Ireland vs All Blacks (2018)
-
@rocky-rockbottom said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
worst part is if Hansen's ego leads to him digging his heels in re;selections/positions, reducing us to just hoping the failures somehow get better instead of proactively rocketing them up the arse.
Hopefully he remembers that the 2011 team and tactics in large part was a response to the 2008/9 Boks. They finally stopped trying to impose a helter-skelter style and admit they had to be able to negate and withstand the box kick first and foremost and becoming more physical in the forwards.
I would prefer he accepts the Ireland/BIL style of game is giving them fits and perhaps select and play accordingly. Our aerial game on defence needs to improve and our kicking game needs to improve - to achieve either it would take a tough personnel decision.
@rotated said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@rocky-rockbottom said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
worst part is if Hansen's ego leads to him digging his heels in re;selections/positions, reducing us to just hoping the failures somehow get better instead of proactively rocketing them up the arse.
Hopefully he remembers that the 2011 team and tactics in large part was a response to the 2008/9 Boks. They finally stopped trying to impose a helter-skelter style and admit they had to be able to negate and withstand the box kick first and foremost and becoming more physical in the forwards.
I would prefer he accepts the Ireland/BIL style of game is giving them fits and perhaps select and play accordingly. Our aerial game on defence needs to improve and our kicking game needs to improve - to achieve either it would take a tough personnel decision.
Do we have anyone that can implement a better kicking game though? Beauden and DMac are erratic, Mo'unga more consistent but still not great (am comparing him to world class players like Carter here). Our midfield can't kick, BFA again not a great kicking game. I don't think we have the personnel - we look much, much better when we keep ball in hand so I think our gameplan really needs to centre around that. Which maybe it will come WC time.
-
@mariner4life said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Between the 60th and 70th minute the Irish were out on their feet, and that was our chance. And repeated shit options and panic plays fucked us (Barrett with two of them) and we turned the ball over with the line beckoning.
Then they got to 10 to go, and got a 2nd wind, and, like England last week, were easily the better team over the closing stages.
That last period was definitely not "keeping the powder dry" that was team under pressure who didn't know what to do when stuck in their end. That they got the final break out and had one final attack was a credit to them, but i have never seen ab AN side more clueless than that period in their own 22 leading to Read dropping hte ball from an awful awful Barrett pass.
Actually thinking back, it fucks me off how DMac is viewed as this massive risk of a player, when Barrett is as much of a turnover risk, if not more given the evidence of yesterday morning.
I look at the final score, and the final play, and think "close game" but that is tempered by the Irish getting over the line twice more, and the ABs never actually looking like scoring a try.
With 15 to go , I honestly thought here we go , we will run over the top of them , we started to get some ball ,
and its become so customary , you almost take it for granted ,Credit to ireland , they are more composed under pressure than any opposition I can think of for some time , they made us look like the panic merchants , which is something we usually do to Australia
@kiwiinmelb said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
With 15 to go , I honestly thought here we go , we will run over the top of them , we started to get some ball,
and its become so customary , you almost take it for granted ,Read alluded to the fact that they wanted to up the tempo and use their fitness in the 2nd half but the continual stoppages didn't allow any flow. Good tactics by Ireland if you can get away with it.
-
@rotated said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@rocky-rockbottom said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
worst part is if Hansen's ego leads to him digging his heels in re;selections/positions, reducing us to just hoping the failures somehow get better instead of proactively rocketing them up the arse.
Hopefully he remembers that the 2011 team and tactics in large part was a response to the 2008/9 Boks. They finally stopped trying to impose a helter-skelter style and admit they had to be able to negate and withstand the box kick first and foremost and becoming more physical in the forwards.
I would prefer he accepts the Ireland/BIL style of game is giving them fits and perhaps select and play accordingly. Our aerial game on defence needs to improve and our kicking game needs to improve - to achieve either it would take a tough personnel decision.
Do we have anyone that can implement a better kicking game though? Beauden and DMac are erratic, Mo'unga more consistent but still not great (am comparing him to world class players like Carter here). Our midfield can't kick, BFA again not a great kicking game. I don't think we have the personnel - we look much, much better when we keep ball in hand so I think our gameplan really needs to centre around that. Which maybe it will come WC time.
@no-quarter Also, we did so many stupid box kicks/high kicks in the middle of the park at times when we should have been holding the ball. Its play like this that makes me lean towards the keeping the powder dry theory.
-
@kiwiinmelb said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
With 15 to go , I honestly thought here we go , we will run over the top of them , we started to get some ball,
and its become so customary , you almost take it for granted ,Read alluded to the fact that they wanted to up the tempo and use their fitness in the 2nd half but the continual stoppages didn't allow any flow. Good tactics by Ireland if you can get away with it.
@bovidae Problem is that the British teams have improved their fitness a lot over the past couple of years. The ABs are no longer able to pile on points against them in the last ten of an international as once they were.
Scotland last year, England and Ireland this year. All matched or bettered the ABs in the last ten minutes.
-
@no-quarter Also, we did so many stupid box kicks/high kicks in the middle of the park at times when we should have been holding the ball. Its play like this that makes me lean towards the keeping the powder dry theory.
@nepia I guess the question that should be asked is, did the kicks (all 6,000,000 of them) end up where they were supposed to?
Fox alluded to the kicking game last week saying that against England some of our kicks were going too long or too short, if Ireland anticipated a kicking game and given they were on point, it would exaggerate a poor kicking game?
-
@no-quarter Also, we did so many stupid box kicks/high kicks in the middle of the park at times when we should have been holding the ball. Its play like this that makes me lean towards the keeping the powder dry theory.
@nepia said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@no-quarter Also, we did so many stupid box kicks/high kicks in the middle of the park at times when we should have been holding the ball. Its play like this that makes me lean towards the keeping the powder dry theory.
Yeah I didn't even mention the halfbacks. Both of their kicking games are shit, and no idea about TTT. It's just not a strong point for us right now.
-
@no-quarter said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
even mention the halfbacks. Both of their kicking games are shit, and no idea about TTT. It's just not a strong point for us right now.
and yet A Smith had a great kicking game, surely you dont lose the skill just because Byrne isnt there any more? That said, his game has been stagnated and regressing since his toilet escapade...wasnt that just prior to the Chicago loss too?
-
@bovidae Problem is that the British teams have improved their fitness a lot over the past couple of years. The ABs are no longer able to pile on points against them in the last ten of an international as once they were.
Scotland last year, England and Ireland this year. All matched or bettered the ABs in the last ten minutes.
@sparky Read was referring to the entire 2nd half not just the last 10 mins. While I agree that there probably isn't that much difference in fitness levels now between the hemispheres having players go down injured allows you to have a breather and reset so you aren't as stressed physically. The SA super rugby teams used to always do this.
-
@sparky Read was referring to the entire 2nd half not just the last 10 mins. While I agree that there probably isn't that much difference in fitness levels now between the hemispheres having players go down injured allows you to have a breather and reset so you aren't as stressed physically. The SA super rugby teams used to always do this.
@bovidae said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@sparky Read was referring to the entire 2nd half not just the last 10 mins. While I agree that there probably isn't that much difference in fitness levels now between the hemispheres having players go down injured allows you to have a breather and reset so you aren't as stressed physically. The SA super rugby teams used to always do this.
if our tactics are wait for bad kicks, and for the opposition to not delay the game, then we are more fucked than i thought
-
@nepia said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@no-quarter Also, we did so many stupid box kicks/high kicks in the middle of the park at times when we should have been holding the ball. Its play like this that makes me lean towards the keeping the powder dry theory.
Yeah I didn't even mention the halfbacks. Both of their kicking games are shit, and no idea about TTT. It's just not a strong point for us right now.
-
@no-quarter Would TKB have been a starting option had he not left NZ? I think against the physical teams like Ireland and SA, we need a big strong halfback who can make darts around the rucks etc to suck some of their big forwards in.
-
@no-quarter Also, we did so many stupid box kicks/high kicks in the middle of the park at times when we should have been holding the ball. Its play like this that makes me lean towards the keeping the powder dry theory.
@nepia said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@no-quarter Also, we did so many stupid box kicks/high kicks in the middle of the park at times when we should have been holding the ball. Its play like this that makes me lean towards the keeping the powder dry theory.
One of those 1014 podcasts mentioned that every team wants to kick in that part of the field. First I'd properly thought of it but looking around it seems on the mark.
Those podcasts/videos really are an eye opener into the complexities of the pro game. Little things like spreading rucks and making defenders run an extra metre or so or where a defender goes after a tackle. Pretty much analysed to the nth degree.
I think the kicking is more about execution than not kicking. Just my take
-
Brilliant take on it all from the Irish Times bless them
@nevorian said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Brilliant take on it all from the Irish Times bless them
If this was slightly more dour, less funny and less wordy it could have been written by a Scotsman.
-
For me, the "powder dry" stuff is fueled by Hansen's repeated insistence that they're bedding in a new game plan and it's all going to take time.
At the last RWC we looked like rubbish in the early rounds, but things suddenly came good when needed, so maybe we need some trust.
On the other hand, in 1999, all the talk was of John Hart's secret plan that was going to be unveiled to the shock and awe of all. Presumably he was saving it for the final!
-
@rotated said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@rocky-rockbottom said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
worst part is if Hansen's ego leads to him digging his heels in re;selections/positions, reducing us to just hoping the failures somehow get better instead of proactively rocketing them up the arse.
Hopefully he remembers that the 2011 team and tactics in large part was a response to the 2008/9 Boks. They finally stopped trying to impose a helter-skelter style and admit they had to be able to negate and withstand the box kick first and foremost and becoming more physical in the forwards.
I would prefer he accepts the Ireland/BIL style of game is giving them fits and perhaps select and play accordingly. Our aerial game on defence needs to improve and our kicking game needs to improve - to achieve either it would take a tough personnel decision.
Do we have anyone that can implement a better kicking game though? Beauden and DMac are erratic, Mo'unga more consistent but still not great (am comparing him to world class players like Carter here). Our midfield can't kick, BFA again not a great kicking game. I don't think we have the personnel - we look much, much better when we keep ball in hand so I think our gameplan really needs to centre around that. Which maybe it will come WC time.
@no-quarter said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@rotated said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@rocky-rockbottom said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
worst part is if Hansen's ego leads to him digging his heels in re;selections/positions, reducing us to just hoping the failures somehow get better instead of proactively rocketing them up the arse.
Hopefully he remembers that the 2011 team and tactics in large part was a response to the 2008/9 Boks. They finally stopped trying to impose a helter-skelter style and admit they had to be able to negate and withstand the box kick first and foremost and becoming more physical in the forwards.
I would prefer he accepts the Ireland/BIL style of game is giving them fits and perhaps select and play accordingly. Our aerial game on defence needs to improve and our kicking game needs to improve - to achieve either it would take a tough personnel decision.
Do we have anyone that can implement a better kicking game though? Beauden and DMac are erratic, Mo'unga more consistent but still not great (am comparing him to world class players like Carter here). Our midfield can't kick, BFA again not a great kicking game. I don't think we have the personnel - we look much, much better when we keep ball in hand so I think our gameplan really needs to centre around that. Which maybe it will come WC time.
Sheesh NQ that’s starting to sound like an Aussie “we don’t have the cattle” post....
-
Relying on fitness towards the end to win is so Gordon Tietjens. Great for a while, even a long time. Eventually the opposing squads cotton on and it ends increasingly badly...
@donsteppa said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Relying on fitness towards the end to win is so Gordon Tietjens. Great for a while, even a long time. Eventually the opposing squads cotton on and it ends increasingly badly...
I see what you did there
-
@nepia said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@no-quarter Also, we did so many stupid box kicks/high kicks in the middle of the park at times when we should have been holding the ball. Its play like this that makes me lean towards the keeping the powder dry theory.
One of those 1014 podcasts mentioned that every team wants to kick in that part of the field. First I'd properly thought of it but looking around it seems on the mark.
Those podcasts/videos really are an eye opener into the complexities of the pro game. Little things like spreading rucks and making defenders run an extra metre or so or where a defender goes after a tackle. Pretty much analysed to the nth degree.
I think the kicking is more about execution than not kicking. Just my take
@siam said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@nepia said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@no-quarter Also, we did so many stupid box kicks/high kicks in the middle of the park at times when we should have been holding the ball. Its play like this that makes me lean towards the keeping the powder dry theory.
One of those 1014 podcasts mentioned that every team wants to kick in that part of the field. First I'd properly thought of it but looking around it seems on the mark.
Those podcasts/videos really are an eye opener into the complexities of the pro game. Little things like spreading rucks and making defenders run an extra metre or so or where a defender goes after a tackle. Pretty much analysed to the nth degree.
I think the kicking is more about execution than not kicking. Just my take
I agree. I actually don’t mind 90% of the kicking options we’ve take but our execution has been poor. But you can actually see what they are trying to achieve but the lack of accuracy has made us look ordinary.
I like Ben Smith at fullback but it’s plain as day why he plays on the wing because he’s the one guy that actually chases the high ball in attack. We need both our wingers to do that and as Barrett drops back we have sufficient cover for them to do so.
If DMac is persisted with I too wouldn’t mind seeing him on the wing for that reason. He has the pace and the game to be a very good chase down winger. I’ve never rated his kicking game.
( joking
)
