All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@zed Say what? You want to legalise obstruction as long as it happens behind the ball? Have you been smoking the same stuff Kafe seems to be these days?
Lets say that happened 70 metres out - would you call it a legitimate penalising?
lol no. But what DHP did was not significant enough to disallow the try.
@zed said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@zed Say what? You want to legalise obstruction as long as it happens behind the ball? Have you been smoking the same stuff Kafe seems to be these days?
Lets say that happened 70 metres out - would you call it a legitimate penalising?
lol no. But what DHP did was not significant enough to disallow the try.
Serious enough to he penalised. Seriouz enough to disallow the try.
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@NTA said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@zed said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Disappointing decision by the ref, disallowing a try, but it becomes a moot point and irrelevant when you done by 20+ points. Perhaps a closer game you'd be justified in bringing it up.
And Cheika started basically that.
Yep he was fine about that, but why, for the love of God did he have to basically blame the abs for pictures in the Herald or mention the bugging incident? Or even the lack of a beer invite? What's wrong with him?
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@NTA said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@zed said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Disappointing decision by the ref, disallowing a try, but it becomes a moot point and irrelevant when you done by 20+ points. Perhaps a closer game you'd be justified in bringing it up.
And Cheika started basically that.
Yep he was fine about that, but why, for the love of God did he have to basically blame the abs for pictures in the Herald or mention the bugging incident? Or even the lack of a beer invite? What's wrong with him?
Is there a bigger whinging bitch in world rugby right now than Chieka?
My 4 and 6 year old daughters act more mature then he does when things don't go their way.
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The TMO call was a massive point in the match. I don't think the end result would have been different, but the ABs would have been put in a position they've never been in this year - scores tied or even behind in the second half of a match. Who knows how they would react?
All of a sudden some posters here have a newfound zeal for the law book, which is nice to see. But to me just pointing to the laws and saying 'he broke that one' is not enough to justify a decision.
Rugby is about grey areas, and working out which infringements impact the game and which do not. You could blow 3 or 4 penalties at every ruck, with the same 'it's against the law' justification that those on here have used. That doesn't make it good refereeing.
I don't think the TMO call was a good one. I don't think it was an out and out clanger, either. I can see both sides of the argument. On the balance of probablity, Savea isn't getting to Speight, and DHP's actions weren't agregious enough to warrant a penalty. You could mount an equally strong case that the penalty should have gone against Savea, for his initial hindering of DHP.
But you wouldn't, because by and large it wouldn't have impacted the end result. Same, IMO, with what DHP did to Savea.
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@NTA said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@zed said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Disappointing decision by the ref, disallowing a try, but it becomes a moot point and irrelevant when you done by 20+ points. Perhaps a closer game you'd be justified in bringing it up.
And Cheika started basically that.
In amongst other diversionary comments
@booboo said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
In amongst other diversionary comments
Which I covered at length in another post. Do I need to repeat myself in each one? :thinking: Maybe I should change my signature to a Cheika disclaimer...
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The TMO call was a massive point in the match. I don't think the end result would have been different, but the ABs would have been put in a position they've never been in this year - scores tied or even behind in the second half of a match. Who knows how they would react?
All of a sudden some posters here have a newfound zeal for the law book, which is nice to see. But to me just pointing to the laws and saying 'he broke that one' is not enough to justify a decision.
Rugby is about grey areas, and working out which infringements impact the game and which do not. You could blow 3 or 4 penalties at every ruck, with the same 'it's against the law' justification that those on here have used. That doesn't make it good refereeing.
I don't think the TMO call was a good one. I don't think it was an out and out clanger, either. I can see both sides of the argument. On the balance of probablity, Savea isn't getting to Speight, and DHP's actions weren't agregious enough to warrant a penalty. You could mount an equally strong case that the penalty should have gone against Savea, for his initial hindering of DHP.
But you wouldn't, because by and large it wouldn't have impacted the end result. Same, IMO, with what DHP did to Savea.
@Virgil said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Is there a bigger whinging bitch in world rugby right now than Chieka?
I can think of a bigger bitch when it comes to cricket.
@barbarian said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
I don't think the TMO call was a good one. I don't think it was an out and out clanger, either. I can see both sides of the argument. On the balance of probablity, Savea isn't getting to Speight, and DHP's actions weren't agregious enough to warrant a penalty. You could mount an equally strong case that the penalty should have gone against Savea, for his initial hindering of DHP.
But you wouldn't, because by and large it wouldn't have impacted the end result. Same, IMO, with what DHP did to Savea.
Yep. "Material effect" is what a lot of refs are looking for.
The part for World Rugby to look at will be mostly around protocols relating to TMO and Broadcast:
TMO can pull up anything before the conversion is attempted. So if you score a dodgy one under the posts and the ref says its OK, then you pop a droppie over, you're fine. If its out wide and you need a minute to catch your breath and walk the tee back, you might not be fine.
That is probably the inconsistent part. First instance I can remember was Fiji v England in RWC2015, when the guy was shown to knock-on after Peyper gave it, because he was behind play. At the time there was a fair bit of head scratching from all the neutrals.
As for Hansen contrasting that event to Coles/Foley - different situations as its two guys going for the ball, so I don't think you can really use that to highlight "obstruction" as a ruling. They're different clauses in the Law.
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@Virgil said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Is there a bigger whinging bitch in world rugby right now than Chieka?
I can think of a bigger bitch when it comes to cricket.
@barbarian said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
I don't think the TMO call was a good one. I don't think it was an out and out clanger, either. I can see both sides of the argument. On the balance of probablity, Savea isn't getting to Speight, and DHP's actions weren't agregious enough to warrant a penalty. You could mount an equally strong case that the penalty should have gone against Savea, for his initial hindering of DHP.
But you wouldn't, because by and large it wouldn't have impacted the end result. Same, IMO, with what DHP did to Savea.
Yep. "Material effect" is what a lot of refs are looking for.
The part for World Rugby to look at will be mostly around protocols relating to TMO and Broadcast:
TMO can pull up anything before the conversion is attempted. So if you score a dodgy one under the posts and the ref says its OK, then you pop a droppie over, you're fine. If its out wide and you need a minute to catch your breath and walk the tee back, you might not be fine.
That is probably the inconsistent part. First instance I can remember was Fiji v England in RWC2015, when the guy was shown to knock-on after Peyper gave it, because he was behind play. At the time there was a fair bit of head scratching from all the neutrals.
As for Hansen contrasting that event to Coles/Foley - different situations as its two guys going for the ball, so I don't think you can really use that to highlight "obstruction" as a ruling. They're different clauses in the Law.
@NTA said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Virgil said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Is there a bigger whinging bitch in world rugby right now than Chieka?
I can think of a bigger bitch when it comes to cricket@NTA said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Virgil said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:Is there a bigger whinging bitch in world rugby right now than Chieka?
I can think of a bigger bitch when it comes to cricket.
Steve Smith??
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Watching in real time I instantly thought dhp bombed that try. Don't see any controversy at all.
It was a crucial moment in the match, dhp's decision to turn a 95% try scoring chance into '100%' was so so poor.
The crucial moment was dhp's decision, not the Tmo decision. That was common sense and a zero on the controversy scale. What am I missing?
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
I was pretty boozed when I watched this, but the thing that was apparent to me was how quickly the wallabies structure on both sides of the ball break down. It only takes a couple of phases for them to look really disorganised
Especially the backs. In part that was because our three-quarter line had about 25 caps between them. Also I just don't rate Speight defensively. His attempted intercept was the right move until it utterly wasn't.
Some very poor tackling from starting 11, 12, 13, 14 and the replacement (Naivalu?) wasn't much better
@NTA said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Some very poor tackling from starting 11, 12, 13, 14 and the replacement (Naivalu?) wasn't much better
He was basically anonymous.
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@Crucial said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@broughie who gets dropped for Akira?
I think he is quite a way off being test ready.
I just scanned through the game as I recall a head butt from Hooper, anything come from it?
It was pretty tame but still, I have seen that get carded before. Crotty also got a hefty kick to the face at one point that may not have been deliberate but was 'deliberately reckless'. A swinging leg toward the head of a player near the ball.
Did you see my post regards Mumm elbows Retallick about 52.40. There was a few niggly off the ball things, equally I took delete in Coles smacking Mumms head into the turf after tackling that mutant giraffe.
@westcoastie said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@broughie who gets dropped for Akira?
I think he is quite a way off being test ready.
I just scanned through the game as I recall a head butt from Hooper, anything come from it?
It was pretty tame but still, I have seen that get carded before. Crotty also got a hefty kick to the face at one point that may not have been deliberate but was 'deliberately reckless'. A swinging leg toward the head of a player near the ball.
Did you see my post regards Mumm elbows Retallick about 52.40. There was a few niggly off the ball things, equally I took delete in Coles smacking Mumms head into the turf after tackling that mutant giraffe.
This just in. Dean "Runslikeya" Mumm has just been cited for striking. c/Radio Sport #eatshityamuppet
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The TMO call was a massive point in the match. I don't think the end result would have been different, but the ABs would have been put in a position they've never been in this year - scores tied or even behind in the second half of a match. Who knows how they would react?
All of a sudden some posters here have a newfound zeal for the law book, which is nice to see. But to me just pointing to the laws and saying 'he broke that one' is not enough to justify a decision.
Rugby is about grey areas, and working out which infringements impact the game and which do not. You could blow 3 or 4 penalties at every ruck, with the same 'it's against the law' justification that those on here have used. That doesn't make it good refereeing.
I don't think the TMO call was a good one. I don't think it was an out and out clanger, either. I can see both sides of the argument. On the balance of probablity, Savea isn't getting to Speight, and DHP's actions weren't agregious enough to warrant a penalty. You could mount an equally strong case that the penalty should have gone against Savea, for his initial hindering of DHP.
But you wouldn't, because by and large it wouldn't have impacted the end result. Same, IMO, with what DHP did to Savea.
@barbarian said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
The TMO call was a massive point in the match. I don't think the end result would have been different, but the ABs would have been put in a position they've never been in this year - scores tied or even behind in the second half of a match. Who knows how they would react?
Like their semi-final against South Africa last year? Or their pool game against Argentina? I think we've seen enough from this team that it can stay in the competition and give itself a chance.
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@NTA said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Virgil said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Is there a bigger whinging bitch in world rugby right now than Chieka?
I can think of a bigger bitch when it comes to cricket@NTA said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Virgil said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:Is there a bigger whinging bitch in world rugby right now than Chieka?
I can think of a bigger bitch when it comes to cricket.
Steve Smith??
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@NTA said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Virgil said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Steve Smith??
Closer to home.
Ahh yes, that's right - Michael Clarke isn't away on tour anymore.
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Thoughts on the All Blacks playing without a goal kicker?
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@zed said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Kafer lost his shit last night and said that Owens should never ref an international game ever again. I hope he apologizes. Kafer has always been one of the better coms on Fox but that was disgraceful.
Cheika is just an appalling character. His pathetic tantrums and conspiracy theories belong in soccer not rugby. It's a shame because this team does have potential and actually looked well coached yesterday.
I haven't been much of a fan of Liam Squire, but I have to say that he's given me a bit if a stiffy in the past few weeks.
I'm (we're?) getting a bit tired of Cheika having these dummy spits every time the ref makes a call he doesn't agree with. OK the disallowed try, you'd forgive him for losing the plot, but he does it every time something doesn't go the Wallabies way. He did it throughout the Wallabies/Eng series, very tiresome.
re Owens, great ref, he made a mistake, it didn't cost us the game. It could be argued that perhaps if the try wasn't disallowed then the shape of the game would have changed, but after we leaked 20+ points at the end, I don't really see it.
Why did you think he made a mistake? He referred what he thought was illegal play to the TMO. The TMO reviewed the footage and they found that DHP illegally obstructed Savea - which he did.
What mistake did Owen's make?
zed said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
....re Owens, great ref, he made a mistake, it didn't cost us the game. It could be argued that perhaps if the try wasn't disallowed then the shape of the game would have changed, but after we leaked 20+ points at the end, I don't really see it.
@__Nepia responded__ in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Why did you think he made a mistake? He referred what he thought was illegal play to the TMO. The TMO reviewed the footage and they found that DHP illegally obstructed Savea - which he did.
What mistake did Owen's make?
As knowledgeable sports broadcaster Bruce McAvaney used say I think this next bit is "special":
zed said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
"Not sure of the rules, Savea was never going to make the tackle. If what DHP did is a legitimate offence (shepherding a player in back-play) then the rules need to change."
which is pretty much "Dunno the law but I don't like it therefore Owens made a mistake and, if that doesn't get a guernsey, the law is dodgy and must be changed to something more to my liking"
Scroll up is your friend - you will find the rule is expressed ever so simply and that it doesn't complicate matters by inviting assessment of whether a tackle might have been made, or by mentioning shepherding or by offering a waiver if hurt folk don't like it.
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Thoughts on the All Blacks playing without a goal kicker?
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Thoughts on the All Blacks playing without a goal kicker?
One day it might trip us up
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Thoughts on the All Blacks playing without a goal kicker?
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Thoughts on the All Blacks playing without a goal kicker?
Considering every 10 in the squad is a kicker for their Super teams, whos playing 10? Ben Smith?
If Beaudy is your 10 as I assume you're referring to his average kicking, that would be Naholo and Savea on the wings, cause Dagg has shown he can kick, and then Ben at fullback?
If thats the strike-force, then honestly, who gives a rats - coz they've shown they can strike from anywhere and win against Tier 1 sides with minimal possession.
Hasn't cost us a test match so far, did it cost the Canes at all this year?Made this commentary last night - Beauden Barrett has probably only ever been responsible for kicking on Eden Park 4-5 times (a bunch with the Canes, and maybe once previously with the AB's) maybe there are a few nuances on that ground, that he hasn't dealt with yet, Foley missed some even easier kicks than Beaudy, and I thought I recalled the MatchComms suggesting the wind was swirly.
That said, hes an AB, he needs to do better.
