Nations Championship?
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@mofitzy_ said in World League Rugby / Nations Championship:
@Derm-McCrum
Cheaper foreign players too.There’s no ‘too’. Since we’ve just established that it would not benefit the vast majority of European clubs, particularly those in the PRO14, Championship and PROD2.
Cheaper foreign players - how and why?
@Derm-McCrum
Shouldn't need to explain this but here we go: this would have been a massive cash injection into national unions which means more money could be spent holding on to players which obviously makes them harder to buy. -
@Derm-McCrum
Shouldn't need to explain this but here we go: this would have been a massive cash injection into national unions which means more money could be spent holding on to players which obviously makes them harder to buy.@mofitzy_ said in World League Rugby / Nations Championship:
@Derm-McCrum
Shouldn't need to explain this but here we go: this would have been a massive cash injection into national unions which means more money could be spent holding on to players which obviously makes them harder to buy.That’s true in any scenario where there’s a substantial uplift in income. Meaning player costs would inflate even further across the board as agents seek a slice of the pie for their clients.
With the WR proposal off the table, the proposed alternative investment in 6N by CVC or another sports rights agency will also do this and player costs will rise and foreign players will cost more too. And again I’d argue that this is mainly an issue for some of the clubs, not all 66 of them.
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Article by the walrus in todays sunday times on this.....
I dont normally agree with him but he is mostly correct on this.
A huge opportunity missed to fund the global game, give more structure and meaning to the calendar year, and help national unions with new revenue streams which they are all crying out for especially in the south.
Transformation is required around how the game is governed to move it forward as it allows one country to veto something like this.
Now wonder agreeing something like a global season is seen as mission impossible.
Article below.......
Surely it must be a blessed sport that can refuse an injection of £6.1bn, leaving the paymaster poised with finger raised, ready to push the button for the biggest bank transfer the sport has ever seen. No thanks.
Last week, that sport duly responded to that raised finger with two raised fingers. Blessed? Try basket case.
There are myriad implications of the quiet burial of the controversial concept of a 12-team Nations Cup — driven by World Rugby’s small professional staff, chairman Sir Bill Beaumont and vice-chairman Agustin Pichot — partnered by the Infront company, who guaranteed the billions.
At least hearts were in the right place; there were wondrous benefits, and severe reservations. At least the World Rugby inner group were well-meaning, not entirely out for themselves.
But the rest of them? The major unions, the true powerbrokers? They were yet again mostly revealed in a ghastly light. In the elite professional game, World Rugby in terms of its senior unions and their representatives is dead as a driving force, unable to change itself, to disentangle petty national jealousies, and totally lacking in a global vision. It has turned blue from self-strangulation.
There are still two multi-million potential opportunities. CVC Capital Partners have offered £500m for a 30% holding in the Six Nations, and the Six Nations as a body also have their own plans, testing broadcast partners by acting together, rather than individually — although jealousy means the idea of the Six Nations as a body progressing together is staggeringly fanciful.
Big initiatives need unanimity among the major nations and most others need 75% of World Rugby’s ruling council to approve. So there you have it: rugby stuck fast, the idea of unanimity or even a strong vote in favour has become unattainable.
Self-interest is rampant. Ireland and Scotland are against anything new, or challenging, or anything that was England’s idea. The arrogance of New Zealand (seen as the biggest draw in the game, by themselves) tends to dissipate as they demand a half-share of every away gate, trying to hide the fact that their gates are feeble because they have never built a stadium; visitors would get half of nothing.
That that continues around the world means rugby never moves. The sport is still waiting for a structured season, for a proper window for the British & Irish Lions, and for the Lions to be treated properly instead of disgracefully.
Player welfare remains near non-existent; Test rugby, with its pomposities and ludicrous costs and virus-like spread, continues to treat like dirt the three main professional club and regional events in Europe. For the game’s grandees, the trough still overflows and has room for only selected snouts.
Outside the old guard? As with all the other issues, the wait goes on. Tier 2 may as well be Tier 102. There have been changes on the ruling council; a sudden injection of female administrators was made last year, and various Tier 2 nations also have their representatives, but the fact remains that whenever the old-guard nations want to stop any initiative or any funding for Tier 2 then they cannot be outvoted.
No one is saying that World Rugby had answered all the questions about the Nations Cup. But even to pursue it showed the most frantic optimism. Consider their efforts to have promotion and relegation in each of the two leagues in the new competition, which they hoped would allow aspiration; by the end, in a vain attempt to get the big brokers onside, they were prepared to allow a moratorium of two years, then four years, then six in which there would be no relegation. Plus parachute payments. How far backwards can anyone bend? It was still not enough.
The good news for the players and followers of Samoa, Fiji, Japan and USA is that one day their grandchildren might play in a fair world of promotion and aspiration.
World Rugby also wanted to build resources so that their proud ambition of having 24 competing teams in the 2027 World Cup might be realised. But they won’t have the money, when just a small slice of £6.1bn would have sufficed.
Where are the world-class administrators, the visionaries? If you look for real initiative, by the time you have appreciated Gareth Davies, the chairman of the Welsh Rugby Union, and his team, Nigel Melville at Twickenham, a few stroppy Frenchmen in Paris and Jurie Roux in South Africa then you start to struggle.
Sources at World Rugby at least acknowledge that Twickenham and Cardiff kept an open mind on the new concept, had valid reservations, and were prepared to discuss it.
If there is ever to be the dynamism rugby requires, if there is ever to be the semblance of goodness, then the governing body must gradually dissolve and move away from its present structure, allow non-aligned experts in every field, and different voices to run the game. God help the sport in which Scotland and Ireland effectively have a veto.
Surely, if you sit on the governing body of one of the greatest sports, and are well-rewarded, you must be good, or even inspired, and not just English or Irish or Fijian. To throw away billions is never inspiring, especially with no real hope of making up the deficit in cash, or with the joys of rugby.
Once, rugby had a sense of the wider good of the game. How quaint.
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“The arrogance of New Zealand... trying to hide the fact their gates are feeble”
He just can’t help himself, can he?
AB Derangement Syndrome.
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Article about the negotiations taking place about changes to the global season, more and more meaningful test matches for nations outside the Six Nations and Rugby Championship, (changes to the international window for the women's Six Nations,) following the failed attempts to agree on a World League Tournament, last year.
Although mentioned, this is not about the 6 Nations becoming 7 Nations.
The first significant step will come next month, when the World Rugby workshop, established to explore the identifying key principles of a potential and sustainable global competition model for teams outside of the Six Nations and Rugby Championship, is due to report its findings. There have to be conversations with the clubs and the players' unions. Questions remain about the future of the summer tours, tier-two competitions and emerging nations. Japan's future will be a key cog in establishing the new world order. The ambition is for the new competition to be in place by 2021, and the model will go to the World Rugby council meeting in May. That piece of the jigsaw would pave the way for a potential new tournament for the autumn Tests in Europe involving the top sides in both the northern and southern hemispheres, based on finishing positions from the Six Nations and Rugby Championship. Just a year after the collapse of the world league, it seems international rugby is finally ready to change..
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Article about the negotiations taking place about changes to the global season, more and more meaningful test matches for nations outside the Six Nations and Rugby Championship, (changes to the international window for the women's Six Nations,) following the failed attempts to agree on a World League Tournament, last year.
Although mentioned, this is not about the 6 Nations becoming 7 Nations.
The first significant step will come next month, when the World Rugby workshop, established to explore the identifying key principles of a potential and sustainable global competition model for teams outside of the Six Nations and Rugby Championship, is due to report its findings. There have to be conversations with the clubs and the players' unions. Questions remain about the future of the summer tours, tier-two competitions and emerging nations. Japan's future will be a key cog in establishing the new world order. The ambition is for the new competition to be in place by 2021, and the model will go to the World Rugby council meeting in May. That piece of the jigsaw would pave the way for a potential new tournament for the autumn Tests in Europe involving the top sides in both the northern and southern hemispheres, based on finishing positions from the Six Nations and Rugby Championship. Just a year after the collapse of the world league, it seems international rugby is finally ready to change..
@Stargazer said in World League Rugby / Nations Championship:
Article about the negotiations taking place about changes to the global season, more and more meaningful test matches for nations outside the Six Nations and Rugby Championship, (changes to the international window for the women's Six Nations,) following the failed attempts to agree on a World League Tournament, last year.
Although mentioned, this is not about the 6 Nations becoming 7 Nations.
The first significant step will come next month, when the World Rugby workshop, established to explore the identifying key principles of a potential and sustainable global competition model for teams outside of the Six Nations and Rugby Championship, is due to report its findings. There have to be conversations with the clubs and the players' unions. Questions remain about the future of the summer tours, tier-two competitions and emerging nations. Japan's future will be a key cog in establishing the new world order. The ambition is for the new competition to be in place by 2021, and the model will go to the World Rugby council meeting in May. That piece of the jigsaw would pave the way for a potential new tournament for the autumn Tests in Europe involving the top sides in both the northern and southern hemispheres, based on finishing positions from the Six Nations and Rugby Championship. Just a year after the collapse of the world league, it seems international rugby is finally ready to change..
There's some stories you see over and and over and over again and you know nothing ever happens . This is one of them.
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The World Nations Championship is being discussed again
- Two division global championship held every two years (not World Cup or British & Irish Lions)
- Six Nations and Rugby Championship nations plus two extra from south (eg. Fiji and Japan) in top division
- Emerging nations in second division
- Promotion and relegation still key pillar
- Accrue competition points for Six Nations and Rugby Championship Tests, plus Tests in July and November windows
- Potential fourth week in November for championship final
- July inbound tours to south go from three-Test tours by northern hemisphere nations to three different nations playing against each host nation
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The World Nations Championship is being discussed again
- Two division global championship held every two years (not World Cup or British & Irish Lions)
- Six Nations and Rugby Championship nations plus two extra from south (eg. Fiji and Japan) in top division
- Emerging nations in second division
- Promotion and relegation still key pillar
- Accrue competition points for Six Nations and Rugby Championship Tests, plus Tests in July and November windows
- Potential fourth week in November for championship final
- July inbound tours to south go from three-Test tours by northern hemisphere nations to three different nations playing against each host nation
@duluth said in World League Rugby / Nations Championship:
The World Nations Championship is being discussed again
- Two division global championship held every two years (not World Cup or British & Irish Lions)
- Six Nations and Rugby Championship nations plus two extra from south (eg. Fiji and Japan) in top division
- Emerging nations in second division
- Promotion and relegation still key pillar
- Accrue competition points for Six Nations and Rugby Championship Tests, plus Tests in July and November windows
- Potential fourth week in November for championship final
- July inbound tours to south go from three-Test tours by northern hemisphere nations to three different nations playing against each host nation
I like the idea of 3 different nations on tour here, really don’t like having the same team 3 times. But how will points work, 6 nations is play each other once, will the RC become the same? Italy will be in and out of the 6N like the Assyrian Empire! Say, Italy lose in 24, get demoted. So whomever tops emerging nations goes into 6 N for 25 and 26? In 26 they lose, obviously, and Italy comes back for 27, 28. Rinse and repeat. Same for Fiji down here.
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@duluth said in World League Rugby / Nations Championship:
The World Nations Championship is being discussed again
- Two division global championship held every two years (not World Cup or British & Irish Lions)
- Six Nations and Rugby Championship nations plus two extra from south (eg. Fiji and Japan) in top division
- Emerging nations in second division
- Promotion and relegation still key pillar
- Accrue competition points for Six Nations and Rugby Championship Tests, plus Tests in July and November windows
- Potential fourth week in November for championship final
- July inbound tours to south go from three-Test tours by northern hemisphere nations to three different nations playing against each host nation
I like the idea of 3 different nations on tour here, really don’t like having the same team 3 times. But how will points work, 6 nations is play each other once, will the RC become the same? Italy will be in and out of the 6N like the Assyrian Empire! Say, Italy lose in 24, get demoted. So whomever tops emerging nations goes into 6 N for 25 and 26? In 26 they lose, obviously, and Italy comes back for 27, 28. Rinse and repeat. Same for Fiji down here.
Yeah lots of details to be worked out. Which is why this probably fails again
I do like the general concept though. Every nation will have a decent Test schedule. Those Tests will be meaningful.. I hate the constant 'building for the RWC' four year cycle that Test rugby has at the moment
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Relegation and promotion in both the southern and northern divisions would also be part of the competition, although this would not affect the structure of the Six Nations.
Keen to see an explanation of the bolded bit.
The relegation/promotion aspect of the competition would allow nations such as Samoa and Tonga to play their way into the top division in the southern hemisphere, likely at the expense of Fiji or Japan.
These playoffs would also take place in the last weekend of November, creating a clear pathway for emerging nations while making sure there was a level of drama that doesn’t exist at present.So relegation to and promotion from what in the Southern hemisphere? Will there be a 2nd division? Or will they use the Pacific Nations Championship for that (Tonga, Samoa, USA and Canada?)
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Relegation and promotion in both the southern and northern divisions would also be part of the competition, although this would not affect the structure of the Six Nations.
Keen to see an explanation of the bolded bit.
The relegation/promotion aspect of the competition would allow nations such as Samoa and Tonga to play their way into the top division in the southern hemisphere, likely at the expense of Fiji or Japan.
These playoffs would also take place in the last weekend of November, creating a clear pathway for emerging nations while making sure there was a level of drama that doesn’t exist at present.So relegation to and promotion from what in the Southern hemisphere? Will there be a 2nd division? Or will they use the Pacific Nations Championship for that (Tonga, Samoa, USA and Canada?)
@Stargazer said in World League Rugby / Nations Championship:
Relegation and promotion in both the southern and northern divisions would also be part of the competition, although this would not affect the structure of the Six Nations.
Keen to see an explanation of the bolded bit.
The relegation/promotion aspect of the competition would allow nations such as Samoa and Tonga to play their way into the top division in the southern hemisphere, likely at the expense of Fiji or Japan.
These playoffs would also take place in the last weekend of November, creating a clear pathway for emerging nations while making sure there was a level of drama that doesn’t exist at present.So relegation to and promotion from what in the Southern hemisphere? Will there be a 2nd division? Or will they use the Pacific Nations Championship for that (Tonga, Samoa, USA and Canada?)
My read of that is the divisions are seperate from the competitions, and only the divisions have promotion and relegation.
So Italy could drop to division 2 of the global championship but still be in the six nations.
Same scenerio for the rugby champtionship.
Be a challenge to make the schedule work to accomodate individual comps, the global champs, lions then a world cup.
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I'll believe this all when I see it, lots of jaw jaw, not much results.
World Rugby's motto, I think
@Machpants said in World League Rugby / Nations Championship:
I'll believe this all when I see it, lots of jaw jaw, not much results.
World Rugby's motto, I think
This is the time to make a change, with so much disruption to rugby in the past few years, never been a better time to consider a fairer structure for all countries, not just the traditional strongholds.
Even as I typed that out my optimism slid away. No way Wales, Ireland, Scotland, etc vote for a comp structure that threatens the status quo.
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@Stargazer said in World League Rugby / Nations Championship:
Relegation and promotion in both the southern and northern divisions would also be part of the competition, although this would not affect the structure of the Six Nations.
Keen to see an explanation of the bolded bit.
The relegation/promotion aspect of the competition would allow nations such as Samoa and Tonga to play their way into the top division in the southern hemisphere, likely at the expense of Fiji or Japan.
These playoffs would also take place in the last weekend of November, creating a clear pathway for emerging nations while making sure there was a level of drama that doesn’t exist at present.So relegation to and promotion from what in the Southern hemisphere? Will there be a 2nd division? Or will they use the Pacific Nations Championship for that (Tonga, Samoa, USA and Canada?)
My read of that is the divisions are seperate from the competitions, and only the divisions have promotion and relegation.
So Italy could drop to division 2 of the global championship but still be in the six nations.
Same scenerio for the rugby champtionship.
Be a challenge to make the schedule work to accomodate individual comps, the global champs, lions then a world cup.
@Kirwan said in World League Rugby / Nations Championship:
@Stargazer said in World League Rugby / Nations Championship:
Relegation and promotion in both the southern and northern divisions would also be part of the competition, although this would not affect the structure of the Six Nations.
Keen to see an explanation of the bolded bit.
The relegation/promotion aspect of the competition would allow nations such as Samoa and Tonga to play their way into the top division in the southern hemisphere, likely at the expense of Fiji or Japan.
These playoffs would also take place in the last weekend of November, creating a clear pathway for emerging nations while making sure there was a level of drama that doesn’t exist at present.So relegation to and promotion from what in the Southern hemisphere? Will there be a 2nd division? Or will they use the Pacific Nations Championship for that (Tonga, Samoa, USA and Canada?)
My read of that is the divisions are seperate from the competitions, and only the divisions have promotion and relegation.
So Italy could drop to division 2 of the global championship but still be in the six nations.
Same scenerio for the rugby champtionship.
Be a challenge to make the schedule work to accomodate individual comps, the global champs, lions then a world cup.
so basically formaliding the "tiers"? if its not actual competition then i dont see the point
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@Kirwan said in World League Rugby / Nations Championship:
@Stargazer said in World League Rugby / Nations Championship:
Relegation and promotion in both the southern and northern divisions would also be part of the competition, although this would not affect the structure of the Six Nations.
Keen to see an explanation of the bolded bit.
The relegation/promotion aspect of the competition would allow nations such as Samoa and Tonga to play their way into the top division in the southern hemisphere, likely at the expense of Fiji or Japan.
These playoffs would also take place in the last weekend of November, creating a clear pathway for emerging nations while making sure there was a level of drama that doesn’t exist at present.So relegation to and promotion from what in the Southern hemisphere? Will there be a 2nd division? Or will they use the Pacific Nations Championship for that (Tonga, Samoa, USA and Canada?)
My read of that is the divisions are seperate from the competitions, and only the divisions have promotion and relegation.
So Italy could drop to division 2 of the global championship but still be in the six nations.
Same scenerio for the rugby champtionship.
Be a challenge to make the schedule work to accomodate individual comps, the global champs, lions then a world cup.
so basically formaliding the "tiers"? if its not actual competition then i dont see the point
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@Kiwiwomble not how I read it, just seperate comps.
Being in div 1 or 2 makes no difference to your particpation of the six nations.
@Kirwan oh, so it is a different comp? on top of the RC and 6N?
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Play 3 Nations of opposite hemisphere each touring window. Same as now except will always be the same 6, 3 at home, 3 over seas. So, say we get Ireland, Scotland, & Wales in July, then play England, France, and Italy in November. Then it seems 1st v 1st, 2nd v 2nd play of in Nov, obviously in NH cos that's where they all are. Maybe a double header. That will require another international weekend.
I don't think the RC, 6N count towards it.
Looks like the second division won't be up and running even if this does, i2024. This means no tier 2 teams, aside from Japan & Fiji, get to play tier 1 every second year, at least until second division starts up.
