All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2
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Dagg was basically left to take all of our high balls. I think Beauden took the odd one but Dagg showed a lot of leadership in that aspect. He only dropped one or two. His one on one defence isn't that great and I always rated Faletau to get by him. I think overall Dagg had a good game - I was bit frustrated we didn't use his boot more.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@reprobate We'll never know TBF. But considering we had ALB packing down on every scrum bar one and we barely ever had a set backline I don't think we needed to do it.
I thought ALB only packed down on our feed.
There was only one scrum at the end that I can actually remember him not packing down - but then I may have missed him not being there on the other scrums.
@Nepia said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@reprobate We'll never know TBF. But considering we had ALB packing down on every scrum bar one and we barely ever had a set backline I don't think we needed to do it.
I thought ALB only packed down on our feed.
There was only one scrum at the end that I can actually remember him not packing down - but then I may have missed him not being there on the other scrums.
They won a penalty in a scrum earlier in the game I think versus our 7 man scrum. We got penalised for wheeling.
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Very disappointed by the lack of go forward this week compared to last the backrow didnt show up in my opinion especially in the first 20. Cane excepted.
So is it illegal to tackle a player that's in the air diving for the line now too? So you can jump over the line and no one is allowed to touch you? Unbelievable rule.
Lions deserved the win but this just proves you can't go into a game without a kicker who can get the job done. Need a rethink at first five against this type of opposition and those conditions.
@LagerLout said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
So is it illegal to tackle a player that's in the air diving for the line now too? So you can jump over the line and no one is allowed to touch you? Unbelievable rule.
It's not a rule or a law for that matter. It's an interpretation. Incorrect but fish and chip paper now
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@Nepia said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@reprobate We'll never know TBF. But considering we had ALB packing down on every scrum bar one and we barely ever had a set backline I don't think we needed to do it.
I thought ALB only packed down on our feed.
There was only one scrum at the end that I can actually remember him not packing down - but then I may have missed him not being there on the other scrums.
They won a penalty in a scrum earlier in the game I think versus our 7 man scrum. We got penalised for wheeling.
@hydro11 said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@reprobate We'll never know TBF. But considering we had ALB packing down on every scrum bar one and we barely ever had a set backline I don't think we needed to do it.
I thought ALB only packed down on our feed.
There was only one scrum at the end that I can actually remember him not packing down - but then I may have missed him not being there on the other scrums.
They won a penalty in a scrum earlier in the game I think versus our 7 man scrum. We got penalised for wheeling.
That was on a Lions feed
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@scruffy-lookin said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@hydro11 Are you a scapegoat when it's your fault? Isn't that just being held responsible? SBW farked up royally and has form of doing exactly the same thing in big games. I'm all for letting players learn from their mistakes and come back better but I would be OK with him being dropped.
Some people are saying he should never play again. Fair enough saying that tonight but I hope people don't say that in a month's time. I hope people can move forward.
@hydro11 said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@scruffy-lookin said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@hydro11 Are you a scapegoat when it's your fault? Isn't that just being held responsible? SBW farked up royally and has form of doing exactly the same thing in big games. I'm all for letting players learn from their mistakes and come back better but I would be OK with him being dropped.
Some people are saying he should never play again. Fair enough saying that tonight but I hope people don't say that in a month's time. I hope people can move forward.
I'm happy to stand by the comments I made in the thread. I'm no longer supporting his inclusion as a member of the All Blacks. Hes not worth the risk, as he clearly can't control his actions with respect to the laws.
Those stupid actions used to result in YCs, but now they equal RCs. The benefit he brings, ahead of Crotty or Laumape is, IMO, no longer worth it.
I said the same thing about Nonu in 2006-2007 but he came back and earned his way back in by showing that he could be trusted. In SBW's case, I think he needs to show, overwhelmingly, that he can be trusted before he gets another test in black. The moment he, intentionally (IMO) carried out that shoulder charge, I think he lost whatever credibility he has to be the senior midfield figure. I'd rather use Crotty and start investing game time in Goodhue.
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@hydro11 said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@reprobate We'll never know TBF. But considering we had ALB packing down on every scrum bar one and we barely ever had a set backline I don't think we needed to do it.
I thought ALB only packed down on our feed.
There was only one scrum at the end that I can actually remember him not packing down - but then I may have missed him not being there on the other scrums.
They won a penalty in a scrum earlier in the game I think versus our 7 man scrum. We got penalised for wheeling.
That was on a Lions feed
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@hydro11 said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@reprobate We'll never know TBF. But considering we had ALB packing down on every scrum bar one and we barely ever had a set backline I don't think we needed to do it.
I thought ALB only packed down on our feed.
There was only one scrum at the end that I can actually remember him not packing down - but then I may have missed him not being there on the other scrums.
They won a penalty in a scrum earlier in the game I think versus our 7 man scrum. We got penalised for wheeling.
That was on a Lions feed
I think Nepia was saying the we only went with a 7 man scrum once on either team's feed. Apologies if I misunderstood. We definitely went with 8 the whole time on our feed, as far as I remember.
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@scruffy-lookin said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@hydro11 Are you a scapegoat when it's your fault? Isn't that just being held responsible? SBW farked up royally and has form of doing exactly the same thing in big games. I'm all for letting players learn from their mistakes and come back better but I would be OK with him being dropped.
Some people are saying he should never play again. Fair enough saying that tonight but I hope people don't say that in a month's time. I hope people can move forward.
@hydro11 said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@scruffy-lookin said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@hydro11 Are you a scapegoat when it's your fault? Isn't that just being held responsible? SBW farked up royally and has form of doing exactly the same thing in big games. I'm all for letting players learn from their mistakes and come back better but I would be OK with him being dropped.
Some people are saying he should never play again. Fair enough saying that tonight but I hope people don't say that in a month's time. I hope people can move forward.
I would prefer he doesn't play for the ABs again, and that view is unlikely to change. He's getting on in age, is inconsistent, prone to massive brain fades and we have better talent coming through in the centres. I think he's led a pretty charmed life in NZ rugby to date.
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Have to ask, curious penalty against the AB's for "offside" when Smith was box kicking - since when have refs seen that as a penalty? But more importantly - why was there only one penalty for that in a match where it happened every time there was a box kick?
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@hydro11 said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@scruffy-lookin said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@hydro11 Are you a scapegoat when it's your fault? Isn't that just being held responsible? SBW farked up royally and has form of doing exactly the same thing in big games. I'm all for letting players learn from their mistakes and come back better but I would be OK with him being dropped.
Some people are saying he should never play again. Fair enough saying that tonight but I hope people don't say that in a month's time. I hope people can move forward.
I'm happy to stand by the comments I made in the thread. I'm no longer supporting his inclusion as a member of the All Blacks. Hes not worth the risk, as he clearly can't control his actions with respect to the laws.
Those stupid actions used to result in YCs, but now they equal RCs. The benefit he brings, ahead of Crotty or Laumape is, IMO, no longer worth it.
I said the same thing about Nonu in 2006-2007 but he came back and earned his way back in by showing that he could be trusted. In SBW's case, I think he needs to show, overwhelmingly, that he can be trusted before he gets another test in black. The moment he, intentionally (IMO) carried out that shoulder charge, I think he lost whatever credibility he has to be the senior midfield figure. I'd rather use Crotty and start investing game time in Goodhue.
@gt12 said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@hydro11 said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@scruffy-lookin said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@hydro11 Are you a scapegoat when it's your fault? Isn't that just being held responsible? SBW farked up royally and has form of doing exactly the same thing in big games. I'm all for letting players learn from their mistakes and come back better but I would be OK with him being dropped.
Some people are saying he should never play again. Fair enough saying that tonight but I hope people don't say that in a month's time. I hope people can move forward.
I'm happy to stand by the comments I made in the thread. I'm no longer supporting his inclusion as a member of the All Blacks. Hes not worth the risk, as he clearly can't control his actions with respect to the laws.
Those stupid actions used to result in YCs, but now they equal RCs. The benefit he brings, ahead of Crotty or Laumape is, IMO, no longer worth it.
I said the same thing about Nonu in 2006-2007 but he came back and earned his way back in by showing that he could be trusted. In SBW's case, I think he needs to show, overwhelmingly, that he can be trusted before he gets another test in black. The moment he, intentionally (IMO) carried out that shoulder charge, I think he lost whatever credibility he has to be the senior midfield figure. I'd rather use Crotty and start investing game time in Goodhue.
That's a fair enough opinion. I suppose I should say that I hope SBW isn't booed in a black jersey and that people who feel that way still support him when he is playing.
Most of what you have said is true - SBW is a risk. That was also true before today though. I mean he come on and got a yellow card in 2011 vs Australia at Eden Park. We were up 20-6 at that stage but it was such a stupid action. I still think SBW, at his best, offers something that other players don't. I really want that strong runner at 12. Right now, Moala, SBW and Laumape are those options and the other two don't have the complete game. Of course, there is also Ngatai (and Crotty isn't a bad choice either). I think SBW is the only 12 who sets up that try for Ihaia West, as an example.
SBW is still worth it for me right now. I don't expect him to start at 12 in 2019 though.
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I have had a couple of cracks and no bites at this so last go. The only player concussed was Naholo by a short arm forearm to the head by O'Brien. If was in Australia that replay would have been on high rotation until the game was stopped. No penalty we were up 18-9 and they scored in th next phase of play....just saying that for consistency in the game, this one was missed.
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LOL, UK commentators saying that at 9 all at halftime against 14 players, this game is 50-50
@Stockcar86 said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
LOL, UK commentators saying that at 9 all at halftime against 14 players, this game is 50-50
They weren't far off!
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@gt12 said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@hydro11 said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@scruffy-lookin said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@hydro11 Are you a scapegoat when it's your fault? Isn't that just being held responsible? SBW farked up royally and has form of doing exactly the same thing in big games. I'm all for letting players learn from their mistakes and come back better but I would be OK with him being dropped.
Some people are saying he should never play again. Fair enough saying that tonight but I hope people don't say that in a month's time. I hope people can move forward.
I'm happy to stand by the comments I made in the thread. I'm no longer supporting his inclusion as a member of the All Blacks. Hes not worth the risk, as he clearly can't control his actions with respect to the laws.
Those stupid actions used to result in YCs, but now they equal RCs. The benefit he brings, ahead of Crotty or Laumape is, IMO, no longer worth it.
I said the same thing about Nonu in 2006-2007 but he came back and earned his way back in by showing that he could be trusted. In SBW's case, I think he needs to show, overwhelmingly, that he can be trusted before he gets another test in black. The moment he, intentionally (IMO) carried out that shoulder charge, I think he lost whatever credibility he has to be the senior midfield figure. I'd rather use Crotty and start investing game time in Goodhue.
That's a fair enough opinion. I suppose I should say that I hope SBW isn't booed in a black jersey and that people who feel that way still support him when he is playing.
Most of what you have said is true - SBW is a risk. That was also true before today though. I mean he come on and got a yellow card in 2011 vs Australia at Eden Park. We were up 20-6 at that stage but it was such a stupid action. I still think SBW, at his best, offers something that other players don't. I really want that strong runner at 12. Right now, Moala, SBW and Laumape are those options and the other two don't have the complete game. Of course, there is also Ngatai (and Crotty isn't a bad choice either). I think SBW is the only 12 who sets up that try for Ihaia West, as an example.
SBW is still worth it for me right now. I don't expect him to start at 12 in 2019 though.
@hydro11 I wouldn't expect SBW to be booed in Black but I expect there to be immense pressure if he is ever selected again. It's true he offers something that no other player does but if he can't control himself he can't be selected in big games and if he can't be selected in big games he can't play at all as the ABs are better off developing someone else.
It's not great because I would prefer that the ABs were able to utilise his skills but I don't see any way around it.
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Reading people saying SBW should never play for the All Blacks again makes me think of hysterical wimmin
@Siam said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
Reading people saying SBW should never play for the All Blacks again makes me think of hysterical wimmin
Agreed, seems to be a bit of losing the plot going on.
Also, re: TJP, I've just seen a front on shot of the Murray try and I think TJP has a case - I didn't see it on either of the replays when watching the game (had people over so couldn't do my usual rewind and watch again). He was being held, he had to jump out of the hold and moved away from the exact whole Murray ran into.
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I have had a couple of cracks and no bites at this so last go. The only player concussed was Naholo by a short arm forearm to the head by O'Brien. If was in Australia that replay would have been on high rotation until the game was stopped. No penalty we were up 18-9 and they scored in th next phase of play....just saying that for consistency in the game, this one was missed.
@kev Weird that they showed one replay and moved on but then I thought it was weird that Mako got a yellow when he led with the forearm to even up the score on BB.
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After some reflection on the ABs peformances some random thoughts:
- the pack was really good given the circumstances. All of them were buried in the tight all night covering the loss of Kaino. BBBR and Cane were paritcularly impressive.
- Naholo was really good, he was making big yards in close in the first half, was a big loss when he went off.
- Laumape was also really good, he should wear 12 next week because fuck SBW (I actually rate him higher now).
- Aaron Smith was good. @Crucial has called it all year and he is right about TJP, he lets his emotions dictate in niggly games like this. He didn't have a positive impact in the final 20 in terms of composure.
- Beauden wasn't total shit but I think the Carter vs Beauden debate was answered to a large degree. Carter thrived in games like that, Beauden has freakish skills but doesn't have the same leadership & game management Carter had.
- Ioane was quiet, didn't get any space for obvious reasons (SBW) but was hoping he'd impose himself a bit more. It's pretty close between him and Jules at the moment.
- Dagg is a better 14 than 15.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
Beauden wasn't total shit but I think the Carter vs Beauden debate was answered to a large degree. Carter thrived in games like that, Beauden has freakish skills but doesn't have the same leadership & game management Carter had.
Answered? Ones finished a long career, the other has tons of time.
One loss and typically we kiwis go off the deep end.
We'll be better next week, the rest of the team will step up, give him a platform and hopefully win from there!
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@Siam said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
Reading people saying SBW should never play for the All Blacks again makes me think of hysterical wimmin
Agreed, seems to be a bit of losing the plot going on.
Also, re: TJP, I've just seen a front on shot of the Murray try and I think TJP has a case - I didn't see it on either of the replays when watching the game (had people over so couldn't do my usual rewind and watch again). He was being held, he had to jump out of the hold and moved away from the exact whole Murray ran into.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@hydro11 said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@scruffy-lookin said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@hydro11 Are you a scapegoat when it's your fault? Isn't that just being held responsible? SBW farked up royally and has form of doing exactly the same thing in big games. I'm all for letting players learn from their mistakes and come back better but I would be OK with him being dropped.
Some people are saying he should never play again. Fair enough saying that tonight but I hope people don't say that in a month's time. I hope people can move forward.
I'm happy to stand by the comments I made in the thread. I'm no longer supporting his inclusion as a member of the All Blacks. Hes not worth the risk, as he clearly can't control his actions with respect to the laws.
Those stupid actions used to result in YCs, but now they equal RCs. The benefit he brings, ahead of Crotty or Laumape is, IMO, no longer worth it.
I said the same thing about Nonu in 2006-2007 but he came back and earned his way back in by showing that he could be trusted. In SBW's case, I think he needs to show, overwhelmingly, that he can be trusted before he gets another test in black. The moment he, intentionally (IMO) carried out that shoulder charge, I think he lost whatever credibility he has to be the senior midfield figure. I'd rather use Crotty and start investing game time in Goodhue.
That's a fair enough opinion. I suppose I should say that I hope SBW isn't booed in a black jersey and that people who feel that way still support him when he is playing.
Most of what you have said is true - SBW is a risk. That was also true before today though. I mean he come on and got a yellow card in 2011 vs Australia at Eden Park. We were up 20-6 at that stage but it was such a stupid action. I still think SBW, at his best, offers something that other players don't. I really want that strong runner at 12. Right now, Moala, SBW and Laumape are those options and the other two don't have the complete game. Of course, there is also Ngatai (and Crotty isn't a bad choice either). I think SBW is the only 12 who sets up that try for Ihaia West, as an example.
SBW is still worth it for me right now. I don't expect him to start at 12 in 2019 though.
I'll be happy to be proven wrong, but the part I like least is that he does this in big games. In the games where need him to be at his best, he's at his worst - it's only small decisions, but they are more costly than they used to be.
I agree that he won't be there in 2019, and he can't be trusted to be the ground gaining 2nd five without significant risk.
Now, if we use World according to Garp logic, he's been pre-disastered, so should be RC free for another 20 tests
But, I think he's a risk, and I just don't see the value in investing any more time in him in an AB jersey.
