Exodus 2018
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This is absolutely in line with my thinking so it’s a big yes from me.
More inter union collaboration please.
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@majorrage I find it pretty easy to disagree with him, NZR are trying to think up a way to not lose so many players overseas long term. That's not arrogance. Oh, wait it is, because Paul is using the heebee jeebees to pull the subliminal messages floating out there. It makes sense for NZR to make deals with a few clubs as it does allow them a little bit of control. Whether any club would be willing to do that is another thing, but it hardly hurts NZR to try.
Do all rugby journalists eventually just become trolls? This is the kind of article that Ratpoo would write in his on going war with NZR (and rugby in general).
@nepia said in Exodus 2018:
@majorrage I find it pretty easy to disagree with him, NZR are trying to think up a way to not lose so many players overseas long term. That's not arrogance. Oh, wait it is, because Paul is using the heebee jeebees to pull the subliminal messages floating out there. It makes sense for NZR to make deals with a few clubs as it does allow them a little bit of control. Whether any club would be willing to do that is another thing, but it hardly hurts NZR to try.
Do all rugby journalists eventually just become trolls? This is the kind of article that Ratpoo would write in his on going war with NZR (and rugby in general).
+1. It was very Ratpoo-ish in content and style. Yawn.
The NZRFU are being proactive, there won't be anything stopping off-contract players signing with whoever they want, but if they can come to an arrangement with a few targeted clubs, it could be a win-win.
There is quite a constant chip-on-shoulder anti-NZRFU vibe from a fair few NZ journalists.
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You don't think there is any arrogance at all in the announcement / plans?
They are only prepared to make plans with clubs which they feel have "sound coaching structures and support systems"? Really? It's coming across as very we own the players and we'll only let them go to clubs which we feel follow our model and way of thinking.
Don't get me wrong - I appreciate the need to move with the times etc, but the announcement made it seem like these clubs would be almost part of the AB system. Which is Pauls' point.
It's arrogance personified.
@majorrage said in Exodus 2018:
They are only prepared to make plans with clubs which they feel have "sound coaching structures and support systems"? Really? It's coming across as very we own the players and we'll only let them go to clubs which we feel follow our model and way of thinking.
It reads to me as the NZR saying if players want to be a hope of coming back, then they're best served by going to clubs that have structures in place to maximise that possibility. Otherwise they can go play anywhere and take their chances.
I find it consistently amazing that New Zealand leads the world in so many aspects of rugby, but clearly comes dead last in its media driven analysis and reporting.
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We are the best, and have been basically forever, but most especially over the last 8 years. If we can't be arrogant now, when are we allowed to be?
This is a plan that has a bit of merit. I'm not actually sure it's as workable as the NZR think it will be, but it's certainly thinking.
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Reality is that players who leave rarely come back and players are leaving earlier and earlier. I'm not saying the y are arrogant for trying to do something about this - not at all.
We have a right to be arrogant about certain things but you can't be when trying to cut deals with bigger, richer unions than us.
Talking about approved lists, limited playing time etc ... thst is what I'm talking about. Can you imagine Saracens etc thoughts to the approach?
Maybe some clubs would be keen - I dunno ... but I highly doubt it. When you can afford to buy the players outright, why cut a restrictive deal?
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@majorrage said in Exodus 2018:
They are only prepared to make plans with clubs which they feel have "sound coaching structures and support systems"? Really? It's coming across as very we own the players and we'll only let them go to clubs which we feel follow our model and way of thinking.
It reads to me as the NZR saying if players want to be a hope of coming back, then they're best served by going to clubs that have structures in place to maximise that possibility. Otherwise they can go play anywhere and take their chances.
I find it consistently amazing that New Zealand leads the world in so many aspects of rugby, but clearly comes dead last in its media driven analysis and reporting.
@antipodean said in Exodus 2018:
@majorrage said in Exodus 2018:
It reads to me as the NZR saying if players want to be a hope of coming back, then they're best served by going to clubs that have structures in place to maximise that possibility. Otherwise they can go play anywhere and take their chances.
It's arrogant to assume players want to come back. Fuck all do.
I find it consistently amazing that New Zealand leads the world in so many aspects of rugby, but clearly comes dead last in its media driven analysis and reporting.
I can certainly agree with that, but I think Paul has a point here
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That article seems like a massive overreaction. The overseas exodus is one of the biggest threats to NZR, and this is something they're looking at to try and mitigate it. Overseas clubs may or not go for it, but it's worth trying. Frankly anything is worth is a try, except doing nothing and hoping for the best.
We won't learn anything from these clubs? We're not learning from them now anyway. We get nothing from them except a player drain.
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@majorrage do most not come back as it is rarely successful for one to come back and become an AB?
@taniwharugby I don't know enough players to answer that honestly. I would guess the coin is the more likely reason, as well as life out of the spot light
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@majorrage well the coin was probably the biggest factor in leaving, and you are right, probably big in them staying put too...but I expect some when weighing up the chances of returning and making it back to the ABs see it as a much harder path than staying one, especially when initially they will only be on a M10/Super contract until (if) they get back in ABs...
Havent been on much in the past week, but assume its been mentioned Thomas Waldron is coming back to NZ and will be looking at and for a M10 and possibly super rugby contract.
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I have been arguing for some bit of time for there to be greater collaboration between like-minded unions around player development, coaching, etc and match income sharing.
I think this idea from NZRU is a good one and the kind of clubs that would best fit would be those run by unions in Ireland, Wales, Scotland and Italy.
If a clear pathway of exit and return was mapped out for some, not all, players then it might have a chance. It’s not clear as to whether they’d want it to be capped players only (so they couldn’t be captured) and/or what age group they’re considering. A 2 or 3 year contract at 23/24 might prove attractive and not require a massive salary that PRO14 clubs could not afford. Could it work the other way too where some younger NH players move south?
Does it have to be confined to NZ? Would it work in Oz too?
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Daniel Braid, as a capped AB played for the Reds, and at the time was in the form of his life, but ineligible for ABs. However, not sure it would greatly benefit Aus if we did had a number of players over there, at least many of the ones that head over there now could end up Wallabies, whereas a team in Europe we have ties to would have less impact overall.
Wasn't there talk of SARU doing something similar or even buying a team like Saracens?
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@majorrage well the coin was probably the biggest factor in leaving, and you are right, probably big in them staying put too...but I expect some when weighing up the chances of returning and making it back to the ABs see it as a much harder path than staying one, especially when initially they will only be on a M10/Super contract until (if) they get back in ABs...
Havent been on much in the past week, but assume its been mentioned Thomas Waldron is coming back to NZ and will be looking at and for a M10 and possibly super rugby contract.
@taniwharugby said in Exodus 2018:
Havent been on much in the past week, but assume its been mentioned Thomas Waldron is coming back to NZ and will be looking at and for a M10 and possibly super rugby contract.
Thomas is already nearly 35 - pretty doubtful he'd be worth a punt as an injury replacement in this year's Super rugby - and next year he'll be 36. Might be good as an old head in a M10 Cup team.
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Didn't his form fall off a cliff!
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@tim said in Exodus 2018:
Highlanders forward Elliot Dixon eyes up overseas move pending All Blacks selection
Never as good as some rated him. A good back up but shouldn't ever have been in line for a first team spot.
A wrong choice by the Zoo.
Never like to see a player go thereby reducing the strength of Super Rugby, but goodbye and good luck.
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@tim said in Exodus 2018:
Highlanders forward Elliot Dixon eyes up overseas move pending All Blacks selection
Never as good as some rated him. A good back up but shouldn't ever have been in line for a first team spot.
A wrong choice by the Zoo.
Never like to see a player go thereby reducing the strength of Super Rugby, but goodbye and good luck.
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it feels like we have reached a point where the exodus has just moved into another gear. I think we have done a great job of keeping talent in NZ over the last 20 years but wonder how long we will be able to do so?
The NZR and our partners are in an arms race we cant win basically and the whole SH is suffering and our competitons are diminishing which affects revenues which speeds up the process of players leaving. Catch 22
I dont think there is an answer either unless we get a sheikh who wants to invest in NZ rugby! I am not sure we can stop this. In fact, I know we won't be able to. People, of all walks of life, chase the money, always have, always will.
How long will this take? when will NZ's best be playing in France. A Kieran Reid or a Richie McCaw moving to France in his prime could force a policy change from the NZR and then we are not in kansas anymore toto.
I hate the idea where rugby follows football and all the best players are in Europe and euro club rugby becomes the highest quality in the game, more than the world cup.
Sorry to be so depressing but it is depressing.
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it feels like we have reached a point where the exodus has just moved into another gear. I think we have done a great job of keeping talent in NZ over the last 20 years but wonder how long we will be able to do so?
The NZR and our partners are in an arms race we cant win basically and the whole SH is suffering and our competitons are diminishing which affects revenues which speeds up the process of players leaving. Catch 22
I dont think there is an answer either unless we get a sheikh who wants to invest in NZ rugby! I am not sure we can stop this. In fact, I know we won't be able to. People, of all walks of life, chase the money, always have, always will.
How long will this take? when will NZ's best be playing in France. A Kieran Reid or a Richie McCaw moving to France in his prime could force a policy change from the NZR and then we are not in kansas anymore toto.
I hate the idea where rugby follows football and all the best players are in Europe and euro club rugby becomes the highest quality in the game, more than the world cup.
Sorry to be so depressing but it is depressing.
@dagrubster TBH, I don't even know if money will stop some players leaving, travel is a huge factor for SH rugby (Super & TRC) with numerous trips away for weeks at a time, can't imagine that is easy on a player with a young family...sure he and his partner know what they are getting into blah blah blah...doesn't make it any easier
