RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B)

[akan004]

@MajorRage Thanks. Will go and have a listen.

[mofitzy_]

@Stargazer said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):

Extended highlights clip with different camera angles:

Good thing they posted extended highlights as the initial highlights were a joke.

[taniwharugby]

@Machpants they arent actually tape, they are a super hightech flexible alloy made to look like tape, and has attractants to the cord in rugby shorts, to force the hands tackles down and encourage use of arms...cheats schmeats, innovative leaders

[Stargazer]

.

About these 3D replays:

https://www.tvbeurope.com/production-post/canon-to-bring-3d-replays-to-rugby-world-cup

[Rapido]

I was watching a replay.
And took some stills of the PSTD intercept to judge whether he was on side or offside.

Techincially; he was onside by the time he made contact with the ball.
But he was offside (retiring) and interfering with the NZ backline, so could have gone either way. Usually brave or dumb to get involved when that 'exposed'.

But if you look at my last picture, you will see it wasn't dumb. Was a 14 point intercept .....

Here is the sequence. Clockwise from top left:
Can see the ruck from ALB tackle in first still.

Look at the space. a 5 on 0 if you ignore the offside player.
Such a messy period of play, something didn't seem right, but hard to tell, and even with this amazing effort by myself ... it still would come down to interpretation anyway .....

[Rapido]

@MajorRage said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):

If you are an AB you have to expect (sad) people to go crawling through footage to find things and then try to make them go viral. Just means you've got to be super clean.

I have to admit, that after reading so much of it after the years, I have occasionally started to wonder if we do get some treatment as being the world number 1( and by some distance for a lot of it) over the last few years will mean some ref's will have pre-conceived notions.

However, after the Lions debacle, where there were full page spreads about the red card (first in history, more or less) and then zero about Garces flipping about playing the rules properly (both in favour of lions, both in last minutes, both deciding the results of the tests), I've decided that knockers are just knockers. Sad people who struggled to achieve nothing themselves. Sitting in Mummy's basement behind their thousands of screens desperate to find a morsel of AB "favouritisim" to try and make go viral. Forget Garces lack of PT/YC, forget the player being 10m offside before the Bok try, forget the penalty to Boks for brining down their own player - none is as relevant as Coles in from the side in a non-desciript ruck, or Read's clumsy grab at PTSD. None of it.

Boks were heavily tipped to win the thing by most fo the media up here (one well known pod cast had 6/6 predicting the Boks), and we've just (potentially) made them look stupid. If things go to form, I highly doubt they will get past the QF.

Forget this stuff as well, I don't have a twitter account so it didn't happen:
Ardie loses his headbackwards

Ardie has his head twisted off ....

not sure how to even describe this one .....

[SammyC]

@Machpants said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):

So who, exactly, are the players writing these messages on their wrist tape for? Not for themselves, unless they read their watches upside down
https://resources.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/1/x/2/f/g/0/image.related.StuffLandscapeSixteenByNine.710x400.1x2e9h.png/1569201729724.jpg
In fact, what does wrist tape even do?

It’s only a guess, but I reckon Sevu Reece wrote it for mum and dad.

[pakman]

@mofitzy_ said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):

@Stargazer said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):

Extended highlights clip with different camera angles:

Good thing they posted extended highlights as the initial highlights were a joke.

One for @NTA : when LH at 45 degrees (Ofa in H2 penalty win) how does LH lock get any shove on behind him? Noticed when Marler used to do this Chris Robshaw (big unit) was usually in full contact behind him?

[canefan]

@SammyC said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):

@Machpants said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):

So who, exactly, are the players writing these messages on their wrist tape for? Not for themselves, unless they read their watches upside down
https://resources.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/1/x/2/f/g/0/image.related.StuffLandscapeSixteenByNine.710x400.1x2e9h.png/1569201729724.jpg
In fact, what does wrist tape even do?

It’s only a guess, but I reckon Sevu Reece wrote it for mum and dad.

Nope. That's a message for Garces, code for 'do we have a deal?'

[JC]

@Machpants said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):

So who, exactly, are the players writing these messages on their wrist tape for? Not for themselves, unless they read their watches upside down
https://resources.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/1/x/2/f/g/0/image.related.StuffLandscapeSixteenByNine.710x400.1x2e9h.png/1569201729724.jpg
In fact, what does wrist tape even do?

Wrist tape is used to cover up a player’s “Matfield bar” tackling aid.

[Bovidae]

@Stargazer said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):

About these 3D replays:

Not 3D but I recorded and watched the spidercam coverage of the Bledisloe Cup II test. It was very interesting to watch an aerial view of the game and a completely different camera angle. The haka looked great from above too.

[rotated]

A decent section of the SA media and fanbase really have become whingers over the past decade starting around the PdV and 2009 Lions tour. Everything is a conspiracy, every loss was the referee.

This isn't all, or even most, but it just seems like a lot. Even Erasmus' comments after the game came across as pretty cynical.

Imagine if it were Vermeulen dudded by the HIA process?

[Chester Draws]

@gt12 said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):

Finally had a chance to watch most of the game again.

I'm impressed with Bridge and Reece on attack, but still not convinced about their effectiveness under the high ball. If they are going to be out first choice wingers, we should expect high kicks all day

We've been beaten a couple of times recently, with a common theme:

1. don't give us the ball,
2. don't let us run in broken play.

If they want to kick the ball to our wingers, I reckon we are sweet. It means that the opposition are going away from what beats us, to hoping we will make mistakes.

On the other hand, our box kicks and bombs weren't really that good

We were setting up broken plays. We don't really have any penetration of the Bok defence when it is set -- basically none -- so we need to get it unsettled. We trust our defence to hold, so giving them the ball from time to time isn't an issue. If, however we do recover the ball in a situation like that, we spring straight on to attack. It's our best chance to break through. Kicking deep isn't effective, and we don't really make metres in set phase.

What do you propose they do other than those box kicks? Ineffective runs in midfield?

[Siam]

@Chester-Draws yeah, no modern day team seems to want the ball in the middle third of the field, after a few mandatory but usually fruitless phases. Lots of kicking in that area of the park

[NTA]

@pakman said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):

One for @NTA : when LH at 45 degrees (Ofa in H2 penalty win) how does LH lock get any shove on behind him? Noticed when Marler used to do this Chris Robshaw (big unit) was usually in full contact behind him?

That's a tricky one - could answer if I was in that scrum

First note: given hookers tend to no longer be slim through the hips, a lot of props are on an angle to start. You could see it a couple of times with England last night - everyone in these test front rows is almost as wide across the arse as they are the shoulders. Stick two heads between the hips, both props are effectively angled in.

Back to the point: if I'm going in a little sideways, what I'm relying on is my hooker, THP, and TH lock to drive toward the opposition's hooker and THP - if I'm kind of going right, but the mass of the scrum is going left, the force of the two locks is generally going to end up being straight.

Think of it like a ship shit that has the wind to come across the rear port quarter, but uses the helm to keep it straight. I guess.

[gt12]

@Chester-Draws said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):

@gt12 said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):

Finally had a chance to watch most of the game again.

I'm impressed with Bridge and Reece on attack, but still not convinced about their effectiveness under the high ball. If they are going to be out first choice wingers, we should expect high kicks all day

We've been beaten a couple of times recently, with a common theme:

1. don't give us the ball,
2. don't let us run in broken play.

If they want to kick the ball to our wingers, I reckon we are sweet. It means that the opposition are going away from what beats us, to hoping we will make mistakes.

On the other hand, our box kicks and bombs weren't really that good

We were setting up broken plays. We don't really have any penetration of the Bok defence when it is set -- basically none -- so we need to get it unsettled. We trust our defence to hold, so giving them the ball from time to time isn't an issue. If, however we do recover the ball in a situation like that, we spring straight on to attack. It's our best chance to break through. Kicking deep isn't effective, and we don't really make metres in set phase.

What do you propose they do other than those box kicks? Ineffective runs in midfield?

Well, I don't think that the Boks were kicking without trying to reduce either 1 or 2 above - in fact, they were mostly kicking short and contesting them, which was my point, and pretty clear from watching the game, of course, but I guess I should have pointed that out. I could also point out that in the last two matches we lost (or drew) with SA, they have kicked more than us, as did Ireland when they beat us last year (see ESPN) I don't think they are only doing it because they are out of ideas, I think they are playing to pattern that gets them territory and chances for possession. It's also not a surprise that Ireland and SA have two of the best box kickers in the world either, nor that we might see either of them later (if we make it that far).

My point is that in traffic our guys didn't do a very good job catching contestable kicks, and as a result I'd expect we'll be looking at 2011 semi/final strategy from our opponents, assuming we make it that far. My question is whether these are the wingers to nail it when it matters. Some might say that others in the squad are better equipped to deal with such challenges. This is a discussion forum.

I'm not sure what you're second point is about? I'm not saying that a kicking game is bad or the rationale for an attacking kicking game, I'm questioning some of the kicks and suggesting that is needs to improve significantly. Do you disagree? Your point about the lack of effectiveness in midfield is a good one though - it seems strategic as, according to ESPN stats we got total of 3 metres running out the following players (Laulala, Moody, Ta'avao, Ofa, Frizell, Pat T, and SBW) and that's not counting bugger all from Cane, Read, and Coles. Clearly, it was hard to make ground, but alot of that was us trying to around them, rather than through them. I really hope it was a strategy and that we somewhere have a running game, but I'm yet to see it. As a result, I hope that our kicking game can be as good as it can be.

[DMX]

I think if you look at the whole picture it’s clear to me that the selections of not just the wings but the whole team is about trying to capitalize on our points of difference relative to other teams. The easy conservative selections against Springboks would to choose defensively and match them. Choose Owen Franks, choose a big 6, choose Bender at fullback and Jordie on one wing to counter their kicking. Instead Hansen chooses to capitalize on our points of differences areas that we don’t just match the opposition but where they will struggle to beat us. Props who can handle, an electric back row, form wings who can finish, an irrepressible full back. I salute Hansen for making the aggressive selections and I think he was leaning that way on the wings in 2015 with NMS and Naholo, but Naholo disappointed in pool stages.

[MiketheSnow]

@DMX said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):

I think if you look at the whole picture it’s clear to me that the selections of not just the wings but the whole team is about trying to capitalize on our points of difference relative to other teams. The easy conservative selections against Springboks would to choose defensively and match them. Choose Owen Franks, choose a big 6, choose Bender at fullback and Jordie on one wing to counter their kicking. Instead Hansen chooses to capitalize on our points of differences areas that we don’t just match the opposition but where they will struggle to beat us. Props who can handle, an electric back row, form wings who can finish, an irrepressible full back. I salute Hansen for making the aggressive selections and I think he was leaning that way on the wings in 2015 with NMS and Naholo, but Naholo disappointed in pool stages.

[KiwiPie]

@NTA said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):

@pakman said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):

One for @NTA : when LH at 45 degrees (Ofa in H2 penalty win) how does LH lock get any shove on behind him? Noticed when Marler used to do this Chris Robshaw (big unit) was usually in full contact behind him?

That's a tricky one - could answer if I was in that scrum

First note: given hookers tend to no longer be slim through the hips, a lot of props are on an angle to start. You could see it a couple of times with England last night - everyone in these test front rows is almost as wide across the arse as they are the shoulders. Stick two heads between the hips, both props are effectively angled in.

Back to the point: if I'm going in a little sideways, what I'm relying on is my hooker, THP, and TH lock to drive toward the opposition's hooker and THP - if I'm kind of going right, but the mass of the scrum is going left, the force of the two locks is generally going to end up being straight.

Think of it like a shit that has the wind to come across the rear port quarter, but uses the helm to keep it straight. I guess.

That last paragraph is a thing of beauty!

[pakman]

@NTA said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):

@pakman said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):

One for @NTA : when LH at 45 degrees (Ofa in H2 penalty win) how does LH lock get any shove on behind him? Noticed when Marler used to do this Chris Robshaw (big unit) was usually in full contact behind him?

That's a tricky one - could answer if I was in that scrum

First note: given hookers tend to no longer be slim through the hips, a lot of props are on an angle to start. You could see it a couple of times with England last night - everyone in these test front rows is almost as wide across the arse as they are the shoulders. Stick two heads between the hips, both props are effectively angled in.

Back to the point: if I'm going in a little sideways, what I'm relying on is my hooker, THP, and TH lock to drive toward the opposition's hooker and THP - if I'm kind of going right, but the mass of the scrum is going left, the force of the two locks is generally going to end up being straight.

Think of it like a shit that has the wind to come across the rear port quarter, but uses the helm to keep it straight. I guess.

Thanks, @NTA Makes sense.

The scrum was at 6.15. By the end Patty T pushing on ribs of Ofa (who is completely sideways!) but he manages to stay underneath Nyakane, who pops up. Penalty.

Fitz used to say having slim hips was a big plus as hooker.