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canefan

It is much harder to try and eradicate bad habits as people get older. Education about healthy eating right from birth and early age will hopefully help down the track

No Quarter

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="566044" data-time="1458446622">
Why shouldn't we use the drain on the taxpayers argument? If you live an unhealthy lifestyle snd your health suffers we have to pick up the tab . That stinks . 
As I said s doctor and s nurse both told me the health system is clogged up with obese people and smokers .</blockquote>Yeah it's a completly unnecassary drain on the public health system which is already stretched that is the main concern of most people. 
The impacts of obesity to society are wide reaching though.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="canefan" data-cid="566047" data-time="1458447104">
The other thing is that they go hard out at the start and get crocked as a result. A lady that used to work with me did this and had problem after problem coz she farked her ankles running when walking was more advisable</blockquote>
 
Apparently that happens on the biggest loser reasonably regularly , people that big shouldn't be doing that to their body .

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Siam" data-cid="566048" data-time="1458447200">
I say that Jegg, because (to my knowledge) we have no way of quantifying what tax get paid and where. Also what is the guarantee that tax saved on people not being obese gets spent on things we want and need. 
For example smoking is as clever as building cots out of the harmful asbestos and it's obvious it should be totally banned. It creates nothing beneficial and causes all it's own problems. BUT no government ever bans it and actually raises more revenue on it every year. Despite telling us the Ministry of Health is worried for our health, but not worried enough to go without that massive revenue stream 
ergo 
I have no trust of tax collectors motives or apportioning or even what and how much they spend on us so I'm not prepared to admit we'd be better off if the fat got skinny, because for sure we'd not be better (available public tax money) if all smokers stopped smoking</blockquote>
 
We do know that the govt sets aside X amount of money for their health budget every year , heart disease, diabetes etc through poor lifestyle must soak up a fair bit of X and it's all preventable . 
I'm not sure about your rationale re smoking.

taniwharugby

Western Obesity is a huge issue, so if it is a huge issue then it is a huge impact on the health service, and where is the health service funded?
 
Back to the point of the thread...
 
more interesting than awesome

Siam

Nah, me neither actually except that the last thing the government wants is to stop people smoking because that's a massive revenue stream gone. Yet they say that they want people to stop smoking. I don't trust governments when it comes to subjects like taxes. Living in outrageous corruption has jaundiced my view
 
 
 
Like I say I don't understand it all but I reckon public health services should be for the all the public and I think there is enough to go around if governed properly.
 
If you exclude some lifestyles from the system, where does that end? 
 
I think the last thing fat people need is ridicule and persecution, and that it's more important to build a complete health system rather than leaving people out of the current health system.
 
 
Repeat: I don't really know the answers but I know what shithouse public systems look like and NZ has one of the best in the world IMO - better to improve it than deny it to people or use it as an excuse to omit people from it

Siam

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="566060" data-time="1458450182">
<div>
Western Obesity is a huge issue, so if it is a huge issue then it is a huge impact on the health service, and where is the health service funded?
 
 
</div>
</blockquote>
 
By fat people

Siam

No worries though, back to the thread itself

taniwharugby

I dont want to deny the health service to overweight people or anyone, but I guess they, like other addicts need to want to lose weight, and so many dont.
 
 I guess with so many overweight people, they are now starting to contribute on a more proportionate level :fishing:

canefan

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Siam" data-cid="566039" data-time="1458444873">Do overweight people actually detract from your day to day living? 
 
Do they actually negatively impact the life you guys can lead? 
 
I'm not being a shit stirrer here but one of the things I've learned in Asia is their, not so much tolerance, but just general pragmatic "so what" to people's appearance and even behaviour. 
 
For sure, affect their families or livlihood and they'll arc up, but the prevailing attitude is live and let live and "up to them" with a shrug 
 
That might be because life is more of a struggle in these densely populated places (no social security etc), but it's quite refreshing. 
 
I find the people in the west more outwardly judgemental and just wonder why that is. You've got to have your opinions and for sure go for it, I just wonder if we're not getting sucked in to wasting braincells on the utterly trivial 
 
Don't pull the drain on taxpayers card either, that's not a realistic argument. Governments would tax watching rugby if they could get away with it and then we'd be in the same boat as smokers and the obese, as it were. 
 
Just wondering is all</blockquote>Are they tolerant or just don't really care? I'd suspect most Asian countries don't have the sort of public health system we enjoy

Siam

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="canefan" data-cid="566074" data-time="1458451962">
<div>
Are they tolerant or just don't really care? I'd suspect most Asian countries don't have the sort of public health system we enjoy
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Generalising but I guess because they don't really care it comes across as tolerant. It's refreshing that (in my circles anyway) there is not as much stigma attached with appearance in that they'll call it as it is - fat, black, thin, white, gay etc and no offense is meant or taken - imagine that?
 
But it ain't no utopia as the contents of a wallet is used to discriminate in often disgusting ways. Also generally the desired appearance is to be fat and white, i.e. You've got money for food and enough wealth not to work outdoors.
 
It is strange when old friends you haven't seen for a while openly express, with genuine affection and goodwill - "my god you've got fat!"

NTA

Today if you get medical procedures done, or apply for health/life insurance, you have to give them your smoking status. It will affect the loading on your insurance in pretty much every case. For life insurance I know from personal experience that a BMI over a certain amount will slap a 50% premium on your policy.
 
In the case where you are getting an operation of serious import, they need weight for drug load etc. 
 
So maybe, whenever we get a patient going in to see the GP, or getting a procedure done, or admitted to hospital, their weight and height is registered along with their blood pressure. Too many fails in the relevant categories, and you are given a warning that any future visits will require a copayment.
 
Combine that with a sugar tax, and remove the compulsory health portion of everybody's income tax.
 
Fat people pay for their health, everyone else doesn't have to. The end.

Donsteppa

And then non-drinkers object to their taxes going towards the health/policing/licencing costs of drinkers and drinking establishments, so they demand a whole lot of exclusions ("the end"), and so on, and so on, and we start ending up like... the US pre ObamaCare? 
Reckon Siam has got this one about on the money.

NTA

OK then, don't remove the health portion of tax. Just increase it for fat people until they show progress.

jegga

My issue is real issue with it isn't so much the money but people who could have prevented becoming ill through their own bad lifestyle choices joining the waiting list or getting bumped up the waiting list because they still won't change the way they live their lives and their health deteriorates . 
most hospitals do X amount of surgeries s year. I watched my dad get bumped off them for two years till he was too weak to survive the anaesthetic.

Donsteppa

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="566118" data-time="1458462471">OK then, don't remove the health portion of tax. Just increase it for fat people until they show progress.</blockquote>
 
Why not the same for alcoholics, "social drinkers", stoners, etc...? 
I'm not advocating that being Fat Bastard is healthy, but it just seems to be an easy, literally visible target.

canefan

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Donsteppa" data-cid="566120" data-time="1458462874">Why not the same for alcoholics, "social drinkers", stoners, etc...? 
I'm not advocating that being Fat Bastard is healthy, but it just seems to be an easy, literally visible target.</blockquote>It is a complicated matter don and I agree, where does it end?

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Donsteppa" data-cid="566120" data-time="1458462874">
Why not the same for alcoholics, "social drinkers", stoners, etc...? 
I'm not advocating that being Fat Bastard is healthy, but it just seems to be an easy, literally visible target.</blockquote>
 
It should be the and for them too. Next month a whole bunch of health and safety changes come into force , because the penalties are far more severe I bet drug testing is going to be way more common and frequent . Being a stoner is going to impact you way more in the future . 
My acc rates are way higher than an office worker I don't see why people who make bad lifestyle choices should be treated the same as those who don't by the health system .

NTA

I think of the health system like I do the dole - its there as a safety net.
 
The problem is, we have a couple of generations now on the dole who are satisfied with it (bit of a crossover with the US election/hillbilly heroin stuff here) and born into it. Back in the day, it was a bit of a badge of shame to need the dole, but there are swathes of people on it who now laugh at the government. Their kids laugh at their teachers, and police.
 
Where does that end? Is that satisfactory?
 
 
This chick talking about discrimination against fat people is just another one in the line of The Great Offended. And this "big but healthy" thing has a limit, as many people find out too late.
 
You can't help being too tall for an airplane seat, but sure as fuck you can help being too fat. 
 
I went to the Royal Easter Show today, and must say that the percentage of seriously overweight people was alarming. Maybe because it was a greater cross-section of society than I'm used to at one time, but when you see a family of three generations, all fat, all hoeing into a pile of deep-fried shit with one hand, and a ciggy in the other, you just can't see a way out for them.
 
And that's the heartbreaking bit: like the dole culture, their kids will never know anything except microwave meals, sugar-laden bullshit cheap food, and dead tastebuds due to passive cigarette smoking.
 
Which is fine because they fucking take it up at 15 anyway.

reprobate

taxing unhealthy food is the equivalent of what is done with smoking. it's the only realistic way to deal with it i think, along with education. as a nation, we are fucking, fucking fat, and it's not good. tricky thing to implement of course, which would mean we get more of everyone's favourite thing: bureaucrats.

The Silver Fern

Awesome stuff you see on the internet