Awesome stuff you see on the internet

NTA

I think of the health system like I do the dole - its there as a safety net.
 
The problem is, we have a couple of generations now on the dole who are satisfied with it (bit of a crossover with the US election/hillbilly heroin stuff here) and born into it. Back in the day, it was a bit of a badge of shame to need the dole, but there are swathes of people on it who now laugh at the government. Their kids laugh at their teachers, and police.
 
Where does that end? Is that satisfactory?
 
 
This chick talking about discrimination against fat people is just another one in the line of The Great Offended. And this "big but healthy" thing has a limit, as many people find out too late.
 
You can't help being too tall for an airplane seat, but sure as fuck you can help being too fat. 
 
I went to the Royal Easter Show today, and must say that the percentage of seriously overweight people was alarming. Maybe because it was a greater cross-section of society than I'm used to at one time, but when you see a family of three generations, all fat, all hoeing into a pile of deep-fried shit with one hand, and a ciggy in the other, you just can't see a way out for them.
 
And that's the heartbreaking bit: like the dole culture, their kids will never know anything except microwave meals, sugar-laden bullshit cheap food, and dead tastebuds due to passive cigarette smoking.
 
Which is fine because they fucking take it up at 15 anyway.

reprobate

taxing unhealthy food is the equivalent of what is done with smoking. it's the only realistic way to deal with it i think, along with education. as a nation, we are fucking, fucking fat, and it's not good. tricky thing to implement of course, which would mean we get more of everyone's favourite thing: bureaucrats.

NTA

Look that is probably true in terms of immediate impact to the tax bottom line. I'm not a politico-financial whizz or anything (clearly!)
 
It doesn't actually stop people. Taxing cigarettes didn't really stop people, though it slowed them down once it got to a certain point, but here in Oz the warnings and packaging and better education did far more.
 
As you say, it just creates another bunch of bureaucrats to govern it all, and then you're kind of stuck feeding the money into that machine until it hits critical mass, then you need to get more bureaucrats because KFC is popular, meaning more people are getting unhealthy and need more workers to push paper. Or the scheme is so wildly effective, you need to up the rate because fatness declines, but you can't just lay off all those government workers without a hefty bill.
 
It is worth noting that McDonald's and Coke have been seeing flat periods or even downturn in quarters over the past couple of years. That is some way to progress I suppose.
 
But it still doesn't like the health education thing in that well. I don't want to point and laugh at fat people in hospital who have to pay more money to go there. I want them to fucking stop killing themselves stupidly because our medical people have more important shit to work on.

canefan

No doubt things are changing. Take the maccas example, in response to dropping turnover they introduced healthier options and newer initiatives like McCafe. Sure they still sell a shit load of soda but it goes to show change doesn't necessarily need to be legislated. Breakfast and lunch initiatives in lower decile schools will hopefully help the younger generation develop better habits in a high risk group

NTA

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="canefan" data-cid="566140" data-time="1458465741">
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Breakfast and lunch initiatives in lower decile schools will hopefully help the younger generation develop better habits in a high risk group
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We don't have the setup to do any of that, to my knowledge. Or at least not in NSW. And its a shame.
 
As someone who had the privilege of parents who introduced a love of books and learning to me, as well as the fortune to receive above-average learning skills, I look at some kids and shake my head.
 
Some clown was on TV one night talking about the need to ensure even the poorest kids had access to early childhood education, even if its meant the government subsiding them to create an equal playing field.
 
DISCLAIMER: He owned a chain of childcare centres.
 
His point was that Asian kids were starting schooling at age 3 and they were learning second languages etc. And that we had to provide our kids with similar learning opportunities. 
 
But it is NEVER a level playing field, because despite all the fabulous learning those kids do at daycare, there is a percentage of them whose parents won't give a fuck, and can barely read them a bedtime story.

reprobate

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="566137" data-time="1458465063">
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Look that is probably true in terms of immediate impact to the tax bottom line. I'm not a politico-financial whizz or anything (clearly!)
 
It doesn't actually stop people. Taxing cigarettes didn't really stop people, though it slowed them down once it got to a certain point, but here in Oz the warnings and packaging and better education did far more.
 
As you say, it just creates another bunch of bureaucrats to govern it all, and then you're kind of stuck feeding the money into that machine until it hits critical mass, then you need to get more bureaucrats because KFC is popular, meaning more people are getting unhealthy and need more workers to push paper. Or the scheme is so wildly effective, you need to up the rate because fatness declines, but you can't just lay off all those government workers without a hefty bill.
 
It is worth noting that McDonald's and Coke have been seeing flat periods or even downturn in quarters over the past couple of years. That is some way to progress I suppose.
 
But it still doesn't like the health education thing in that well. I don't want to point and laugh at fat people in hospital who have to pay more money to go there. I want them to fucking stop killing themselves stupidly because our medical people have more important shit to work on.
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i don't want the government to stop them, as i don't think that is their prerogative; i am for freedom of choice, and if someone wants to smoke or eat shit, then let them i say. while i'd certainly prefer they didn't, and i think educating them as to why it's a bad idea is an absolute must, it ought to still be up to them. 
taxing those choices makes sense though, as those choices have financial consequences for the public health system - and the masses shouldn't really have to chip in for fat albert's daily packet of chips and coke, or his pack of fags.
getting rid of gst on fresh fruit and veg isn't the worst idea.

NTA

We don't have GST on certain items here. Fresh produce doesn't PROVIDED it hasn't been prepared ("Services") in any way. 
There is some weird example where bread isn't subject to GST because as a staple, it burdens the poorest. OK then. 
That extends to bread rolls I believe - UNLESS those bread rolls have had something done to them like icing or filling. <a class="bbc_url" href="https://www.ato.gov.au/General/Aboriginal-and-Torres-Strait-Islander-people/In-detail/GST---Helping-you-understand-your-GST-obligations/?page=3">https://www.ato.gov.au/General/Aboriginal-and-Torres-Strait-Islander-people/In-detail/GST---Helping-you-understand-your-GST-obligations/?page=3</a>

canefan

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="566146" data-time="1458468074">
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We don't have GST on certain items here. Fresh produce doesn't PROVIDED it hasn't been prepared ("Services") in any way. 
There is some weird example where bread isn't subject to GST because as a staple, it burdens the poorest. OK then. 
That extends to bread rolls I believe - UNLESS those bread rolls have had something done to them like icing or filling. <a class="bbc_url" href="https://www.ato.gov.au/General/Aboriginal-and-Torres-Strait-Islander-people/In-detail/GST---Helping-you-understand-your-GST-obligations/?page=3">https://www.ato.gov.au/General/Aboriginal-and-Torres-Strait-Islander-people/In-detail/GST---Helping-you-understand-your-GST-obligations/?page=3</a>
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The aussie GST schedule is quite unusual. I'm all for a GST drop or removal from primary produce, whether it will help those in the lower income groups though I'm not so sure. I'm sure you'll still see the lines of cars outside the takeaway chains out in Sth Auckland, GST or no

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="566146" data-time="1458468074">
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We don't have GST on certain items here. Fresh produce doesn't PROVIDED it hasn't been prepared ("Services") in any way. 
There is some weird example where bread isn't subject to GST because as a staple, it burdens the poorest. OK then. 
That extends to bread rolls I believe - UNLESS those bread rolls have had something done to them like icing or filling. <a class="bbc_url" href="https://www.ato.gov.au/General/Aboriginal-and-Torres-Strait-Islander-people/In-detail/GST---Helping-you-understand-your-GST-obligations/?page=3">https://www.ato.gov.au/General/Aboriginal-and-Torres-Strait-Islander-people/In-detail/GST---Helping-you-understand-your-GST-obligations/?page=3</a>
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My current client is from the Uk and has lived here for a while , works for IRD and worked for whatever the equivalent is called in the Uk. Anyway, he said our gst is superior to vat because it has no exemptions . It just gives lawyers an opportunity to make money for clients trying to rort it, this is the classic example he quoted, <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffa_Cakes#cite_note-which-13 '>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffa_Cakes#cite_note-which-13 </a>
You want to help out the poor change the tax brackets or make sure the vouchers they get from WINZ don't apply to soft drinks, cigarettes, alcohol etc etc.
 
I was in aussie when they bought in gst, the arguments about what should and shouldn't be exempt were funny in a sad kind of way.

NTA

It's fucked. Exemption is the mother of all shit storms

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="566149" data-time="1458469314">
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It's fucked. Exemption is the mother of all shit storms
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Yep, he said kids clothes are exempt too, some adults are small enough to fit them so get cheaper clothes.

gt12

Siam, 
Here in JP, being fat, putting on weight, etc. gets commented on so quickly that it's not funny. Huge expectation to keep yourself in healthy shape - reinforced by yearly health checks which involve extra check ups if you are considered too 'unhealthy' - one factor of which is a high BMI. 
For example, I'm 189/190cms tall and weigh between 82-84 kgs, depending on the day and alcohol/food of the previous weekend. I still get pulled up for being overweight. 
I raise this to say that there is Huuuuge social pressure here (which I'm sure you also see). It's just so different to NZ and the USA that I can't walk around NZ without constantly thinking 'how the fuck did all these people put on this weight?' Even though I hit 103 at 21 years old the last time I was a full time resident. 
I have no idea how to change societal ideas about weight and health, but it's clear that it is cultural/country specific. When I'm home in NZ, I'll put on 3 -4kgs in a week, even if I run everyday...

Siam

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gt12" data-cid="566155" data-time="1458471726">
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Siam, 
Here in JP, being fat, putting on weight, etc. gets commented on so quickly that it's not funny. Huge expectation to keep yourself in healthy shape - reinforced by yearly health checks which involve extra check ups if you are considered too 'unhealthy' - one factor of which is a high BMI. 
For example, I'm 189/190cms tall and weigh between 82-84 kgs, depending on the day and alcohol/food of the previous weekend. I still get pulled up for being overweight. 
I raise this to say that there is Huuuuge social pressure here (which I'm sure you also see). It's just so different to NZ and the USA that I can't walk around NZ without constantly thinking 'how the fuck did all these people put on this weight?' Even though I hit 103 at 21 years old the last time I was a full time resident. 
I have no idea how to change societal ideas about weight and health, but it's clear that it is cultural/country specific. When I'm home in NZ, I'll put on 3 -4kgs in a week, even if I run everyday...
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Wow that's interesting, haven't noticed weight being a topic here
 
Dark skin is the pressure point here as I mentioned and a supposed link with being a poor farmer. People, chicks especially will go to great lengths to stay out of the sun and whitening creams are a multi billion dollar industry. Thais are inherently vane and the whole place is based on appearances
 
All those perfect bikini bodies and not a bikini in sight
 
It's all about being white and pretty. I think the heat and natural diet helps with the weight thing but the diet (and weight) is changing to more processed foods. The Philippines has an interesting phenomenon called a "Jolibee" body where nubile women stack on flab because of a burger franchise called Jolibee that makes MacDonalds seem like a ryvita shop

antipodean

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="566149" data-time="1458469314">
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It's fucked. Exemption is the mother of all shit storms
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You can thank the fucking Democrats for that. Thankfully the Tasmanian Devil has more life than they do now.

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Siam" data-cid="566158" data-time="1458473462">
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Wow that's interesting, haven't noticed weight being a topic here
 
Dark skin is the pressure point here as I mentioned and a supposed link with being a poor farmer. People, chicks especially will go to great lengths to stay out of the sun and whitening creams are a multi billion dollar industry. Thais are inherently vane and the whole place is based on appearances
 
All those perfect bikini bodies and not a bikini in sight
 
It's all about being white and pretty. I think the heat and natural diet helps with the weight thing but the diet (and weight) is changing to more processed foods. The Philippines has an interesting phenomenon called a "Jolibee" body where nubile women stack on flab because of a burger franchise called Jolibee that makes MacDonalds seem like a ryvita shop
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All the Thais I know (very small sample size) are naturally pretty dark so that must be annoying for them. 
 
We watched that Chinese game show with the 25 women and one guy and they're all hideously pale (to me anyway) - we need to find a way to introduce beach culture to the Asians!

canefan

How Heather Graham stays looking young

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Actress Heather Graham horrifies people when she tells them how much sleep she likes to have a night.
The 46-year-old Bowfinger star looks years younger than her actual age, and she partly credits her youthful looks with the amount of shut eye she gets, even though it always shocks people when they find out how long she spends in bed.
"I love sleeping," she confessed to British newspaper The Guardian. "When I tell people how much I sleep sometimes, they are horrified. I basically sleep between nine and 12 hours a night."
Even when she isn't asleep, Graham likes to spend a lot of time in her bed as a means of relaxing, and she makes no apologies for it. 
"Once a week I spend a day luxuriating in bed," she continued. "I like staying in my house, pottering around and maybe cooking or just laying around reading. I love doing yoga and transcendental meditation."
Her laid back approach to life is in stark contrast with the early days of her career, when the Hangover star spent every waking hour striving to be the best at her chosen profession.
"I spent too many years being hard on myself, like a drill sergeant in my head," she explained. "I thought that if I was hard on myself, I'd get more results, but I now know that's not true."
Her determination to succeed was no surprise to her family though, as Graham always knew she wanted to be an actress.
"I used to dress up in my mom's old clothes and play with these kids from the neighbourhood and make up stories: I would pretend that we were all vampires," she recalled. "I became more shy and awkward when I was nine and my family moved again (my dad was in the FBI). Being in a new place made me feel insecure."
Thankfully her parents never held her back from chasing her dreams, and she will always be thankful for it.
"I am very grateful that they supported me in becoming an actor," she said. 

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No Quarter

She looks about 46 years old to me...

Crucial

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="566149" data-time="1458469314">
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It's fucked. Exemption is the mother of all shit storms
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And achieves little. 
 
You can bet your bottom dollar that $1.99/kg apples won't be selling for $1.69/kg if GST comes off. There would be an initial price drop to look right then the price would creep back up (citing increased costs because of 'xxxxxx') to the price point they had before.

No Quarter

For the record I am not in favour of denying anybody access to the health system, that's crazy. Saying we need to do something about obesity does not mean we kick overweight people out in the cold.
 
And the impact is not just to the health system. I'd say the more important impacts are quality of life and loss of life.
 
If a kid grows up overweight with diabetes their quality of life is hugely impacted. It is not a kids "choice" to be overweight, they can't make that decision themselves. If a kid is overweight it is 100% the parents choice - is it OK for a parent to fuck with their child's health? It is bordering on neglect in a lot of situations.
 
OR
 
If you lose a loved one to heart disease because they spent their life eating and drinking crap that has a pretty bloody big impact on you, regardless of your own health. If a kid loses their parents early for the same reasons, again, big impact.
 
All of this is very easily preventable. That is what is frustrating about it. Yes I believe in freedom of choice, but I also believe that if you are going to live in a society with all the benefits that brings, then you have a responsibility to contribute to it as well. Too many people take what we have for granted and just think "I CAN DO WHAT I WANT!!" which is a fucking shitty attitude. People that think it's OK to be overweight, just like people that don't vaccinate their kids, are actively taxing on a society that has provided them a high quality of life.
 
I don't think taxing sugary drinks is going to make any difference at all. It needs to be a change in culture that says it's not OK to be obese. The "Fat Shaming" movement is a pile of fucking crap. The more people normalise being a fat shit the more people will become fat shits. The only way smoking rates have fallen is because of a shift in culture where smokers are now looked at as polluting the air with their disgusting smoke.
 
Education is key. Put it as a subject in schools if you have too. Make sure our kids know that it is not OK to be obese and that if you are, then you need to take some responsibility and do something about it.

taniwharugby

Didn't think it warranted a thread of its own (but maybe we need a NZ Politics one...)
 
It'd be awesome if Labour can magic up the money to pay me an extra $200 or so a week to do what I do, my wife could give up work with her $200 as well, cos working as she does to fit inside school hours we'd be better off, especially as we would then not have to spend about $75 per day over the holidays for child care!
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/78100200/labour-party-considering-universal-income-of-11000-a-year-for-all-kiwis'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/78100200/labour-party-considering-universal-income-of-11000-a-year-for-all-kiwis</a>
 
Labour Party considering 'universal income' of $11,000 a year for all Kiwis 
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SAM SACHDEVA
Last updated 14:26, March 21 2016
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The Labour Party is looking into the idea of a universal income of $11,000 a year for all New Zealanders.
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A proposal to pay every adult Kiwi more than $200 a week as a "universal income" from the Government is being considered by the Labour Party.
A <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/nzlabour/pages/4208/attachments/original/1458272685/Background_Paper_-_A_Universal_Basic_Income_for_New_Zealand.pdf?1458272685'>discussion paper</a> from the party has mooted the idea of a universal income, where every adult New Zealander would receive $11,000 a year ($211 a week) in exchange for scrapping many current welfare payments.
The proposal is part of the party's Future of Work Commission, a project to look at the impact of new technologies on careers and the workforce.
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Labour finance spokesman Grant Robertson says it is looking into how to best provide income support to Kiwis as their careers come under threat from new technologies.
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The discussion paper says a universal income would help to remove the insecurity associated with low wages or insufficient welfare benefits, which bred "personal shame, stress, [and] mental health problems".
READ MORE:

<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/78022945/gareth-morgan-says-labour-doesnt-have-the-balls-for-a-coherent-ubi-policy'>Gareth Morgan: Labour 'lacks balls' for universal income</a>
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/77710601/Labour-leader-Andrew-Little-promises-debate-on-universal-basic-income'>Little promises universal income debate</a> 
* <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/better-business/68175976/Labour-rolls-up-sleeves-to-tackle-the-future-of-work' title="">Labour rolls up sleeves to tackle the future of work</a> 
* <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/better-business/68235960/workers-face-a-mobile-uberstyle-future' title="">Workers face a mobile, Uber-style future</a>
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/world/74841946/finland-wants-to-pay-all-citizens-basic-income-of-800-a-month'>Finland wants to pay its citizens a basic income of â‚¬800 a month</a>
"New Zealanders would have more time to devote to creative work and their family, rather than worrying about keeping a roof over their heads."
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The paper says a universal income could also encourage increased entrepreneurship, reduce the stigma from being on welfare, make it easier for people to retrain, and create a more efficient tax and welfare system.
However, it acknowledges a number of criticisms, including whether a universal income could provide enough money for recipients without being unaffordable, and whether it would make it less likely for people to work.
Some would also think it unfair to provide the same amount of money to "vulnerable and privileged people alike", which meant additional payments to those "in real need" would have to be considered.
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Economist Gareth Morgan has questioned whether Labour has "the balls" to implement a universal income policy.
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Universal income trials in Alaska, India and other places showed the idea was achievable, the paper says, although there was an "urgent need for more data".
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'PRECARIOUS WORK, INSECURE WORK'
Labour finance spokesman Grant Robertson, who is chairing the Future of Work Commission, said the party had not yet decided whether a universal income would be part of its policy for the 2017 election, but it was "actively considering" the idea.
"There's a lot more people in precarious work, insecure work, there's likely to be people moving in and out of work more often in the future...there's a lot more instability in the environment and we are looking at different models of what will provide income security through that period of change."
Robertson said the party still needed to weigh up the pros and cons of a universal income, including its likely cost and whether "top-ups" to some people would be necessary, as well as other ways to provide income security.
Labour would spend the rest of the year looking at the proposals, and others from the commission, before announcing policies sometime before the election.
'TOO MUCH OF A CHALLENGE'
Economist Gareth Morgan, who supports the idea of a UBI,questioned whether Labour would have "the balls" to go ahead with a coherent policy.
"I don't think at the end of the day they would have the balls, really, to put in a fiscally coherent UBI," Morgan said.
"They'd find that just too much of a challenge."
Such a policy would be a major change in the way wealth was transferred, Morgan said.
"The beauty of it is that it recognises the contribution to society that people who don't necessarily get paid make, like at-home spouses or volunteers in the community.
"It gives people more choice so if you quit your job to do training or go back to uni you've got that to rely on."
The Future of Work Commission was launched by Labour in May last year to develop a range of policies before the 2017 election.
A team of independent expert advisers is helping 10 MPs to investigate themes including the impact of new technology and demands for greater workplace flexibility, with a number of issues papers already released by Labour.
 - Stuff

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