Blues 2019
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Wasn't a massive fan of MacDonald taking over from Tana the last time but I'll give this a chance...
But full credit for the Blues making a move. Tana has been an improvement on SJK and Lam but still ultimately was seemed outmatched and outclassed by other NZ franchise coaches. Still ultimately I would like to see a non-ex-AB coach though after now four on the trot.
@rotated said in Blues 2019 - (New Head Coach):
Wasn't a massive fan of MacDonald taking over from Tana the last time but I'll give this a chance...
But full credit for the Blues making a move. Tana has been an improvement on SJK and Lam but still ultimately was seemed outmatched and outclassed by other NZ franchise coaches. Still ultimately I would like to see a non-ex-AB coach though after now four on the trot.
In what way was Tana an improvement? He has a worse record than both those coaches, selected terrible squads and presided over some of the worst results in our history. 60fucking points conceded on Eden Park FFS.
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Farken hell. Only the blues. Have we ever seen this before? I can't think of any time I've seen the head coach demoted to assistant and vice versa.
@bones said in Blues 2019 - (New Head Coach):
Farken hell. Only the blues. Have we ever seen this before? I can't think of any time I've seen the head coach demoted to assistant and vice versa.
And only months after signing an extension. WTF! Good but WTF.
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@bones said in Blues 2019 - (New Head Coach):
Farken hell. Only the blues. Have we ever seen this before? I can't think of any time I've seen the head coach demoted to assistant and vice versa.
And only months after signing an extension. WTF! Good but WTF.
@pukunui said in Blues 2019 - (New Head Coach):
And only months after signing an extension. WTF! Good but WTF.
Yes, it obviously wasn’t his decision despite the spin put on it
The Blues have a review and extend Umaga
Then NZR get directly involved with the Blues
Another review happens and Umaga “decides” to take a lesser jobIt seems clear NZR came to a different conclusion than the Blues
It’s a shame the correct call wasn’t made months ago. Then MacDonald could’ve picked his own squad etc (although he still would’ve been hamstrung by previous poor Umaga/Hanks selections)
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Farken hell. Only the blues. Have we ever seen this before? I can't think of any time I've seen the head coach demoted to assistant and vice versa.
@bones said in Blues 2019 - (New Head Coach):
Farken hell. Only the blues. Have we ever seen this before? I can't think of any time I've seen the head coach demoted to assistant and vice versa.
Warridogs and whathisname they called Cappy. McFadden?
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As long as T is there in a role and there are CM guys in the squad some fans will still have somewhere to direct their blame.
Good luck (and I mean that) to Rangi and I hope he doesn't get destroyed like those before him.
All coaches make mistakes and get bad luck. The structure and circumstances around them dictate how much that effects the team. It's no coincidence the number of coaches that get chewed up at the Blues. Let's hope that the NZRU has managed to fix all the other stuff as well. -
As long as T is there in a role and there are CM guys in the squad some fans will still have somewhere to direct their blame.
Good luck (and I mean that) to Rangi and I hope he doesn't get destroyed like those before him.
All coaches make mistakes and get bad luck. The structure and circumstances around them dictate how much that effects the team. It's no coincidence the number of coaches that get chewed up at the Blues. Let's hope that the NZRU has managed to fix all the other stuff as well. -
@crucial
Are you implying Umaga was not one of the MAIN reasons for the failure of the Blues?@frank said in Blues 2019 - (New Head Coach):
@crucial
Are you implying Umaga was not one of the MAIN reasons for the failure of the Blues?I'd really prefer not go over a discussion that has been had over and over again, but put it this way...
The performance of any coach at the Blues over the past 10 years has been made much more difficult by factors over which they have little control. To point the finger at the coach is simply the easy target to go around the houses again.I have never said that Tana does not have failings, nor that he is free of blame or responsibility. I simply keep pointing out that the structure, depth and systems in NZ rugby at Super level mean that one team is always going to get into a rut and find it bloody hard to get out of it. Just like the on field players, that makes it very difficult to not get sucked into 'chasing a win' and digging the hole deeper.
My take has always been that the 'sack the coach' view is too simplistic until the damage is bad enough that they have no way out. Maybe the balance can swing enough with NZRU interference to get the Blues out of last place, but it will be at the cost of another franchise sliding down and copping all the recruitment issues, fan sniping etc etc that goes with that.
NOTE: I have never hid the fact that I give Tana more leeway than the Blues fans because of what he achieved as a player, captain and coaching my provincial team to a level not seen in over 30 years.
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@rotated said in Blues 2019 - (New Head Coach):
Wasn't a massive fan of MacDonald taking over from Tana the last time but I'll give this a chance...
But full credit for the Blues making a move. Tana has been an improvement on SJK and Lam but still ultimately was seemed outmatched and outclassed by other NZ franchise coaches. Still ultimately I would like to see a non-ex-AB coach though after now four on the trot.
In what way was Tana an improvement? He has a worse record than both those coaches, selected terrible squads and presided over some of the worst results in our history. 60fucking points conceded on Eden Park FFS.
@kirwan said in Blues 2019 - (New Head Coach):
@rotated said in Blues 2019 - (New Head Coach):
Wasn't a massive fan of MacDonald taking over from Tana the last time but I'll give this a chance...
But full credit for the Blues making a move. Tana has been an improvement on SJK and Lam but still ultimately was seemed outmatched and outclassed by other NZ franchise coaches. Still ultimately I would like to see a non-ex-AB coach though after now four on the trot.
In what way was Tana an improvement? He has a worse record than both those coaches, selected terrible squads and presided over some of the worst results in our history. 60fucking points conceded on Eden Park FFS.
To begin with Umaga has a better record than SJK just on pure numbers but it's much of a muchness and both have records between 40-46% as does Lam. They would rank as the three of the four worst coaches of NZ franchises in the 2010s - the argument would just be about order.
Kirwan is the easier one, under his tenure the Blues felt like the Melbourne Rebels. Where to start? The guy fundamentally didn't understand Super Rugby. Genuinely thought Benji Marshall would be able to play 10 at Super level? Personally exiled three future All Blacks and one Welsh international? Mick Byrne as an assistant coach? Captain Ali Williams? This year has proved yet again it must be bloody difficult to have Graham Henry full time on your staff and not be good. SJK achieved this.
Lam is a more debatable one. There were good times with Lam and for a period between 2010-11 I was of the opinion that with a quality 10 the Blues were title contenders. Of course, the solutions Lam came up with were underwhelming and bewildering to say the least. But it is fair to say in 2011 they played at a level that hasn't been reached under Umaga.
Going against him, Lam went 4-12 in 2012 with the best Blues squad since 2003. Allowed things to become so bad at the end that Woodcock felt compelled to leave. Lashing out at anonymous Blues fans for racist comments on talkback that were never located wasn't a high point. His selections were pretty odd at times, he had very little patience for some and blind loyalty to chaps like Brett. Lachie Munro marking up against Ioane on the wing for a semi-final?
Perhaps as a whole Lam was better than Umaga, but the 2012 season immediately preceding Kirwan was the worst of the bunch and the ripple effects from his tenure are still being felt today.
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@kirwan said in Blues 2019 - (New Head Coach):
@rotated said in Blues 2019 - (New Head Coach):
Wasn't a massive fan of MacDonald taking over from Tana the last time but I'll give this a chance...
But full credit for the Blues making a move. Tana has been an improvement on SJK and Lam but still ultimately was seemed outmatched and outclassed by other NZ franchise coaches. Still ultimately I would like to see a non-ex-AB coach though after now four on the trot.
In what way was Tana an improvement? He has a worse record than both those coaches, selected terrible squads and presided over some of the worst results in our history. 60fucking points conceded on Eden Park FFS.
To begin with Umaga has a better record than SJK just on pure numbers but it's much of a muchness and both have records between 40-46% as does Lam. They would rank as the three of the four worst coaches of NZ franchises in the 2010s - the argument would just be about order.
Kirwan is the easier one, under his tenure the Blues felt like the Melbourne Rebels. Where to start? The guy fundamentally didn't understand Super Rugby. Genuinely thought Benji Marshall would be able to play 10 at Super level? Personally exiled three future All Blacks and one Welsh international? Mick Byrne as an assistant coach? Captain Ali Williams? This year has proved yet again it must be bloody difficult to have Graham Henry full time on your staff and not be good. SJK achieved this.
Lam is a more debatable one. There were good times with Lam and for a period between 2010-11 I was of the opinion that with a quality 10 the Blues were title contenders. Of course, the solutions Lam came up with were underwhelming and bewildering to say the least. But it is fair to say in 2011 they played at a level that hasn't been reached under Umaga.
Going against him, Lam went 4-12 in 2012 with the best Blues squad since 2003. Allowed things to become so bad at the end that Woodcock felt compelled to leave. Lashing out at anonymous Blues fans for racist comments on talkback that were never located wasn't a high point. His selections were pretty odd at times, he had very little patience for some and blind loyalty to chaps like Brett. Lachie Munro marking up against Ioane on the wing for a semi-final?
Perhaps as a whole Lam was better than Umaga, but the 2012 season immediately preceding Kirwan was the worst of the bunch and the ripple effects from his tenure are still being felt today.
@rotated I'm not sure Kirwan ever really wanted Benji, that seemed like a back room decision, with his insurance sponsorship etc.
Anyway, it remains to be seen whether Rangi can turn this around. After all, he's just like Tana coming in, ex AB with a decent amount of coaching experience and some success. He may succeed or he may have similar results.
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@rotated I'm not sure Kirwan ever really wanted Benji, that seemed like a back room decision, with his insurance sponsorship etc.
Anyway, it remains to be seen whether Rangi can turn this around. After all, he's just like Tana coming in, ex AB with a decent amount of coaching experience and some success. He may succeed or he may have similar results.
@nepia For Rangi to make a major difference, he's probably going to need some luck with injuries. Will also be helpful if Nonu can still play.
Blues can put out a decent enough First XV, but really their only MAJOR acquisition in the offseason, is Big Karl. They've acquired a few others that are "solid enough" - but, Karl's though only one I'd say definitely makes the starting XV - maybe Nonu or Aumua plays centre.
That said, the guys who have come in - as a group - look better than the guys who've been cleaned out. Nonetheless it would have been a lot better IMO if they'd signed Abel, Olmsted, Manu and Rayasi. Missing all of them is a misfire!
2019 changes:
Out: Bryn Gatland (Highlanders), Jerome Kaino (Toulouse), Pauliasi Manu (Hino, Japan), George Moala (Clement Auvergne), Glenn Preston, Kara Pryor, Isaac Salmon, Mike Tamoaieta, Murphy Taramai, Dan Kirkpatrick, Matt Johnson.
In: (Karl Tu'inukuafe (Chiefs), Ezekiel Lindenmuth (Blues Development - Auckland), Jacob Pierce (Blues Development – North Harbour), Ma'a Nonu (Toulon), Marcel Renata (Hurricanes), Hoskins Sotutu (Blues Development - Auckland), Harry Plummer (Blues Development – Auckland), Tanielu Tele'a (Blues Development – Auckland), Tom Robinson (Northland), Jed Brown ( Ta$man), Levi Aumua ( Ta$man).
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@rotated I'm not sure Kirwan ever really wanted Benji, that seemed like a back room decision, with his insurance sponsorship etc.
Anyway, it remains to be seen whether Rangi can turn this around. After all, he's just like Tana coming in, ex AB with a decent amount of coaching experience and some success. He may succeed or he may have similar results.
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@nepia said in Blues 2019 - (New Head Coach):
@rotated I'm not sure Kirwan ever really wanted Benji, that seemed like a back room decision, with his insurance sponsorship etc.
He started him round 5 so he wasn't exactly shy about blooding him.
@rotated said in Blues 2019 - (New Head Coach):
@nepia said in Blues 2019 - (New Head Coach):
@rotated I'm not sure Kirwan ever really wanted Benji, that seemed like a back room decision, with his insurance sponsorship etc.
He started him round 5 so he wasn't exactly shy about blooding him.
That's different from actively recruiting him as a 10.
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Re Lam, there was steady improvement in the first three seasons and the 2011 side was the last genuinely good Blues side.
In 2012 there was a crazy amount of injuries across multiple positions. The second row was the worst hit. We were starting the 8th choice lock because 7 better locks were out. The forward pack imploded and it was a shocking year in terms of results
It's disingenuous to judge Lam solely on 2012. -
@nepia For Rangi to make a major difference, he's probably going to need some luck with injuries. Will also be helpful if Nonu can still play.
Blues can put out a decent enough First XV, but really their only MAJOR acquisition in the offseason, is Big Karl. They've acquired a few others that are "solid enough" - but, Karl's though only one I'd say definitely makes the starting XV - maybe Nonu or Aumua plays centre.
That said, the guys who have come in - as a group - look better than the guys who've been cleaned out. Nonetheless it would have been a lot better IMO if they'd signed Abel, Olmsted, Manu and Rayasi. Missing all of them is a misfire!
2019 changes:
Out: Bryn Gatland (Highlanders), Jerome Kaino (Toulouse), Pauliasi Manu (Hino, Japan), George Moala (Clement Auvergne), Glenn Preston, Kara Pryor, Isaac Salmon, Mike Tamoaieta, Murphy Taramai, Dan Kirkpatrick, Matt Johnson.
In: (Karl Tu'inukuafe (Chiefs), Ezekiel Lindenmuth (Blues Development - Auckland), Jacob Pierce (Blues Development – North Harbour), Ma'a Nonu (Toulon), Marcel Renata (Hurricanes), Hoskins Sotutu (Blues Development - Auckland), Harry Plummer (Blues Development – Auckland), Tanielu Tele'a (Blues Development – Auckland), Tom Robinson (Northland), Jed Brown ( Ta$man), Levi Aumua ( Ta$man).
@chris-b said in Blues 2019 - (New Head Coach):
@nepia For Rangi to make a major difference, he's probably going to need some luck with injuries. Will also be helpful if Nonu can still play.
Blues can put out a decent enough First XV, but really their only MAJOR acquisition in the offseason, is Big Karl. They've acquired a few others that are "solid enough" - but, Karl's though only one I'd say definitely makes the starting XV - maybe Nonu or Aumua plays centre.
That said, the guys who have come in - as a group - look better than the guys who've been cleaned out. Nonetheless it would have been a lot better IMO if they'd signed Abel, Olmsted, Manu and Rayasi. Missing all of them is a misfire!
2019 changes:
Out: Bryn Gatland (Highlanders), Jerome Kaino (Toulouse), Pauliasi Manu (Hino, Japan), George Moala (Clement Auvergne), Glenn Preston, Kara Pryor, Isaac Salmon, Mike Tamoaieta, Murphy Taramai, Dan Kirkpatrick, Matt Johnson.
In: (Karl Tu'inukuafe (Chiefs), Ezekiel Lindenmuth (Blues Development - Auckland), Jacob Pierce (Blues Development – North Harbour), Ma'a Nonu (Toulon), Marcel Renata (Hurricanes), Hoskins Sotutu (Blues Development - Auckland), Harry Plummer (Blues Development – Auckland), Tanielu Tele'a (Blues Development – Auckland), Tom Robinson (Northland), Jed Brown ( Ta$man), Levi Aumua ( Ta$man).
It will be interesting to see who he picks as captain - Gibson, Tuipulotu, Parsons, Pulu are the ones with some experience. Not many other options
