AB squad for the Rugby Championship
-
@Kirwan said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@Darren said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
I'd start Jacobson.
I'm sure he won't let anyone down, lets give him a chance.At seven, sure. Not big enough for six.
I don't want to turn this into a weird Ardie-height spin off thing but he's the same measurements as Messam.
@KiwiMurph said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@Kirwan said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@Darren said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
I'd start Jacobson.
I'm sure he won't let anyone down, lets give him a chance.At seven, sure. Not big enough for six.
I don't want to turn this into a weird Ardie-height spin off thing but he's the same measurements as Messam.
And Jerry Collins.
-
Ardie might be similar on paper to Jerry & Liam but he isn't in person. Ardie is a bit of freak ball in hand and his ability to make yards through defenders belies his size. But offensive tackling is still a real let down where his impact when talking truely does match his size. His clearing out has got a lot better but is still behind Cane and Todd.
-
Fifita is still in the squad? I don't understand modern rugby anymore.
@antipodean said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
Fifita is still in the squad? I don't understand modern rugby anymore.
Fifita's special role in the squad is to guard the powder and to make sure it stays dry.
-
Ardie might be similar on paper to Jerry & Liam but he isn't in person. Ardie is a bit of freak ball in hand and his ability to make yards through defenders belies his size. But offensive tackling is still a real let down where his impact when talking truely does match his size. His clearing out has got a lot better but is still behind Cane and Todd.
-
@Kirwan it's the 10 situation leading up to 2011 all over again. They tried everyone, and no one stepped up. But at least that was just finding the back up.
This is trying to find a starting fucking blindside. And we don't even need them to live up to the last guy (one of our best ever) just be obviously to standard. And in 4 years, no one has done that. And so, 2 games out from a world cup, no one knows who is the starter (actually i assume the coaches do, because the alternative is insane).
Objectively, we have a set of pretty good props; two excellent hookers; two excellent locks and not a lot behind; two excellent opensides; nothing at 6; and an 8 who everyone is hoping is just priming himself for 4 more big tests.
That is, well, not ideal.
@mariner4life said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
it's the 10 situation leading up to 2011 all over again. They tried everyone, and no one stepped up.
Pretty apt comparison. In both cases we had the Help Wanted sign out the front of the shop for a fair while for that position both cases the selectors were dealt a bit of a dud hand through injuries and age curves which was compounded by a scattergun selection process that should have been far more methodical.
Irregardless I'm not sure there is an obvious solution that was missed in either case, so I'll hardly be calling for their head over the loose trio...
now the lack of a midfield after four years... that is a different story.
-
@Stargazer said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
It's fascinating to witness a TSF meltdown over a squad selection. :smiling_face_with_open_mouth:
It's been a while, probably the most criticism since 2004.
We have been spoiled with the likes of Carter, McCaw, Kaino, Nonu, etc over the years that when we have to put up with Franks, Todd, Fifita, a broken Read, and only one good winger it's bizzare.
@Kirwan said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
It's been a while, probably the most criticism since 2004.
It would be fun if we trying to chose between good options - but we aren't - unless we go for some promising young blood and hope that they step up. Continuing to use failed ones isn't great though. Probably left it too late to try others now, the selections have just looked stubborn over the last 2 years.
I really hope that I am wrong. Experience has been big at world cups so you never know...
-
@mariner4life said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
it's the 10 situation leading up to 2011 all over again. They tried everyone, and no one stepped up.
Pretty apt comparison. In both cases we had the Help Wanted sign out the front of the shop for a fair while for that position both cases the selectors were dealt a bit of a dud hand through injuries and age curves which was compounded by a scattergun selection process that should have been far more methodical.
Irregardless I'm not sure there is an obvious solution that was missed in either case, so I'll hardly be calling for their head over the loose trio...
now the lack of a midfield after four years... that is a different story.
-
@Kirwan said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
It's been a while, probably the most criticism since 2004.
It would be fun if we trying to chose between good options - but we aren't - unless we go for some promising young blood and hope that they step up. Continuing to use failed ones isn't great though. Probably left it too late to try others now, the selections have just looked stubborn over the last 2 years.
I really hope that I am wrong. Experience has been big at world cups so you never know...
@Snowy said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@Kirwan said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
It's been a while, probably the most criticism since 2004.
It would be fun if we trying to chose between good options - but we aren't - unless we go for some promising young blood and hope that they step up. Continuing to use failed ones isn't great though. Probably left it too late to try others now, the selections have just looked stubborn over the last 2 years.
I really hope that I am wrong. Experience has been big at world cups so you never know...
Yep, they are stubborn to a fault. Franks and Read are good examples of that, and SBW.
People put up with that when you win everything, but a Lions drawn series, two losses to Ireland, and a smattering of really average performances have us reversing into the World Cup.
In a way it means I can enjoy it a but more, as I have no expectations we are going to win. A team chock full of AB legends only barely pulled it off the last few times.
-
@rotated said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
now the lack of a midfield after four years... that is a different story.
They've had a midfield, it's just always broken.....
@Machpants said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@rotated said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
now the lack of a midfield after four years... that is a different story.
They've had a midfield, it's just always broken.....
A fetish for SBW/Crotty is not an excuse for not building a stable combo around those fit, international quality players who have been there for the past few years.
-
Hookers: Dane Coles, Liam Coltman and Codie Taylor
Props: Owen Franks, Nepo Laulala, Joe Moody, Atu Moli, Angus Ta'avao and Ofa Tuungafasi
Locks: Scott Barrett, Jackson Hemopo, Patrick Tuipulotu and Samuel Whitelock
Loose forwards: Sam Cane, Vaea Fifita, Luke Jacobson, Kieran Read, Ardie Savea and Matt Todd
Halfbacks: TJ Perenara, Aaron Smith and Brad Weber
First five-eighths: Beauden Barrett and Richie Mo'unga
Midfielders: Jack Goodhue, Ngani Laumape, Anton Lienert-Brown and Sonny Bill Williams
Utility backs: Braydon Ennor and Jordie Barrett
Outside backs: George Bridge, Rieko Ioane, Sevu Reece and Ben Smith
- Retallick certain, Crotty highly likely, Squire who knows, Perry doubt it
So I'd say there are 5 names to omit.
Hookers we have our RWC selection there. They HAVE to give Coltman another appearance IMO to show he can actually throw.
Props - Franks, Moody and Tuungafasi are certainties, after that I have no idea who will be unlucky, maybe Laulala
Locks - Not even sure if they take 4, probably depends if Retallick is fit from game 1. I thought they told us Hemopo wasn't a lock? I reckon Tuipolotou is most likely to miss out: only plays lock, and was pants in the first game
Loose forwards - I'd say Fafita an obvious choice to be omitted, which means he's no doubt nailed down as starting 6. If they are not going to move Read or Cane to 6, nor start Barrett, then I hope Jacobson and not Fafita gets Bledisloe 1.
Halfbacks - we have our RWC selection there
First-fives - ditto. They will take two, and probably TJP as emergency cover while waiting for Ioane to fly out if injury strikes (minimum 48 hrs in squad before allowed to take field)
Midfield - It's probably Laumape vs SBW or Crotty to be dropped. When was the last time the ABs played the same midfield 2 tests in a row?
Outside backs - Hopefully they give Ennor some more time, but I'm really uncertain to their thinking, other than that Ben Smith and you would think Reiko are certainties.
I can't remember such uncertainty around squad selection since maybe Laurie Mains took over from Griz and you weren't sure what his first selection would bring.
It will be a thing of genius if Hansen pulls this off.
-
Hookers: Dane Coles, Liam Coltman and Codie Taylor
Props: Owen Franks, Nepo Laulala, Joe Moody, Atu Moli, Angus Ta'avao and Ofa Tuungafasi
Locks: Scott Barrett, Jackson Hemopo, Patrick Tuipulotu and Samuel Whitelock
Loose forwards: Sam Cane, Vaea Fifita, Luke Jacobson, Kieran Read, Ardie Savea and Matt Todd
Halfbacks: TJ Perenara, Aaron Smith and Brad Weber
First five-eighths: Beauden Barrett and Richie Mo'unga
Midfielders: Jack Goodhue, Ngani Laumape, Anton Lienert-Brown and Sonny Bill Williams
Utility backs: Braydon Ennor and Jordie Barrett
Outside backs: George Bridge, Rieko Ioane, Sevu Reece and Ben Smith
- Retallick certain, Crotty highly likely, Squire who knows, Perry doubt it
So I'd say there are 5 names to omit.
Hookers we have our RWC selection there. They HAVE to give Coltman another appearance IMO to show he can actually throw.
Props - Franks, Moody and Tuungafasi are certainties, after that I have no idea who will be unlucky, maybe Laulala
Locks - Not even sure if they take 4, probably depends if Retallick is fit from game 1. I thought they told us Hemopo wasn't a lock? I reckon Tuipolotou is most likely to miss out: only plays lock, and was pants in the first game
Loose forwards - I'd say Fafita an obvious choice to be omitted, which means he's no doubt nailed down as starting 6. If they are not going to move Read or Cane to 6, nor start Barrett, then I hope Jacobson and not Fafita gets Bledisloe 1.
Halfbacks - we have our RWC selection there
First-fives - ditto. They will take two, and probably TJP as emergency cover while waiting for Ioane to fly out if injury strikes (minimum 48 hrs in squad before allowed to take field)
Midfield - It's probably Laumape vs SBW or Crotty to be dropped. When was the last time the ABs played the same midfield 2 tests in a row?
Outside backs - Hopefully they give Ennor some more time, but I'm really uncertain to their thinking, other than that Ben Smith and you would think Reiko are certainties.
I can't remember such uncertainty around squad selection since maybe Laurie Mains took over from Griz and you weren't sure what his first selection would bring.
It will be a thing of genius if Hansen pulls this off.
@Billy-Tell said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
It will be a thing of genius if Hansen pulls this off.
Even if he does, there's been an awful lot of Shawshank before the Redemption
-
If you fancy some loss insurance, Betfair has NZ at $2.40 favourites to win. Then England, SA, Wales, Ireland in the $7-10 range.
Just saying - a lazy 500 returns you a couple of hundy to drown your sorrows if we (as expected) shit our pants in public
-
If you fancy some loss insurance, Betfair has NZ at $2.40 favourites to win. Then England, SA, Wales, Ireland in the $7-10 range.
Just saying - a lazy 500 returns you a couple of hundy to drown your sorrows if we (as expected) shit our pants in public
@nzzp said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
If you fancy some loss insurance, Betfair has NZ at $2.40 favourites to win. Then England, SA, Wales, Ireland in the $7-10 range.
Just saying - a lazy 500 returns you a couple of hundy to drown your sorrows if we (as expected) shit our pants in public
I don't bet on that scale, but I'll be tempted to put something decent on Australia and South Africa. If anyone else wins, then we'll still have the most Cups. But if the yellow or green bastards do, then we'll only be equal best. And that will piss me off something chronic.
I'd quite enjoy a Wales or Ireland win, if it can't be us.
-
If you fancy some loss insurance, Betfair has NZ at $2.40 favourites to win. Then England, SA, Wales, Ireland in the $7-10 range.
Just saying - a lazy 500 returns you a couple of hundy to drown your sorrows if we (as expected) shit our pants in public
@nzzp said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
Betfair has NZ at $2.40 favourites to win
that is insane odds when you think about the last 12 months
Win/loss/draw to South Africa (2 at home) who are in our pool
Lost to Ireland
Beat England by a point (and an inch)
Just held on against Argentina.Fuck, Beteasy have us at $1.85. I wouldn't even look at a horse paying that!!
-
@Stargazer said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@mofitzy_ Who says Todd won't start in pool games (if Ardie is starting at 8 ) and Read gets a rest?
He almost certainly will. You could easily play Jacobson or Papalii at 7 in the tier 2 pool games though.
@mofitzy_ said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@Stargazer said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@mofitzy_ Who says Todd won't start in pool games (if Ardie is starting at 8 ) and Read gets a rest?
He almost certainly will. You could easily play Jacobson or Papalii at 7 in the tier 2 pool games though.
But why, when Todd is a better player and has proven himself over a number of years. You can start Todd against Tier 1 or 2 nation, without any issue. The other two whilst talented simply aren’t ready.
-
@nzzp said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
Betfair has NZ at $2.40 favourites to win
that is insane odds when you think about the last 12 months
Win/loss/draw to South Africa (2 at home) who are in our pool
Lost to Ireland
Beat England by a point (and an inch)
Just held on against Argentina.Fuck, Beteasy have us at $1.85. I wouldn't even look at a horse paying that!!
@mariner4life New Zealand were also massive favourites to win the Rugby Championship, which I thought was insane. Weren't SA paying nearly $5 last week?
-
@mofitzy_ said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@Stargazer said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@mofitzy_ Who says Todd won't start in pool games (if Ardie is starting at 8 ) and Read gets a rest?
He almost certainly will. You could easily play Jacobson or Papalii at 7 in the tier 2 pool games though.
But why, when Todd is a better player and has proven himself over a number of years. You can start Todd against Tier 1 or 2 nation, without any issue. The other two whilst talented simply aren’t ready.
@ACT-Crusader said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@mofitzy_ said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@Stargazer said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@mofitzy_ Who says Todd won't start in pool games (if Ardie is starting at 8 ) and Read gets a rest?
He almost certainly will. You could easily play Jacobson or Papalii at 7 in the tier 2 pool games though.
But why, when Todd is a better player and has proven himself over a number of years. You can start Todd against Tier 1 or 2 nation, without any issue. The other two whilst talented simply aren’t ready.
Because the others can play multiple positions whilst also being the 3rd option at 7 in the squad.
-
This selection for the first Bledisloe Test will give us a good idea of What Hansen is thinking for a Top 23.Unless all his rhetoric of the Bledisloe cup having great importance than the RC is another smokescreen.
Scott Barrett or Jason Hempo at 6 or we are going with Savea,Read,Cane not Fifitia that gives me less confidence in Hansen if that happens I don't want to see him in the 23.
I like Jacobsen but I can't see him being in the starting 15 this season. -
Hookers: Dane Coles, Liam Coltman and Codie Taylor
Props: Owen Franks, Nepo Laulala, Joe Moody, Atu Moli, Angus Ta'avao and Ofa Tuungafasi
Locks: Scott Barrett, Jackson Hemopo, Patrick Tuipulotu and Samuel Whitelock
Loose forwards: Sam Cane, Vaea Fifita, Luke Jacobson, Kieran Read, Ardie Savea and Matt Todd
Halfbacks: TJ Perenara, Aaron Smith and Brad Weber
First five-eighths: Beauden Barrett and Richie Mo'unga
Midfielders: Jack Goodhue, Ngani Laumape, Anton Lienert-Brown and Sonny Bill Williams
Utility backs: Braydon Ennor and Jordie Barrett
Outside backs: George Bridge, Rieko Ioane, Sevu Reece and Ben Smith
- Retallick certain, Crotty highly likely, Squire who knows, Perry doubt it
So I'd say there are 5 names to omit.
Hookers we have our RWC selection there. They HAVE to give Coltman another appearance IMO to show he can actually throw.
Props - Franks, Moody and Tuungafasi are certainties, after that I have no idea who will be unlucky, maybe Laulala
Locks - Not even sure if they take 4, probably depends if Retallick is fit from game 1. I thought they told us Hemopo wasn't a lock? I reckon Tuipolotou is most likely to miss out: only plays lock, and was pants in the first game
Loose forwards - I'd say Fafita an obvious choice to be omitted, which means he's no doubt nailed down as starting 6. If they are not going to move Read or Cane to 6, nor start Barrett, then I hope Jacobson and not Fafita gets Bledisloe 1.
Halfbacks - we have our RWC selection there
First-fives - ditto. They will take two, and probably TJP as emergency cover while waiting for Ioane to fly out if injury strikes (minimum 48 hrs in squad before allowed to take field)
Midfield - It's probably Laumape vs SBW or Crotty to be dropped. When was the last time the ABs played the same midfield 2 tests in a row?
Outside backs - Hopefully they give Ennor some more time, but I'm really uncertain to their thinking, other than that Ben Smith and you would think Reiko are certainties.
I can't remember such uncertainty around squad selection since maybe Laurie Mains took over from Griz and you weren't sure what his first selection would bring.
It will be a thing of genius if Hansen pulls this off.
@Billy-Tell In the props I think it will be Moli vs Perry and Ta'avao vs Laulala. Tim Perry has played one game and five minutes of another this year, so loosehead is Moli's to lose.
Basically Angus vs Nepo and I think Angus' mobility will win it for him.
I heard Sumo on the radio saying the selections are indicative that the ABs are hellbent on playing the game at pace, which rings true.
I wouldn't write Josh Ioane out of the equation yet. If they are planning on playing Richie and Beauden together in the big games then that's lots of workload and even more risk of a first five injury. If Beauden is slated to play fullback I'd take Ioane and probably leave Jordie at home.
-
In the forwards, I would start Laulala as he needs meaningful minutes. The other starting lock will dictate who plays no.6. I would pair Hemopo with Whitelock and bring Patty T off the bench. I am assuming Barrett isn't fit.
BUT if they put Fifita at 6 then their decision has been made. :disappointed_face:
