All Black Squad for Rugby Championship
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I don't have an issue with how this has played out. Due process has not been denied. A set of arguments were put forth. The game of three halves is a concept match which I would've had doubts over as well.
The judicial review was allowed to happen and a different outcome has been achieved. It doesn't speak to competence or lack thereof when this happens. Just speaks to different views and interpretation. Happens on a regular basis in all areas of law including sport.
What will the coaches will do with Sonny. I think he will start with Crotty. ALB or Reiko on the bench
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I don't have an issue with how this has played out. Due process has not been denied. A set of arguments were put forth. The game of three halves is a concept match which I would've had doubts over as well.
The judicial review was allowed to happen and a different outcome has been achieved. It doesn't speak to competence or lack thereof when this happens. Just speaks to different views and interpretation. Happens on a regular basis in all areas of law including sport.
What will the coaches will do with Sonny. I think he will start with Crotty. ALB or Reiko on the bench
@ACT-Crusader I think the fact that the ban was handed down, and then only last week they decided to make a decision on whether the game of 3 halves constituted a real game was the issue.
Pretty sure the schedule of matches that SBW may have been eleigible to play in would have been known at the time of the ban, therefore to turn around weeks later and make decisions about the games he may have played in, is IMO incompetence.
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I do think that is either a silly blunder by Pichot or a slip that shows that WR expect their 'independent' panels to rule as their paymasters expect.
His response to people pointing this out only makes things worse. He had the opportunity to back down and admit that is was not a comment he should make but didn't.
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@ACT-Crusader I think the fact that the ban was handed down, and then only last week they decided to make a decision on whether the game of 3 halves constituted a real game was the issue.
Pretty sure the schedule of matches that SBW may have been eleigible to play in would have been known at the time of the ban, therefore to turn around weeks later and make decisions about the games he may have played in, is IMO incompetence.
@taniwharugby said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@ACT-Crusader I think the fact that the ban was handed down, and then only last week they decided to make a decision on whether the game of 3 halves constituted a real game was the issue.
Pretty sure the schedule of matches that SBW may have been eleigible to play in would have been known at the time of the ban, therefore to turn around weeks later and make decisions about the games he may have played in, is IMO incompetence.
There's a few assumptions in there TR.
Obviously it was a disputed issue around the games. That doesn't seem that unusual to me when one of those is this game of three halves which has more of a practice feel to it than anything. Now the status of that game appears to have been reviewed and given official status for the purposes of sanctions etc.
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So who and when was it determined that the game of three halves would have sanctions etc?
@ACT-Crusader said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
So who and when was it determined that the game of three halves would have sanctions etc?
Good question.
No one has to go to WR and ask permission to hold a game. My guess would be that in order to provide safeguards to player welfare the NZRU would do the usual stuff like appoint a ref and a citing framework under the guidelines. They couldn't really hold the game without them.Also, as an aside, the term 'Game of Three halves' is a marketing one. It is important to understand that no one team plays more than two halves of rugby. IMO it is a very clever solution to providing the ABs a decent hit-out while promoting provincial rugby.
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@taniwharugby said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@ACT-Crusader I think the fact that the ban was handed down, and then only last week they decided to make a decision on whether the game of 3 halves constituted a real game was the issue.
Pretty sure the schedule of matches that SBW may have been eleigible to play in would have been known at the time of the ban, therefore to turn around weeks later and make decisions about the games he may have played in, is IMO incompetence.
There's a few assumptions in there TR.
Obviously it was a disputed issue around the games. That doesn't seem that unusual to me when one of those is this game of three halves which has more of a practice feel to it than anything. Now the status of that game appears to have been reviewed and given official status for the purposes of sanctions etc.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@taniwharugby said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@ACT-Crusader I think the fact that the ban was handed down, and then only last week they decided to make a decision on whether the game of 3 halves constituted a real game was the issue.
Pretty sure the schedule of matches that SBW may have been eleigible to play in would have been known at the time of the ban, therefore to turn around weeks later and make decisions about the games he may have played in, is IMO incompetence.
There's a few assumptions in there TR.
Obviously it was a disputed issue around the games. That doesn't seem that unusual to me when one of those is this game of three halves which has more of a practice feel to it than anything. Now the status of that game appears to have been reviewed and given official status for the purposes of sanctions etc.
No, the citing procedures and refs for the game were in place well beofre the SBW situation even arose.
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@JayCee said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@Billy-Tell
2) no, he would have be available to play.The way I understood it, it didn't count towards his ban, yet he still wasn't allowed to play.
That's where I believe their decision was flawed, it made no sense at all.
Bloody Aussies, trying to have their cake and eat it too! -
@taniwharugby said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@ACT-Crusader I think the fact that the ban was handed down, and then only last week they decided to make a decision on whether the game of 3 halves constituted a real game was the issue.
Pretty sure the schedule of matches that SBW may have been eleigible to play in would have been known at the time of the ban, therefore to turn around weeks later and make decisions about the games he may have played in, is IMO incompetence.
There's a few assumptions in there TR.
Obviously it was a disputed issue around the games. That doesn't seem that unusual to me when one of those is this game of three halves which has more of a practice feel to it than anything. Now the status of that game appears to have been reviewed and given official status for the purposes of sanctions etc.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@taniwharugby said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@ACT-Crusader I think the fact that the ban was handed down, and then only last week they decided to make a decision on whether the game of 3 halves constituted a real game was the issue.
Pretty sure the schedule of matches that SBW may have been eleigible to play in would have been known at the time of the ban, therefore to turn around weeks later and make decisions about the games he may have played in, is IMO incompetence.
There's a few assumptions in there TR.
Obviously it was a disputed issue around the games. That doesn't seem that unusual to me when one of those is this game of three halves which has more of a practice feel to it than anything. Now the status of that game appears to have been reviewed and given official status for the purposes of sanctions etc.
Assumptions of competence when making the decision on how many games to ban him for, one would assume they would have access to a schedule of a game and therefore use this to determine which he will be ineligible to play in due to the ban, or did the ones making the ban make the assumption on the game of three halves and its relevance to the ban?
Again, my only assumption is one of competence in the original decision, maybe bans need to be for set weeks or they produce a list of games they are ineligible to play given match schedules are usually months in advance
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Foster makes an interesting point
Ironically, if someone gets red-carded in this particular match they will have to go through a judiciary hearing as they would in any other competitive match. I think it's hypocritical to say that one player can be suspended for an illegal act in a match, but another player can't use that match to live out a suspension
@KiwiMurph said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
Foster makes an interesting point
Ironically, if someone gets red-carded in this particular match they will have to go through a judiciary hearing as they would in any other competitive match. I think it's hypocritical to say that one player can be suspended for an illegal act in a match, but another player can't use that match to live out a suspension
This. All that needs to be said.
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"Damian is a very good rugby player. At the moment there is no clear and obvious third 10 and we know Waikato are going to play him at 10 which will be great and he's a goal kicker as well and a good one and he's been in fine form at 15.
"If you look beyond today and the World Cup he could be someone we get going at 10 and then maybe give him some training time, not so much game-time, at nine so he could be your third nine. He's got a big part to play in the All Blacks over the next few years there's no doubt about that."
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11898097
@Tim said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
"Damian is a very good rugby player. At the moment there is no clear and obvious third 10 and we know Waikato are going to play him at 10 which will be great and he's a goal kicker as well and a good one and he's been in fine form at 15.
"If you look beyond today and the World Cup he could be someone we get going at 10 and then maybe give him some training time, not so much game-time, at nine so he could be your third nine. He's got a big part to play in the All Blacks over the next few years there's no doubt about that."
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11898097
I reckon with dmac they see a possibility to unlock a bit of a
puzzle they have right now with BBarrett,
I think with bb their preference now would be to leave him at 10 for the 80 minutes , and to have a 10 on the bench that plays nowhere else would mean leaving him there getting splinters in his arse .
A utility 10 that could come on and provide impact in another position such as FB and cover 10 in the case of injury would be better for balance , And are hoping they can develop him into being that player . -
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@Crucial said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
Last years squad for TRC was 32. This training squad is 34. A couple of Crusaders to slot back in as well.
A possible final squad... (33 with an extra outside back to cover Bender's departure)All Blacks squad for two-day camp:
Forwards
Hookers: Dane Coles, Nathan Harris. +Codie TaylorProps:
Kane Hames, Nepo Laulala,Atu Moli,Jeffery Toomaga-Allenand Ofa Tu'ungafasi. + Crockett, Franks, MoodyLocks:
Dominic Bird,Tom Franklin, Brodie Retallick andPatrick Tuipulotu. + Romano, Whitelock, BarrettLoose forwards: Sam Cane,
Vaea Fifita, Akira Ioane, Jerome Kaino, Ardie Savea and Liam Squire. +ReadBacks
Halfbacks: Tawera Kerr-Barlow, TJ Perenara and Aaron Smith.
First five-eighths: Beauden Barrett, Damian McKenzie and Lima Sopoaga.
Midfielders:
Richard Buckman, Ngani Laumape, Anton Lienert-Brown,Charlie Ngatai, Sonny Bill Williams. +CrottyOutside backs: Jordie Barrett, Rieko Ioane,
Nehe Milner-Skudder, Waisake Naholo,Julian Savea, Ben Smith. +DaggI'd like to see the AB selectors back themselves to get Tuipolotou and Ioane up to speed. Just think Romano as a 4th lock is a bit meh. Doesn't le the side down, but he has a ceiling. I'm quite underwhelmed by Naholo these days also. Dagg, Smith, Barrett, Ioane & NMS for mine.
@Billy-Tell said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@Crucial said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
Last years squad for TRC was 32. This training squad is 34. A couple of Crusaders to slot back in as well.
A possible final squad... (33 with an extra outside back to cover Bender's departure)All Blacks squad for two-day camp:
Forwards
Hookers: Dane Coles, Nathan Harris. +Codie TaylorProps:
Kane Hames, Nepo Laulala,Atu Moli,Jeffery Toomaga-Allenand Ofa Tu'ungafasi. + Crockett, Franks, MoodyLocks:
Dominic Bird,Tom Franklin, Brodie Retallick andPatrick Tuipulotu. + Romano, Whitelock, BarrettLoose forwards: Sam Cane,
Vaea Fifita, Akira Ioane, Jerome Kaino, Ardie Savea and Liam Squire. +ReadBacks
Halfbacks: Tawera Kerr-Barlow, TJ Perenara and Aaron Smith.
First five-eighths: Beauden Barrett, Damian McKenzie and Lima Sopoaga.
Midfielders:
Richard Buckman, Ngani Laumape, Anton Lienert-Brown,Charlie Ngatai, Sonny Bill Williams. +CrottyOutside backs: Jordie Barrett, Rieko Ioane,
Nehe Milner-Skudder, Waisake Naholo,Julian Savea, Ben Smith. +DaggI'd like to see the AB selectors back themselves to get Tuipolotou and Ioane up to speed. Just think Romano as a 4th lock is a bit meh. Doesn't le the side down, but he has a ceiling. I'm quite underwhelmed by Naholo these days also. Dagg, Smith, Barrett, Ioane & NMS for mine.
Super rugby over, and only area I can see changing from Crucial team is that I don't think DMac will make it, allowing either NMS or the bus to join.
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@Billy-Tell said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@Crucial said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
Last years squad for TRC was 32. This training squad is 34. A couple of Crusaders to slot back in as well.
A possible final squad... (33 with an extra outside back to cover Bender's departure)All Blacks squad for two-day camp:
Forwards
Hookers: Dane Coles, Nathan Harris. +Codie TaylorProps:
Kane Hames, Nepo Laulala,Atu Moli,Jeffery Toomaga-Allenand Ofa Tu'ungafasi. + Crockett, Franks, MoodyLocks:
Dominic Bird,Tom Franklin, Brodie Retallick andPatrick Tuipulotu. + Romano, Whitelock, BarrettLoose forwards: Sam Cane,
Vaea Fifita, Akira Ioane, Jerome Kaino, Ardie Savea and Liam Squire. +ReadBacks
Halfbacks: Tawera Kerr-Barlow, TJ Perenara and Aaron Smith.
First five-eighths: Beauden Barrett, Damian McKenzie and Lima Sopoaga.
Midfielders:
Richard Buckman, Ngani Laumape, Anton Lienert-Brown,Charlie Ngatai, Sonny Bill Williams. +CrottyOutside backs: Jordie Barrett, Rieko Ioane,
Nehe Milner-Skudder, Waisake Naholo,Julian Savea, Ben Smith. +DaggI'd like to see the AB selectors back themselves to get Tuipolotou and Ioane up to speed. Just think Romano as a 4th lock is a bit meh. Doesn't le the side down, but he has a ceiling. I'm quite underwhelmed by Naholo these days also. Dagg, Smith, Barrett, Ioane & NMS for mine.
Super rugby over, and only area I can see changing from Crucial team is that I don't think DMac will make it, allowing either NMS or the bus to join.
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@Billy-Tell said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@Crucial said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
Last years squad for TRC was 32. This training squad is 34. A couple of Crusaders to slot back in as well.
A possible final squad... (33 with an extra outside back to cover Bender's departure)All Blacks squad for two-day camp:
Forwards
Hookers: Dane Coles, Nathan Harris. +Codie TaylorProps:
Kane Hames, Nepo Laulala,Atu Moli,Jeffery Toomaga-Allenand Ofa Tu'ungafasi. + Crockett, Franks, MoodyLocks:
Dominic Bird,Tom Franklin, Brodie Retallick andPatrick Tuipulotu. + Romano, Whitelock, BarrettLoose forwards: Sam Cane,
Vaea Fifita, Akira Ioane, Jerome Kaino, Ardie Savea and Liam Squire. +ReadBacks
Halfbacks: Tawera Kerr-Barlow, TJ Perenara and Aaron Smith.
First five-eighths: Beauden Barrett, Damian McKenzie and Lima Sopoaga.
Midfielders:
Richard Buckman, Ngani Laumape, Anton Lienert-Brown,Charlie Ngatai, Sonny Bill Williams. +CrottyOutside backs: Jordie Barrett, Rieko Ioane,
Nehe Milner-Skudder, Waisake Naholo,Julian Savea, Ben Smith. +DaggI'd like to see the AB selectors back themselves to get Tuipolotou and Ioane up to speed. Just think Romano as a 4th lock is a bit meh. Doesn't le the side down, but he has a ceiling. I'm quite underwhelmed by Naholo these days also. Dagg, Smith, Barrett, Ioane & NMS for mine.
Super rugby over, and only area I can see changing from Crucial team is that I don't think DMac will make it, allowing either NMS or the bus to join.
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he looked quicker than I thought he was too recently, especially this morning
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Having watched Crotty play so well at 2nd Five Eight, I am wondering if it is a good idea to have him pushed to outside centre to accomodate SBW. Yes, their combination worked well during the first test vs the BIL, but I am more and more inclined that a midfield with Crotty standing next to BB would be better. I would give Goodhue the 13 jersey.
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Having watched Crotty play so well at 2nd Five Eight, I am wondering if it is a good idea to have him pushed to outside centre to accomodate SBW. Yes, their combination worked well during the first test vs the BIL, but I am more and more inclined that a midfield with Crotty standing next to BB would be better. I would give Goodhue the 13 jersey.
@cgrant SBW and Crotty look the goods and probably the first choice combo when fit and not suspended.
Crotty's game is suited to either 12 or 13 in my view.
ALB at 13 with either SBW or Crotty at 12 also has most bases covered.
Laumape in the mix now and I don't think we need to be rushing Goodhue just yet.
