team he has played for.

    We should just be happy that we have some depth in the loose forwards, and there are options.

    Agree , I think Ardie is miles better than Sotutu when it comes to passing/ decision making from the base of the scrum.