Americas Cup
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@crucial said in Americas Cup:
Can someone who actually knows about this sailing stuff explain why the boat entering the start at a disadvantage doesn’t just go and do their own thing on the other side? Sure the first boat gets give way advantage but you could be steaming at the line full tit on opposite tack and make them do a move to cover.
Not a sailer, but I THINK the wind generally tends to favour one side or other, so both teams want to race on the 'good' side. Position themselves accordingly at start.
But if wind fairly mixed can’t see the boat behind wouldn’t try it.
Just a theory though!
@pakman said in Americas Cup:
@crucial said in Americas Cup:
Can someone who actually knows about this sailing stuff explain why the boat entering the start at a disadvantage doesn’t just go and do their own thing on the other side? Sure the first boat gets give way advantage but you could be steaming at the line full tit on opposite tack and make them do a move to cover.
Not a sailer, but I THINK the wind generally tends to favour one side or other, so both teams want to race on the 'good' side. Position themselves accordingly at start.
But if wind fairly mixed can’t see the boat behind wouldn’t try it.
Just a theory though!
They always go to the same side though. I get that you are trying to force the other boat into a position but it rarely happens.
I just thought that all these newly forged experts would know.
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IIRC, if you include the pre-Christmas racing there were a few instances where the boat not winning the start won the race, however since the challenger series, winning the start has been the winning of the race hasnt it?
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IIRC, if you include the pre-Christmas racing there were a few instances where the boat not winning the start won the race, however since the challenger series, winning the start has been the winning of the race hasnt it?
@taniwharugby said in Americas Cup:
IIRC, if you include the pre-Christmas racing there were a few instances where the boat not winning the start won the race, however since the challenger series, winning the start has been the winning of the race hasnt it?
I think those early wins by the trailing boat were due to fuckups by the team on the leading boat where they executed a maneuver poorly or where there was a significant wind shift, particularly in the lighter conditions where some boats just couldn't get up on the foils
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Tamaki Strait course is going to reinforce the win the start win the race phenomenon as the wind is less flukey and / or affected by landmass.
Once we move to Level 1 and back on to the stadia courses we may see some lead changes.
I don't think we can read anything into yesterday's racing. Wind wasn't of a range that was expected to favour either boat. Both teams made minor mistakes that meant they lost the start. Both leaders probably sailed within themselves.
As someone who has never been above 18 knots in a yacht and that was surfing down the face of a big wave the fact that they get to over 50 still blows me away. I saw a Toyota outside TNZ HQ at the weekend with a sticker that said sailing an AC75 is like driving this ute down the motorway at 95kph with the windows down - in the rain. I reckon that is a massive understatement
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@mn5 said in Americas Cup:
Anyway I digress, after yarning with some randoms I’m pretty much a yachting expert.
It's amazing how you get to 2021 and it turns out that everyone got more than 80% in School Cert. Science - or if they didn't they were fucking ripped off!
@chris-b said in Americas Cup:
@mn5 said in Americas Cup:
Anyway I digress, after yarning with some randoms I’m pretty much a yachting expert.
It's amazing how you get to 2021 and it turns out that everyone got more than 80% in School Cert. Science - or if they didn't they were fucking ripped off!
I didn’t and I wasn’t. Like Maths I was strongly encouraged to give up Science after a pitiful School C result, I think it was the one subject I failed
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@pakman said in Americas Cup:
@crucial said in Americas Cup:
Can someone who actually knows about this sailing stuff explain why the boat entering the start at a disadvantage doesn’t just go and do their own thing on the other side? Sure the first boat gets give way advantage but you could be steaming at the line full tit on opposite tack and make them do a move to cover.
Not a sailer, but I THINK the wind generally tends to favour one side or other, so both teams want to race on the 'good' side. Position themselves accordingly at start.
But if wind fairly mixed can’t see the boat behind wouldn’t try it.
Just a theory though!
They always go to the same side though. I get that you are trying to force the other boat into a position but it rarely happens.
I just thought that all these newly forged experts would know.@crucial said in Americas Cup:
@pakman said in Americas Cup:
@crucial said in Americas Cup:
Can someone who actually knows about this sailing stuff explain why the boat entering the start at a disadvantage doesn’t just go and do their own thing on the other side? Sure the first boat gets give way advantage but you could be steaming at the line full tit on opposite tack and make them do a move to cover.
Not a sailer, but I THINK the wind generally tends to favour one side or other, so both teams want to race on the 'good' side. Position themselves accordingly at start.
But if wind fairly mixed can’t see the boat behind wouldn’t try it.
Just a theory though!
They always go to the same side though. I get that you are trying to force the other boat into a position but it rarely happens.
I just thought that all these newly forged experts would know.they do split pretty often but its a real case of which is worse, the weak side of the course or sail in dirty wind and have your movements dictated, and the decision will depend on how weak the other side is or how well the Opposition is tacking on top
we saw yesterday ENTZ sailed in the dirty air for much longer you might normally just because LR tacked a touch too early (seconds) and so weren't right on top, if they had nailed it ETNZ would more than likely have tacked off to the other side.
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@chris-b said in Americas Cup:
@mn5 said in Americas Cup:
Anyway I digress, after yarning with some randoms I’m pretty much a yachting expert.
It's amazing how you get to 2021 and it turns out that everyone got more than 80% in School Cert. Science - or if they didn't they were fucking ripped off!
I didn’t and I wasn’t. Like Maths I was strongly encouraged to give up Science after a pitiful School C result, I think it was the one subject I failed
@mn5 Hardly anyone did when I was at school. And even if you did there was one-fifth of the stuff that you were being spoon-fed that you didn't properly understand.
But, pretty much everyone seems to be a science expert these days.
Which doesn't have much to do with you or the America's Cup and probably belongs more in the Grumpy old men thread!
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@mn5 Hardly anyone did when I was at school. And even if you did there was one-fifth of the stuff that you were being spoon-fed that you didn't properly understand.
But, pretty much everyone seems to be a science expert these days.
Which doesn't have much to do with you or the America's Cup and probably belongs more in the Grumpy old men thread!
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Does the start order reverse each sailing day in the batch of two races or alternate each race?
If the series continues that with two evenly matched boats the start winner wins we would have the deciding advantage in the 13th race.
So the onus is on LR to force a mistake from NZ either in the pre-start or race. -
Does the start order reverse each sailing day in the batch of two races or alternate each race?
If the series continues that with two evenly matched boats the start winner wins we would have the deciding advantage in the 13th race.
So the onus is on LR to force a mistake from NZ either in the pre-start or race.@crucial said in Americas Cup:
Does the start order reverse each sailing day in the batch of two races or alternate each race?
This link shows the sequence for each race day (click on the date).
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@mn5 said in Americas Cup:
Went to meet a couple of mates in the CBD for a beer, holy shit has anyone seen the cost of parking in the city these days ?
Anyway I digress, after yarning with some randoms I’m pretty much a yachting expert. Talk about exciting stuff, it’s like Horse racing except good.
If there’s a bandwagon I’m signing up.
I was thinking this earlier this afternoon... has any sport ever been better at turning millions of people from completely ignorant into sudden pub-experts so quickly?
Everyone's so fucking quick to jump in to prove that they know what VMG means, and talk about minimising tacks, and how foiling works, with extravagant hand gestures and shit.
Not realising it's all WWF/WWE style “sports entertainment” for grown-ups. Really... sailing faster than the wind... the driving force. Fucking idiot-sheeple.@kruse said in Americas Cup:
@mn5 said in Americas Cup:
Went to meet a couple of mates in the CBD for a beer, holy shit has anyone seen the cost of parking in the city these days ?
Anyway I digress, after yarning with some randoms I’m pretty much a yachting expert. Talk about exciting stuff, it’s like Horse racing except good.
If there’s a bandwagon I’m signing up.
I was thinking this earlier this afternoon... has any sport ever been better at turning millions of people from completely ignorant into sudden pub-experts so quickly?
Everyone's so fucking quick to jump in to prove that they know what VMG means, and talk about minimising tacks, and how foiling works, with extravagant hand gestures and shit.
Not realising it's all WWF/WWE style “sports entertainment” for grown-ups. Really... sailing faster than the wind... the driving force. Fucking idiot-sheeple.Your post sums it up very well, the wank speak I was hearing from people at the pub was absolutely cringeworthy.
I get that it is exciting ( yes even I will admit that ) but man up and admit you don’t know what the fuck you’re on about with all your terminology.
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If we want to find a positive yesterday, TNZ won by a comfortable 31 secs when leading all the way while Luna Rossa had their lead cut to 7 secs on the last leg when in front.
A 1-1 scoreline after Day 1 is good for the AC.
@bovidae said in Americas Cup:
If we want to find a positive yesterday, TNZ won by a comfortable 31 secs when leading all the way while Luna Rossa had their lead cut to 7 secs on the last leg when in front.
A 1-1 scoreline after Day 1 is good for the AC.
I just watched the highlights, but I thought the reduced margin in the race Luna Rossa won was because they made a couple of odd tacks during the race, allowing NZ to catch up. In other words, there as no difference in boat speed. I hope I am wrong.
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@crucial said in Americas Cup:
Does the start order reverse each sailing day in the batch of two races or alternate each race?
This link shows the sequence for each race day (click on the date).
@bovidae said in Americas Cup:
@crucial said in Americas Cup:
Does the start order reverse each sailing day in the batch of two races or alternate each race?
This link shows the sequence for each race day (click on the date).
Doesn’t work properly on iPad. Will check on desktop. Thanks
Edit: so they rotate on a race day basis. Eg port entry yesterday went NZ then LR. Tomorrow is goes LR then NZ. NZ still gets the deciding race should it go that far.
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@chris-b General Science wasn't even an option for us at School C. You had to specialise.
I bet @Snowy took Biology - and worked after school in the Butchery Department at Foodtown (as was).
Sailings more physics anyway.
@dogmeat said in Americas Cup:
@chris-b General Science wasn't even an option for us at School C. You had to specialise.
I bet @Snowy took Biology - and worked after school in the Butchery Department at Foodtown (as was).
Sailings more physics anyway.
What is this "general science" nonsense.
Applied maths, pure maths, chemistry, and the gold of them all, physics which a lot more people should have studied if they want to be an Americas Cup snob.Biology has always been more of an hobby for me.
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@dogmeat said in Americas Cup:
@chris-b General Science wasn't even an option for us at School C. You had to specialise.
I bet @Snowy took Biology - and worked after school in the Butchery Department at Foodtown (as was).
Sailings more physics anyway.
What is this "general science" nonsense.
Applied maths, pure maths, chemistry, and the gold of them all, physics which a lot more people should have studied if they want to be an Americas Cup snob.Biology has always been more of an hobby for me.
@snowy I wish I'd done physics, but at 14 I thought School C was going to be tough so I choose the subjects that I thought I'd do best at. My maths teacher in Form 4 was the phys ed teacher so I avoided the hard sciences. Put me on a path of spouting bullshit for the rest of my life.
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@dogmeat said in Americas Cup:
@chris-b General Science wasn't even an option for us at School C. You had to specialise.
I bet @Snowy took Biology - and worked after school in the Butchery Department at Foodtown (as was).
Sailings more physics anyway.
What is this "general science" nonsense.
Applied maths, pure maths, chemistry, and the gold of them all, physics which a lot more people should have studied if they want to be an Americas Cup snob.Biology has always been more of an hobby for me.
@snowy said in Americas Cup:
Applied maths, pure maths, chemistry, and the gold of them all, physics
Physics is the ugly sister of pure maths. Her popularity is based on her low morals.
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@snowy I wish I'd done physics, but at 14 I thought School C was going to be tough so I choose the subjects that I thought I'd do best at. My maths teacher in Form 4 was the phys ed teacher so I avoided the hard sciences. Put me on a path of spouting bullshit for the rest of my life.
@dogmeat said in Americas Cup:
Put me on a path of spouting bullshit for the rest of my life.
You do fit in well here - particularly in an Americas cup thread.
@antipodean said in Americas Cup:
Physics is the ugly sister of pure maths. Her popularity is based on her low morals.
I was going to take umbrage with that, but when I was doing school C, low morals in a girl would win over purity every time. They still do really, so you are quite correct.
Did anyone answer @Crucial 's question about the starts earlier and one boat basically ignoring the other one? The chess game of match racing is beyond my comfort zone, I'd rather talk about the hydro and aero dynamics of that slut physics. Some on here even call her a witch, but it is worth noting that the prestart dial up does seem very different when doing 45 knots compared to 12. You basically get one shot at the opponent and is win or lose. Generally lose if you are on the unfavoured side.
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@dogmeat said in Americas Cup:
Put me on a path of spouting bullshit for the rest of my life.
You do fit in well here - particularly in an Americas cup thread.
@antipodean said in Americas Cup:
Physics is the ugly sister of pure maths. Her popularity is based on her low morals.
I was going to take umbrage with that, but when I was doing school C, low morals in a girl would win over purity every time. They still do really, so you are quite correct.
Did anyone answer @Crucial 's question about the starts earlier and one boat basically ignoring the other one? The chess game of match racing is beyond my comfort zone, I'd rather talk about the hydro and aero dynamics of that slut physics. Some on here even call her a witch, but it is worth noting that the prestart dial up does seem very different when doing 45 knots compared to 12. You basically get one shot at the opponent and is win or lose. Generally lose if you are on the unfavoured side.
@snowy I guess if you lose the start and the wind is not wildly shifting the better risk reward is to stay in touch and see if you can pressure the leading crew into making a mistake rather than going for the all on black option of taking the less favoured side of the course.
If starts do remain the critical race decider we may see more sailing off on your own as the match progresses, but then the leading boat just covers.
The perceived 'wisdom' after only two races
is that LR is more manoueverable and thus will come out better in a tacking duel. It didn't seem that way to me in the last upwind leg yesterday.All that physics stuff was the dark arts when I was sailing, look at the water, look at the sky, stay between the other boat and the mark - pretend you know what you're doing and don't fuck up.
