1993 Lions tour
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This thread and the 2005 one have whetted my appetite and I've managed to source some highlights of the 1971 series. Watching the highlights of the third test gave me just about the best commentary moment I've seen and heard in a test match.
"And there's Joseph, and he tripped over a dog believe it or not".
Sure enough there was a dog on the field and at one point some young kid came on the field to get their dog back during a break for a line out. No one batted an eyelid.. Fantastic.
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I had forgotten how nippy Barnes was.
@Disgusted-of-TW said in 1993 Lions tour:
I had forgotten how nippy Barnes was.
You are referring to the dog?
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This thread and the 2005 one have whetted my appetite and I've managed to source some highlights of the 1971 series. Watching the highlights of the third test gave me just about the best commentary moment I've seen and heard in a test match.
"And there's Joseph, and he tripped over a dog believe it or not".
Sure enough there was a dog on the field and at one point some young kid came on the field to get their dog back during a break for a line out. No one batted an eyelid.. Fantastic.
@Catogrande said in 1993 Lions tour:
This thread and the 2005 one have whetted my appetite and I've managed to source some highlights of the 1971 series. Watching the highlights of the third test gave me just about the best commentary moment I've seen and heard in a test match.
"And there's Joseph, and he tripped over a dog believe it or not".
Sure enough there was a dog on the field and at one point some young kid came on the field to get their dog back during a break for a line out. No one batted an eyelid.. Fantastic.
71 series was the first Lions one I really followed - as in scrapbook listened to every game. Went to the Maori and 4th test. Dawes, John and Gibson visited my school
Great memories for a young in - even if the result sort of sucked
Since them only missed one Lions test at EP (83 when I was making myself very popular in London by successfully predicting the 4-0 sweep)
TBH we were bloody lucky in in 77 when the Lions forwards owned us but poor coaching and unimaginative backs plus a shocking inter did for the Lions - although it was all on until Knight scored at the end of the 4th test
93 could have gone either way in the test series but 83 and 95 were just disasters for the Lions - although the fans didn't seem to mind - full credit.
Will miss another one this year as only have tickets to 3rd Test
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@Catogrande said in 1993 Lions tour:
This thread and the 2005 one have whetted my appetite and I've managed to source some highlights of the 1971 series. Watching the highlights of the third test gave me just about the best commentary moment I've seen and heard in a test match.
"And there's Joseph, and he tripped over a dog believe it or not".
Sure enough there was a dog on the field and at one point some young kid came on the field to get their dog back during a break for a line out. No one batted an eyelid.. Fantastic.
71 series was the first Lions one I really followed - as in scrapbook listened to every game. Went to the Maori and 4th test. Dawes, John and Gibson visited my school
Great memories for a young in - even if the result sort of sucked
Since them only missed one Lions test at EP (83 when I was making myself very popular in London by successfully predicting the 4-0 sweep)
TBH we were bloody lucky in in 77 when the Lions forwards owned us but poor coaching and unimaginative backs plus a shocking inter did for the Lions - although it was all on until Knight scored at the end of the 4th test
93 could have gone either way in the test series but 83 and 95 were just disasters for the Lions - although the fans didn't seem to mind - full credit.
Will miss another one this year as only have tickets to 3rd Test
@dogmeat said in 1993 Lions tour:
71 series was the first Lions one I really followed - as in scrapbook listened to every game. Went to the Maori and 4th test. Dawes, John and Gibson visited my school
Great memories for a young in - even if the result sort of sucked
The 1971 tour was before my time but I was interested to read Phil Gifford's opinion piece on the tour, and in particular the myth that the Lions backs were the difference in that series.
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Had the Lions vs Waikato game on in the background just before. Geez Wayne Warlow was a big hard running winger. Did he ever play Super Rugby?
@MN5 said in 1993 Lions tour:
Had the Lions vs Waikato game on in the background just before. Geez Wayne Warlow was a big hard running winger. Did he ever play Super Rugby?
I don't think so. Warlow's career was winding down by the time Super rugby started although he did make a few appearances for Waikato in 1998-99 at centre. He was a big back for that era.
Warlow scored the only try for Thames Valley against the 1986 Aust team, which gives you an idea of when he started.
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Actually played against Wayne Warlow once. Was at Lions-Maoris game in 1993 at Athletic Park and remember Prince doing that, although admittedly I just chuckled at the time. Boy did that backfire though, remember the Lions being behind at halftime with Bayfield etc being shut out at lineout time but all one way traffic in the 2nd half.
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@dogmeat said in 1993 Lions tour:
71 series was the first Lions one I really followed - as in scrapbook listened to every game. Went to the Maori and 4th test. Dawes, John and Gibson visited my school
Great memories for a young in - even if the result sort of sucked
The 1971 tour was before my time but I was interested to read Phil Gifford's opinion piece on the tour, and in particular the myth that the Lions backs were the difference in that series.
@Bovidae Nice article. As Willie-John McBride said - "Get your retaliation in first"!
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@MN5 said in 1993 Lions tour:
Had the Lions vs Waikato game on in the background just before. Geez Wayne Warlow was a big hard running winger. Did he ever play Super Rugby?
I don't think so. Warlow's career was winding down by the time Super rugby started although he did make a few appearances for Waikato in 1998-99 at centre. He was a big back for that era.
Warlow scored the only try for Thames Valley against the 1986 Aust team, which gives you an idea of when he started.
@Bovidae said in 1993 Lions tour:
@MN5 said in 1993 Lions tour:
Had the Lions vs Waikato game on in the background just before. Geez Wayne Warlow was a big hard running winger. Did he ever play Super Rugby?
I don't think so. Warlow's career was winding down by the time Super rugby started although he did make a few appearances for Waikato in 1998-99 at centre. He was a big back for that era.
Warlow scored the only try for Thames Valley against the 1986 Aust team, which gives you an idea of when he started.
to be fair some of the Lions backs looked pretty miniscule in comparison, a far cry from what we'll see mid year!
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@Bovidae said in 1993 Lions tour:
@MN5 said in 1993 Lions tour:
Had the Lions vs Waikato game on in the background just before. Geez Wayne Warlow was a big hard running winger. Did he ever play Super Rugby?
I don't think so. Warlow's career was winding down by the time Super rugby started although he did make a few appearances for Waikato in 1998-99 at centre. He was a big back for that era.
Warlow scored the only try for Thames Valley against the 1986 Aust team, which gives you an idea of when he started.
to be fair some of the Lions backs looked pretty miniscule in comparison, a far cry from what we'll see mid year!
@MN5 said in 1993 Lions tour:
to be fair some of the Lions backs looked pretty miniscule in comparison, a far cry from what we'll see mid year!
Owen Farrell & Jonathan Joseph are pretty small for modern backs. Ditto Hogg, Halfpenny etc. There's not that many big munters in the lions frame, North, Kearney I guess, but we probably outsize them, Savea, Dagg, Naholo, SBW are all big,
Rene RangerIsia ToeavaNorm BerrymanJordie Barrett if he gets a run -
@MN5 said in 1993 Lions tour:
to be fair some of the Lions backs looked pretty miniscule in comparison, a far cry from what we'll see mid year!
Owen Farrell & Jonathan Joseph are pretty small for modern backs. Ditto Hogg, Halfpenny etc. There's not that many big munters in the lions frame, North, Kearney I guess, but we probably outsize them, Savea, Dagg, Naholo, SBW are all big,
Rene RangerIsia ToeavaNorm BerrymanJordie Barrett if he gets a run -
@gollum Farrell is 1.88m and 96kg (Source: Wiki) so while not being a giant is not exactly small even for these days. But yeah some of those poached boys of yours will be bigger...
That's not big for a modern inside centre tho'. If you figure England have had Zara's husband, Barritt, Twelvetrees & Tuilagi all there prior & they were all 100kg+, the ABs had used Nonu & SBW, Wales used anyone 100kg+ who could run straight & not pass...
My point was in reply to the idea that this Lions team will be huge munters compared to the ABs (a reversal of the tour MN5 was discussing), I'm pretty sure we wil outweigh their backline.
@MN5 said in 1993 Lions tour:
Dagg is big???
Yes, he really is. Certainly bigger than Halfpenny, Mike Brown, Hogg, Farrell etc
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That's not big for a modern inside centre tho'. If you figure England have had Zara's husband, Barritt, Twelvetrees & Tuilagi all there prior & they were all 100kg+, the ABs had used Nonu & SBW, Wales used anyone 100kg+ who could run straight & not pass...
My point was in reply to the idea that this Lions team will be huge munters compared to the ABs (a reversal of the tour MN5 was discussing), I'm pretty sure we wil outweigh their backline.
@MN5 said in 1993 Lions tour:
Dagg is big???
Yes, he really is. Certainly bigger than Halfpenny, Mike Brown, Hogg, Farrell etc
@gollum said in 1993 Lions tour:
That's not big for a modern inside centre tho'. If you figure England have had Zara's husband, Barritt, Twelvetrees & Tuilagi all there prior & they were all 100kg+, the ABs had used Nonu & SBW, Wales used anyone 100kg+ who could run straight & not pass...
My point was in reply to the idea that this Lions team will be huge munters compared to the ABs (a reversal of the tour MN5 was discussing), I'm pretty sure we wil outweigh their backline.
@MN5 said in 1993 Lions tour:
Dagg is big???
Yes, he really is. Certainly bigger than Halfpenny, Mike Brown, Hogg, Farrell etc
Fair call those fullbacks are all smallish jokers.
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That's not big for a modern inside centre tho'. If you figure England have had Zara's husband, Barritt, Twelvetrees & Tuilagi all there prior & they were all 100kg+, the ABs had used Nonu & SBW, Wales used anyone 100kg+ who could run straight & not pass...
My point was in reply to the idea that this Lions team will be huge munters compared to the ABs (a reversal of the tour MN5 was discussing), I'm pretty sure we wil outweigh their backline.
@MN5 said in 1993 Lions tour:
Dagg is big???
Yes, he really is. Certainly bigger than Halfpenny, Mike Brown, Hogg, Farrell etc
@gollum said in 1993 Lions tour:
That's not big for a modern inside centre tho'. If you figure England have had Zara's husband, Barritt, Twelvetrees & Tuilagi all there prior & they were all 100kg+, the ABs had used Nonu & SBW, Wales used anyone 100kg+ who could run straight & not pass...
My point was in reply to the idea that this Lions team will be huge munters compared to the ABs (a reversal of the tour MN5 was discussing), I'm pretty sure we wil outweigh their backline.
@MN5 said in 1993 Lions tour:
Dagg is big???
Yes, he really is. Certainly bigger than Halfpenny, Mike Brown, Hogg, Farrell etc
Agree, not that big for a 12 these days but ask him and he'd likely say he's a 10. BTW, Wiki has Dagg at 1.85m and 96kg. If true not that big either
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Various big options open to the ABs, but if we ran with:
Smith, Barrett, Crotty, ALB, Savea, Dagg, Smith then Savea would be the only guy over 100kg
Most likely variation, I think is SBW at 2nd five (or centre?), which would add some size. As would alternative midfielders like Fekitoa, Tamanivalu or Moala.
I can't see them pairing Savea and Naholo to play two big wings.
TJ would add size at halfback.
Alternatively Cruden or NMS would make our unit smaller.
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@dogmeat said in 1993 Lions tour:
71 series was the first Lions one I really followed - as in scrapbook listened to every game. Went to the Maori and 4th test. Dawes, John and Gibson visited my school
Great memories for a young in - even if the result sort of sucked
The 1971 tour was before my time but I was interested to read Phil Gifford's opinion piece on the tour, and in particular the myth that the Lions backs were the difference in that series.
@Bovidae said in 1993 Lions tour:
The 1971 tour was before my time but I was interested to read Phil Gifford's opinion piece on the tour, and in particular the myth that the Lions backs were the difference in that series.
Jeez Giffords article was all over the place
Whilst technically correct his piece about the Lions ignores the tone of the tour
I myself used to take solace in the fact that if tries had been worth 4 points (introduced the next year) we would have won the 71 series.
But that straw and Giffords piece ignores the relative strengths of the two teams.
By 71 the AB's were coming (had come) to the end of one of their most successful eras ever.
An era built on forward dominance but that under the innovation of Fred Allen had redefined the game on the 67 tour so that it resembled something like the modern game in terms of interplay between forwards and backs and skills etc
The Needle had gone and been replaced by Vodanovich an old school coach who was suspicious of airy fairyness and favoured 9 man rugby with Going as the playmaker.
The lions reputation for open running was built around their demolition of our provincial sides.
they beat wtn by 38 points, Maori by 11 (midweek) Akl in the game before the 3rd test and were the only Lions side to go undefeated against the provinces.
Come the tests they were up against an aging AB side that didn't have a lot of pace and should have won the first test in Dunedin more comfortably.
They underestimated us in the 2nd and were well beaten so they figured to play safety first because they knew they had the measure of our forwards and didn't really rate our backs - amd who can blame them
For the record these are the backs who started the last 2 tests
Laurie Mains, Bruce Hunter, Howard Joseph, Wayne Cottrell, Ken Carrington, Bob Burgess (rep Mick Duncan), Sid Going,
Laurie Mains, Ken Carrington, Mick Duncan, Phil Gard, Bryan Williams, Wayne Cottrell, Sid Going
Decidedly average
Lions: Williams, Gerald Davies, Dawes (c), Gibson, Duckham, John, Edwards
Nearly 50 years later I reckon every Kiwi that follows rugby to any extent recognizes all those Lions names. I went to the 4th test and theres 2 AB names I don't know
I had to look up Gard, Duncan and Joseph. They played 5 tests between them. All debuted against the Lions. None ever capped again
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@Bovidae said in 1993 Lions tour:
The 1971 tour was before my time but I was interested to read Phil Gifford's opinion piece on the tour, and in particular the myth that the Lions backs were the difference in that series.
Jeez Giffords article was all over the place
Whilst technically correct his piece about the Lions ignores the tone of the tour
I myself used to take solace in the fact that if tries had been worth 4 points (introduced the next year) we would have won the 71 series.
But that straw and Giffords piece ignores the relative strengths of the two teams.
By 71 the AB's were coming (had come) to the end of one of their most successful eras ever.
An era built on forward dominance but that under the innovation of Fred Allen had redefined the game on the 67 tour so that it resembled something like the modern game in terms of interplay between forwards and backs and skills etc
The Needle had gone and been replaced by Vodanovich an old school coach who was suspicious of airy fairyness and favoured 9 man rugby with Going as the playmaker.
The lions reputation for open running was built around their demolition of our provincial sides.
they beat wtn by 38 points, Maori by 11 (midweek) Akl in the game before the 3rd test and were the only Lions side to go undefeated against the provinces.
Come the tests they were up against an aging AB side that didn't have a lot of pace and should have won the first test in Dunedin more comfortably.
They underestimated us in the 2nd and were well beaten so they figured to play safety first because they knew they had the measure of our forwards and didn't really rate our backs - amd who can blame them
For the record these are the backs who started the last 2 tests
Laurie Mains, Bruce Hunter, Howard Joseph, Wayne Cottrell, Ken Carrington, Bob Burgess (rep Mick Duncan), Sid Going,
Laurie Mains, Ken Carrington, Mick Duncan, Phil Gard, Bryan Williams, Wayne Cottrell, Sid Going
Decidedly average
Lions: Williams, Gerald Davies, Dawes (c), Gibson, Duckham, John, Edwards
Nearly 50 years later I reckon every Kiwi that follows rugby to any extent recognizes all those Lions names. I went to the 4th test and theres 2 AB names I don't know
I had to look up Gard, Duncan and Joseph. They played 5 tests between them. All debuted against the Lions. None ever capped again
@dogmeat But it's not an article, it's an opinion piece, so that means it doesn't have to be correct.
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@Bovidae said in 1993 Lions tour:
The 1971 tour was before my time but I was interested to read Phil Gifford's opinion piece on the tour, and in particular the myth that the Lions backs were the difference in that series.
Jeez Giffords article was all over the place
Whilst technically correct his piece about the Lions ignores the tone of the tour
I myself used to take solace in the fact that if tries had been worth 4 points (introduced the next year) we would have won the 71 series.
But that straw and Giffords piece ignores the relative strengths of the two teams.
By 71 the AB's were coming (had come) to the end of one of their most successful eras ever.
An era built on forward dominance but that under the innovation of Fred Allen had redefined the game on the 67 tour so that it resembled something like the modern game in terms of interplay between forwards and backs and skills etc
The Needle had gone and been replaced by Vodanovich an old school coach who was suspicious of airy fairyness and favoured 9 man rugby with Going as the playmaker.
The lions reputation for open running was built around their demolition of our provincial sides.
they beat wtn by 38 points, Maori by 11 (midweek) Akl in the game before the 3rd test and were the only Lions side to go undefeated against the provinces.
Come the tests they were up against an aging AB side that didn't have a lot of pace and should have won the first test in Dunedin more comfortably.
They underestimated us in the 2nd and were well beaten so they figured to play safety first because they knew they had the measure of our forwards and didn't really rate our backs - amd who can blame them
For the record these are the backs who started the last 2 tests
Laurie Mains, Bruce Hunter, Howard Joseph, Wayne Cottrell, Ken Carrington, Bob Burgess (rep Mick Duncan), Sid Going,
Laurie Mains, Ken Carrington, Mick Duncan, Phil Gard, Bryan Williams, Wayne Cottrell, Sid Going
Decidedly average
Lions: Williams, Gerald Davies, Dawes (c), Gibson, Duckham, John, Edwards
Nearly 50 years later I reckon every Kiwi that follows rugby to any extent recognizes all those Lions names. I went to the 4th test and theres 2 AB names I don't know
I had to look up Gard, Duncan and Joseph. They played 5 tests between them. All debuted against the Lions. None ever capped again
