Exodus
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@gt12 yeah, I don't know why and I know it's pretty much criminal to say here, but I find Retallick rather overrated. I feel like he had a couple of seasons where he was a bit of a beast, but I don't think I'd have him in my all time.
@gt12 yeah, I don't know why and I know it's pretty much criminal to say here, but I find Retallick rather overrated. I feel like he had a couple of seasons where he was a bit of a beast, but I don't think I'd have him in my all time.
Huh there's a loud anti-BBBR squad on here, I see you've already picked up a like from the squad leader.
@gt12 He was in way better form last year than he was given credit for, whereas Whitelock was fawned over for similar form, so it's swings and roundabouts to how they're rated really. That 2015 steal is anything but underrated, it's constantly brought up (and deservedly so).
I love them both, the guy who plays for the Magpies/Chiefs shades it for me over the guy who has the double negative of being from the Poo and plays for the Crusaders obviously.
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@gt12 yeah, I don't know why and I know it's pretty much criminal to say here, but I find Retallick rather overrated. I feel like he had a couple of seasons where he was a bit of a beast, but I don't think I'd have him in my all time.
Huh there's a loud anti-BBBR squad on here, I see you've already picked up a like from the squad leader.
@gt12 He was in way better form last year than he was given credit for, whereas Whitelock was fawned over for similar form, so it's swings and roundabouts to how they're rated really. That 2015 steal is anything but underrated, it's constantly brought up (and deservedly so).
I love them both, the guy who plays for the Magpies/Chiefs shades it for me over the guy who has the double negative of being from the Poo and plays for the Crusaders obviously.
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Liam Allen has signed an injury replacement contract with Lyon, to cover for injured Jordan Taufua (neck injury) and Maxime Gouzou (ACL), starting in March until ????
https://www.lourugby.fr/liam-allen-rejoint-le-lou-en-tant-que-joker-medical
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Blade Thompson retires after head injury -
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-rugby-fans-favourite-quits-26257249 -
@Bovidae He's the type of player who unfortunately is a big loss, never going to be an AB , but so important to depth!
@Bovidae He's the type of player who unfortunately is a big loss, never going to be an AB , but so important to depth!
A little more than that IMO.
We are very quick to write players off in NZ if they don't look test standard after a couple of years.
Nankivell is 26 and each year he has shown improvements to his game while gaining experience. He is exactly the type of player that other countries target, qualify then turn back at us (eg Lowe, JGP etc).
Not saying he will be an international elsewhere but does roughly fit that scenario.
The concern isn't the other teams getting him, it is us missing out on possibly having a 28 year old, very experienced midfield player in the best form of his life as all the pieces of the puzzle come together for him.
Evidence in NZ over recen times though shows that those players are usually ignored in favour of some flash young potential that has to learn on the job.
Pity. -
Blade Thompson retires after head injury -
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-rugby-fans-favourite-quits-26257249@Daffy-Jaffy said in Exodus:
Blade Thompson retires after head injury -
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-rugby-fans-favourite-quits-26257249That's sad to hear, he's the third player from the 2015 Hurricanes to retire with concussion issues (Goodes and Broadhurst were the others).
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@Bovidae He's the type of player who unfortunately is a big loss, never going to be an AB , but so important to depth!
A little more than that IMO.
We are very quick to write players off in NZ if they don't look test standard after a couple of years.
Nankivell is 26 and each year he has shown improvements to his game while gaining experience. He is exactly the type of player that other countries target, qualify then turn back at us (eg Lowe, JGP etc).
Not saying he will be an international elsewhere but does roughly fit that scenario.
The concern isn't the other teams getting him, it is us missing out on possibly having a 28 year old, very experienced midfield player in the best form of his life as all the pieces of the puzzle come together for him.
Evidence in NZ over recen times though shows that those players are usually ignored in favour of some flash young potential that has to learn on the job.
Pity. -
@Crucial I would have picked him ahead of RTS, who was only in the ABs on league reputation and perceived potential, and nothing else.
@Stargazer said in Exodus:
@Crucial I would have picked him ahead of RTS, who was only in the ABs on league reputation and perceived potential, and nothing else.
I'm not saying he is AB material at the moment just that he looks to be still on the up and by the time he reaches his 'best' he could be a very good player with heaps of experience. Has some rough edges and decision making issues at times but they usually disappear over time.
It is hard though. What do you do with players in that boat to keep them? Not quite at the level for high salary or high level games but could get there and be very valuable. -
@Stargazer said in Exodus:
@Crucial I would have picked him ahead of RTS, who was only in the ABs on league reputation and perceived potential, and nothing else.
I'm not saying he is AB material at the moment just that he looks to be still on the up and by the time he reaches his 'best' he could be a very good player with heaps of experience. Has some rough edges and decision making issues at times but they usually disappear over time.
It is hard though. What do you do with players in that boat to keep them? Not quite at the level for high salary or high level games but could get there and be very valuable. -
@Bovidae He's the type of player who unfortunately is a big loss, never going to be an AB , but so important to depth!
A little more than that IMO.
We are very quick to write players off in NZ if they don't look test standard after a couple of years.
Nankivell is 26 and each year he has shown improvements to his game while gaining experience. He is exactly the type of player that other countries target, qualify then turn back at us (eg Lowe, JGP etc).
Not saying he will be an international elsewhere but does roughly fit that scenario.
The concern isn't the other teams getting him, it is us missing out on possibly having a 28 year old, very experienced midfield player in the best form of his life as all the pieces of the puzzle come together for him.
Evidence in NZ over recen times though shows that those players are usually ignored in favour of some flash young potential that has to learn on the job.
Pity.@Crucial yep, its these quality Super rugby players, who usually play NPC as well that provide so much to NZ Rugby, and help those younger guys they play with and against...this is where our depth is eroding.
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@Bovidae He's the type of player who unfortunately is a big loss, never going to be an AB , but so important to depth!
A little more than that IMO.
We are very quick to write players off in NZ if they don't look test standard after a couple of years.
Nankivell is 26 and each year he has shown improvements to his game while gaining experience. He is exactly the type of player that other countries target, qualify then turn back at us (eg Lowe, JGP etc).
Not saying he will be an international elsewhere but does roughly fit that scenario.
The concern isn't the other teams getting him, it is us missing out on possibly having a 28 year old, very experienced midfield player in the best form of his life as all the pieces of the puzzle come together for him.
Evidence in NZ over recen times though shows that those players are usually ignored in favour of some flash young potential that has to learn on the job.
Pity.@Bovidae He's the type of player who unfortunately is a big loss, never going to be an AB , but so important to depth!
A little more than that IMO.
We are very quick to write players off in NZ if they don't look test standard after a couple of years.Bundee Aki and James Lowe....
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@Bovidae He's the type of player who unfortunately is a big loss, never going to be an AB , but so important to depth!
A little more than that IMO.
We are very quick to write players off in NZ if they don't look test standard after a couple of years.Bundee Aki and James Lowe....
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@Bovidae He's the type of player who unfortunately is a big loss, never going to be an AB , but so important to depth!
A little more than that IMO.
We are very quick to write players off in NZ if they don't look test standard after a couple of years.
Nankivell is 26 and each year he has shown improvements to his game while gaining experience. He is exactly the type of player that other countries target, qualify then turn back at us (eg Lowe, JGP etc).
Not saying he will be an international elsewhere but does roughly fit that scenario.
The concern isn't the other teams getting him, it is us missing out on possibly having a 28 year old, very experienced midfield player in the best form of his life as all the pieces of the puzzle come together for him.
Evidence in NZ over recen times though shows that those players are usually ignored in favour of some flash young potential that has to learn on the job.
Pity.@Bovidae He's the type of player who unfortunately is a big loss, never going to be an AB , but so important to depth!
A little more than that IMO.
We are very quick to write players off in NZ if they don't look test standard after a couple of years.The more I read this, the more I'm wondering what you mean. Who's "we"? And how are "we" writing players off?
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@canefan tbf I think Lowe always looked the goods but he was getting on a bit and wasn't the next big thing 22 year old we seem to always want and was a bit injury prone IIRC, so never even got a shot.
@taniwharugby said in Exodus:
@canefan tbf I think Lowe always looked the goods but he was getting on a bit and wasn't the next big thing 22 year old we seem to always want and was a bit injury prone IIRC, so never even got a shot.
I was just pointing out two guys who never really seemed close to ABs selection but we're clearly good enough when put into the right situation. We can't help it when players leave, but when young players on the cusp of the ABs leave it hurts. Guys like Piatau and Luatua had a chance to be in the side for a while, but left
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@Bovidae He's the type of player who unfortunately is a big loss, never going to be an AB , but so important to depth!
A little more than that IMO.
We are very quick to write players off in NZ if they don't look test standard after a couple of years.The more I read this, the more I'm wondering what you mean. Who's "we"? And how are "we" writing players off?
@Stargazer said in Exodus:
@Bovidae He's the type of player who unfortunately is a big loss, never going to be an AB , but so important to depth!
A little more than that IMO.
We are very quick to write players off in NZ if they don't look test standard after a couple of years.The more I read this, the more I'm wondering what you mean. Who's "we"? And how are "we" writing players off?
I suppose that the “we” that matters is the high level selectors and player development people.
The other “we” is just comment from general punters and mediathat compare players still developing with the finished level and declare that they’ll never make it.
The comments around Aki, JGP and Lowe on these forums for example were numerous in condemnation.
For every poster that is currently claiming great knowledge because the have argued for Jordie at 12 there have been 5 saying that those guys would never be international standard.
That kind of public sentiment does filter through and combine it with a lack of opportunity or planning from on high and no wonder players look elsewhere. -
@Stargazer said in Exodus:
@Bovidae He's the type of player who unfortunately is a big loss, never going to be an AB , but so important to depth!
A little more than that IMO.
We are very quick to write players off in NZ if they don't look test standard after a couple of years.The more I read this, the more I'm wondering what you mean. Who's "we"? And how are "we" writing players off?
I suppose that the “we” that matters is the high level selectors and player development people.
The other “we” is just comment from general punters and mediathat compare players still developing with the finished level and declare that they’ll never make it.
The comments around Aki, JGP and Lowe on these forums for example were numerous in condemnation.
For every poster that is currently claiming great knowledge because the have argued for Jordie at 12 there have been 5 saying that those guys would never be international standard.
That kind of public sentiment does filter through and combine it with a lack of opportunity or planning from on high and no wonder players look elsewhere.@Crucial I don't agree with you at all about this.
There may have been posters here to say that these players would never make the ABs, and on social media. (You usually don't see the media write it themselves). There's generally a lot of player fluffing on the Fern (and elsewhere) and there's the opposite and some push-back against the fluffing, too. And probably with some valid reasons, at the time. I can't remember any comments about Aki, but Lowe was regularly injured (he also had his arthritis issues) and - above all - had stiff competition (J Savea, Naholo, R Ioane, NMS). And JGP just wasn't that good when he played in NZ. The signs that he could develop into a test player just weren't there, I think. By the way, why would players care what people on forums and social media say?
I haven't seen/heard selectors/"player development people" say that these players would never make the ABs. And how would you know? They'd never say it (publically). They'd probably just justify the players that they did pick ahead of them. Lowe and JGP could also have concluded from their MABs selections that they weren't that far off, but apparently they didn't. IMO, these players just weren't selected for the ABs, gave up trying and decided to go for the money overseas. A lot of players do that, unfortunately. Give up too soon and sign lucrative contracts that pay more than they'd earn in NZ.
I remember a lot of discussion about NZ's second XV (Junior ABs, NZ 'A', NZ Barbarians) and that this team should have been used more. That's probably the only criticism that you can have against NZR in this respect, because it could have kept some players with potential in NZ for longer.
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@Crucial I don't agree with you at all about this.
There may have been posters here to say that these players would never make the ABs, and on social media. (You usually don't see the media write it themselves). There's generally a lot of player fluffing on the Fern (and elsewhere) and there's the opposite and some push-back against the fluffing, too. And probably with some valid reasons, at the time. I can't remember any comments about Aki, but Lowe was regularly injured (he also had his arthritis issues) and - above all - had stiff competition (J Savea, Naholo, R Ioane, NMS). And JGP just wasn't that good when he played in NZ. The signs that he could develop into a test player just weren't there, I think. By the way, why would players care what people on forums and social media say?
I haven't seen/heard selectors/"player development people" say that these players would never make the ABs. And how would you know? They'd never say it (publically). They'd probably just justify the players that they did pick ahead of them. Lowe and JGP could also have concluded from their MABs selections that they weren't that far off, but apparently they didn't. IMO, these players just weren't selected for the ABs, gave up trying and decided to go for the money overseas. A lot of players do that, unfortunately. Give up too soon and sign lucrative contracts that pay more than they'd earn in NZ.
I remember a lot of discussion about NZ's second XV (Junior ABs, NZ 'A', NZ Barbarians) and that this team should have been used more. That's probably the only criticism that you can have against NZR in this respect, because it could have kept some players with potential in NZ for longer.
@Stargazer said in Exodus:
@Crucial I don't agree with you at all about this.
There may have been posters here to say that these players would never make the ABs, and on social media. (You usually don't see the media write it themselves). There's generally a lot of player fluffing on the Fern (and elsewhere) and there's the opposite and some push-back against the fluffing, too. And probably with some valid reasons, at the time. I can't remember any comments about Aki, but Lowe was regularly injured (he also had his arthritis issues) and - above all - had stiff competition (J Savea, Naholo, R Ioane, NMS). And JGP just wasn't that good when he played in NZ. The signs that he could develop into a test player just weren't there, I think. By the way, why would players care what people on forums and social media say?
I haven't seen/heard selectors/"player development people" say that these players would never make the ABs. And how would you know? They'd never say it (publically). They'd probably just justify the players that they did pick ahead of them. Lowe and JGP could also have concluded from their MABs selections that they weren't that far off, but apparently they didn't. IMO, these players just weren't selected for the ABs, gave up trying and decided to go for the money overseas. A lot of players do that, unfortunately. Give up too soon and sign lucrative contracts that pay more than they'd earn in NZ.
I remember a lot of discussion about NZ's second XV (Junior ABs, NZ 'A', NZ Barbarians) and that this team should have been used more. That's probably the only criticism that you can have against NZR in this respect, because it could have kept some players with potential in NZ for longer.
I don't think we are disagreeing. I don't think the public criticisms play a big part and we don't know the official conversations. What I was fishing at was that there is no obvious plan to allow players that mature later (or are in positions where experience is a huge factor) to have that room to develop AND not be looking elsewhere for better money or opportunities.I don't have the answers just think it is a pity when 'exodus' players reach their peak and potential after we have lost them.
We don't select from overseas (not advocating that we do) so we can't claw them back easily.
As I said, it is just a pity and I get frustrated at the culture of always hyping the next shiny object we see and having them learn on the job.
