BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?)
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the maori backline had plenty of x-factor, that didn't work out so well.
a fair bit of that was to do with the forwards, but a fair bit was also due to their shit kicking, shit handling of the high ball, and high error rate. but x factor, oh shit, they had loads of it. if only they hadn't been under pressure and had been playing against chumps... they could have x-factored their way to a hundred i reckon.fuck i hope we don't go down the path of chip kicks. against a well-organised rush defence (which they have) with a good halfback, fullback and loosies (which they have), they just aren't a high percentage play, and give the ball away too often. then we don't have the ball and are relying on them to make errors so we can score off turnovers. the basic idea ought to be that they can't rush if they're back-pedalling, so we need to get momentum / make breaks in close to buy the time to make breaks wider out.
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The thing which has to be understood about the Saracens rush defence, which is what I believe Farrell (A) has based Lions D on, is that kicking is a huge component. It is most designed to accumulate penalties when frustrated oppositions attempt to force things in their own half.
The game management skills of opposition 10 are key. On slow ball in own half where Lions have got the rush on 10 needs to kick long and have chasers. DMac and Beaver didn't manage this well.
Lions reply will be high balls and disciplined chasers: hence Gats concern with blocking.
From fast rucks, ball movement is the rush's Achilles' Heel. For example, spreading out means compromising close in D (check out early parts ABs v Ireland in 2013) so passes inside can work. Likewise a tendency to get narrow means double miss (Highlanders, etc.) can open them up wide.
Need for BB to make good decisions would be an argument for starting with Crotty, who is an excellent reader of the game.
On balance that's how I'd start, with SBW to come on around the 40. Seem to remember that working well previously!
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X factor? It's getting a bit weird here where people have completely blanked Crottys play the last year or two. The guy creates plenty of space in the midfield with guile and isn't exactly incapable of making yards up the middle. Plus his combo with ALB was fantastic for the ABs.
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The AB forward pack is good enough to handle the Lions forwards. We have a strong set piece which has allowed us to score try's. I think we will take them on up front and pick go around the ruck which gets the backs on their heels and then we can go wide.
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@Frye said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
@mariner4life said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
The Lions aren't going to squash our forwards like they did to the Maori, and last night as well. The Blues, while early in the tour, matched them up front (and even shaded them in certain areas) but were able to break the Lions open with skill. That last try to win it was fucking great, but also high risk on a couple of occasions.
I am not overly concerned about the need for a rock solid defensive midfield, as i don't think they are bringing anything any of our midfield options would be able to deal with. However someone who can unlock that rush defense with an in-contact offload would be invaluable.
Something has gone badly wrong if we are relying on that level of magic to win this test. I'm surprised to hear the "x" word popup considering the dark days we used to live in, where the ball would be shoveled out to our flair players in a vain hope that they did something with it.
And we risk then being beaten like the Crusaders. And not win like the Blues.
Beauden has shown all season he needs space. He ain't going to get it.
Our wingers, assuming we go with Dagg and Julian will struggle to break the line just man on man (Savea will bend it, sure, but not break it).
So where are our tries coming from? I think we need real threats in midfield. If we drop an offload, they are unlikely to pounce fast enough to matter, but if they stick we should be able to convert.
The Crusaders found that no matter how good your forwards, lack of real penetration in the backs will have us lose.
@Chester-Draws said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
@Frye said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
@mariner4life said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
The Lions aren't going to squash our forwards like they did to the Maori, and last night as well. The Blues, while early in the tour, matched them up front (and even shaded them in certain areas) but were able to break the Lions open with skill. That last try to win it was fucking great, but also high risk on a couple of occasions.
I am not overly concerned about the need for a rock solid defensive midfield, as i don't think they are bringing anything any of our midfield options would be able to deal with. However someone who can unlock that rush defense with an in-contact offload would be invaluable.
Something has gone badly wrong if we are relying on that level of magic to win this test. I'm surprised to hear the "x" word popup considering the dark days we used to live in, where the ball would be shoveled out to our flair players in a vain hope that they did something with it.
And we risk then being beaten like the Crusaders. And not win like the Blues.
Beauden has shown all season he needs space. He ain't going to get it.
Our wingers, assuming we go with Dagg and Julian will struggle to break the line just man on man (Savea will bend it, sure, but not break it).
So where are our tries coming from? I think we need real threats in midfield. If we drop an offload, they are unlikely to pounce fast enough to matter, but if they stick we should be able to convert.
The Crusaders found that no matter how good your forwards, lack of real penetration in the backs will have us lose.
The Crusaders did create limited opportunities through our young centre Goodhue, we just didn't finish them off. But I agree we didn't make enough of them and that is where we sorely missed Crotty. He does create the space and he (and Todd) really know how to keep the ball alive.
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is it just me , or does this gatland coached side remind you of the boks of a few years ago ,
the rush defense , and plenty of up and unders with chasers
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I actually think its a blessing in disguise the Crusaders got showed up by the Lions ,
Im expecting a few of our tight forwards go into this game with a point to prove
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is it just me , or does this gatland coached side remind you of the boks of a few years ago ,
the rush defense , and plenty of up and unders with chasers
@kiwiinmelb The 2009 Boks? Yes.
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is it just me , or does this gatland coached side remind you of the boks of a few years ago ,
the rush defense , and plenty of up and unders with chasers
@kiwiinmelb said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
is it just me , or does this gatland coached side remind you of the boks of a few years ago ,
the rush defense , and plenty of up and unders with chasers
Or the ABs under Henry when our up and under kick and chase game putting defensive pressure on the opponent was one of our main attacking weapons.
It's hard to say really given the midweek Lions team has played different to the Saturday teams. And even then the two Saturday games were played quite different given conditions.
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X factor? It's getting a bit weird here where people have completely blanked Crottys play the last year or two. The guy creates plenty of space in the midfield with guile and isn't exactly incapable of making yards up the middle. Plus his combo with ALB was fantastic for the ABs.
@Bones said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
X factor? It's getting a bit weird here where people have completely blanked Crottys play the last year or two. The guy creates plenty of space in the midfield with guile and isn't exactly incapable of making yards up the middle. Plus his combo with ALB was fantastic for the ABs.
I only have SBW starting as he has fitness and form in the last two matches, whereas Crotty is coming back from an (admittedly) short-term injury, but an injury nonetheless. I had Crotty starting originally but I think SBW has done enough to warrant a start. I want Crotty on the bench though.
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is it just me , or does this gatland coached side remind you of the boks of a few years ago ,
the rush defense , and plenty of up and unders with chasers
@kiwiinmelb And if Elliott Daley is selected, their very own Francois Stern to knock over 60m kicks
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@Chester-Draws said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
The Crusaders found that no matter how good your forwards, lack of real penetration in the backs will have us lose.
I'd say though that every back in the ABs is a level or two above teh Crusaders. Except maybe Dagg.
Also don't forget the Saders loosies and backs are used to getting ball on a plate by the outstanding tight 5. So if they don't get clear dominance, then it's a bit unfamiliar. The Blues, on the other hand, are well used to shite ball.
Also, Aaron Smith>> Bryn Hall. Flat passes to SBW with runners ... you know yuo want it
Throw in a bit of yelling about offside, and boom. Two tries and we should get enoguh penalties to win@nzzp said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
@Chester-Draws said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
The Crusaders found that no matter how good your forwards, lack of real penetration in the backs will have us lose.
I'd say though that every back in the ABs is a level or two above teh Crusaders. Except maybe Dagg.
Also don't forget the Saders loosies and backs are used to getting ball on a plate by the outstanding tight 5. So if they don't get clear dominance, then it's a bit unfamiliar. The Blues, on the other hand, are well used to shite ball.
Also, Aaron Smith>> Bryn Hall. Flat passes to SBW with runners ... you know yuo want it
Throw in a bit of yelling about offside, and boom. Two tries and we should get enoguh penalties to winWell yes you're right Dagg is not above Dagg...
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@cgrant said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
It's going to rain on Saturday : good news for Gatland and the BIL !
It is meant to be showers isn't it up until 12ish then clear off to a fine afternoon/evening? I know it's Auckland and that might all change at the drop of a hat.
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@Bones said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
X factor? It's getting a bit weird here where people have completely blanked Crottys play the last year or two. The guy creates plenty of space in the midfield with guile and isn't exactly incapable of making yards up the middle. Plus his combo with ALB was fantastic for the ABs.
I only have SBW starting as he has fitness and form in the last two matches, whereas Crotty is coming back from an (admittedly) short-term injury, but an injury nonetheless. I had Crotty starting originally but I think SBW has done enough to warrant a start. I want Crotty on the bench though.
@No-Quarter said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
@Bones said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
X factor? It's getting a bit weird here where people have completely blanked Crottys play the last year or two. The guy creates plenty of space in the midfield with guile and isn't exactly incapable of making yards up the middle. Plus his combo with ALB was fantastic for the ABs.
I only have SBW starting as he has fitness and form in the last two matches, whereas Crotty is coming back from an (admittedly) short-term injury, but an injury nonetheless. I had Crotty starting originally but I think SBW has done enough to warrant a start. I want Crotty on the bench though.
Pretty sure the selectors have made it clear they prefer returning incumbents to start, where they're less of a liability than off the bench.
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I'm not sure why things have swung to the point where we are starting with the BI impregnable rush defence & box kicking and working back from there?
Even if their plan is relatively successful it is still a bit of a high wire act that relies on total accuracy off the boot, in the chase and off the line. A big difference between '08 Boks and this lot is the Lions don't own the lineout so NZ will always have a release valve even if everything is custard.
Speaking of custard - if the rush defence does prove to be an issue - Hansen will have up his sleeve the ability to push Barrett back to 15 in the second half circa 2014-15 to create space. SBW poses his own unique challenges for the rush as we saw in the RWC final.
Is there a read on Cruden vs Sopoaga off the bench? Seems to be Lima based on last week - but you would think Cruden would have been released if third banana?
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I'm not sure why things have swung to the point where we are starting with the BI impregnable rush defence & box kicking and working back from there?
Even if their plan is relatively successful it is still a bit of a high wire act that relies on total accuracy off the boot, in the chase and off the line. A big difference between '08 Boks and this lot is the Lions don't own the lineout so NZ will always have a release valve even if everything is custard.
Speaking of custard - if the rush defence does prove to be an issue - Hansen will have up his sleeve the ability to push Barrett back to 15 in the second half circa 2014-15 to create space. SBW poses his own unique challenges for the rush as we saw in the RWC final.
Is there a read on Cruden vs Sopoaga off the bench? Seems to be Lima based on last week - but you would think Cruden would have been released if third banana?
