RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1)
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@Bones said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
Was the combined "dream team" posted? Manu Vunipola was a surprise.
Hmmm... so the AB front-row,midfield and wings suck compared to England.
And Hansen is playing B.Barrett out of position.This can't end well.
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@Catogrande only the arrogant English could select someone who's never even featured in international rugby in a combined team.
@Bones said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@Catogrande only the arrogant English could select someone who's never even featured in international rugby in a combined team.
Look. I'm not going to click on it so you will just have to tell me who that is.
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@Bones said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@Catogrande only the arrogant English could select someone who's never even featured in international rugby in a combined team.
Look. I'm not going to click on it so you will just have to tell me who that is.
@Catogrande said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@Bones said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@Catogrande only the arrogant English could select someone who's never even featured in international rugby in a combined team.
Look. I'm not going to click on it so you will just have to tell me who that is.
Sigh. Manu Vunipola...
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@Catogrande said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@Bones said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@Catogrande only the arrogant English could select someone who's never even featured in international rugby in a combined team.
Look. I'm not going to click on it so you will just have to tell me who that is.
Sigh. Manu Vunipola...
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@Bones See, now I thought you were being serious and that Barnes had sprung a REAL left field one.
Edit: Which would not altogether surprise me.
@Catogrande said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@Bones See, now I thought you were being serious and that Barnes had sprung a REAL left field one.
Edit: Which would not altogether surprise me.
Well I've never heard of him. But if he's from England then he's probably a supreme tight forward.
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@Bones it remains to be seen if he is correct. I suspect the ABs have quietly undergone a revolution in terms of how they play the game, and these so called experts like Barnes and O'Sullivan have not yet fully cottoned on. Our boys are the only ones who can get in the way of an AB win. A lack of physicality or handling will allow England to feed off our mistakes. But I'm quietly confident that we will win comfortably and that we will run England off the park
@canefan said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@Bones it remains to be seen if he is correct. I suspect the ABs have quietly undergone a revolution in terms of how they play the game, and these so called experts like Barnes and O'Sullivan have not yet fully cottoned on. Our boys are the only ones who can get in the way of an AB win. A lack of physicality or handling will allow England to feed off our mistakes. But I'm quietly confident that we will win comfortably and that we will run England off the park
Yes I am with. It’s interesting that someone like Barnes who has a secret Hard on for the ABs still does not get that Barrett was struggling at 10 despite the World Player of the year awards. It’s been clear as day to us that Mounga is better in that role and Barrett relishes the space at the back. The Irish pundits did not get it at all but hilarious to see their post mortems now. It is a hard road that the ABs have to take to win this but like last game I feel good. The ABs having this much time together is more meaningful than any other team. They have form, fitness and chemistry on their side, they know exactly what’s coming , ABs by at least 10.
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@canefan said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@Bones it remains to be seen if he is correct. I suspect the ABs have quietly undergone a revolution in terms of how they play the game, and these so called experts like Barnes and O'Sullivan have not yet fully cottoned on. Our boys are the only ones who can get in the way of an AB win. A lack of physicality or handling will allow England to feed off our mistakes. But I'm quietly confident that we will win comfortably and that we will run England off the park
Yes I am with. It’s interesting that someone like Barnes who has a secret Hard on for the ABs still does not get that Barrett was struggling at 10 despite the World Player of the year awards. It’s been clear as day to us that Mounga is better in that role and Barrett relishes the space at the back. The Irish pundits did not get it at all but hilarious to see their post mortems now. It is a hard road that the ABs have to take to win this but like last game I feel good. The ABs having this much time together is more meaningful than any other team. They have form, fitness and chemistry on their side, they know exactly what’s coming , ABs by at least 10.
@DMX Interesting your view on the Barret v Mo'unga discussion. I've never felt that Barrett was a fantastic fly half - and I realise that this may lead to me being virtual lynched on here, but to me he does not seem to fit too well for some of the key duties of a 10. His kicking game is a bit off, his game management is not up there with the likes of say Carter, BUT he is without doubt a fantastic, almost freakish, rugby player and has to play. I can see the argument for having him at 10 as he is so good that you want to get the ball to him as often and as quickly as possible, but I think I agree with you that the extra space he gets at 15 is perhaps more suited and allied to that, you have a bloody good 10 in Mo'unga to bring a little more control to the game.
A very nice problem to have.
Off to dig a trench and search for my tin hat...
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@DMX Interesting your view on the Barret v Mo'unga discussion. I've never felt that Barrett was a fantastic fly half - and I realise that this may lead to me being virtual lynched on here, but to me he does not seem to fit too well for some of the key duties of a 10. His kicking game is a bit off, his game management is not up there with the likes of say Carter, BUT he is without doubt a fantastic, almost freakish, rugby player and has to play. I can see the argument for having him at 10 as he is so good that you want to get the ball to him as often and as quickly as possible, but I think I agree with you that the extra space he gets at 15 is perhaps more suited and allied to that, you have a bloody good 10 in Mo'unga to bring a little more control to the game.
A very nice problem to have.
Off to dig a trench and search for my tin hat...
@Catogrande think you're safe with Rancid no longer lurking.
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I was fascinated to see Owens and Schmidt having a long talk before the game last week (with Schmidt clearly trying to get something across, including gestures about tackling or clean outs). I wondered whether, in any way, that then influenced what he looked for at penalty time.
Hansen didn't bother approaching Owens, although might have said hi.
Hansen and Schmidt had a massive talk too. They look like they are pretty friendly.
@gt12 said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
I was fascinated to see Owens and Schmidt having a long talk before the game last week (with Schmidt clearly trying to get something across, including gestures about tackling or clean outs). I wondered whether, in any way, that then influenced what he looked for at penalty time.
Hansen didn't bother approaching Owens, although might have said hi.
Hansen and Schmidt had a massive talk too. They look like they are pretty friendly.
Owens has a reputation in Ireland for spectating rather than reffing.
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I have to take my hat off to Shag and his team, this time last year I never thought, Franks, Bender and Ioane would not be in the 23 come semi final time. I would also not have thought Ardie would be at 6, Mounga at 10 and Bridge and Reece on the wings.
It shows that Shag and co realised they needed to change it up to be successful at RWC, unlike Ireland who stuck with the same aging players and game plan.
I don't think they were always this way, J Savea, NMS, Franks and a few others were kept past their prime based on experience and past achievements.
Perhaps they had the game plan to beat the rush defence and just set about getting the best players to match.
Maybe the losses to the Irish and some other poor performances were the catalyst to change.
Even if we don't win the WC, I take my hat off to Shag and co for evolving and trusting their process.
@chimoaus said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
I have to take my hat off to Shag and his team, this time last year I never thought, Franks, Bender and Ioane would not be in the 23 come semi final time. I would also not have thought Ardie would be at 6, Mounga at 10 and Bridge and Reece on the wings.
It shows that Shag and co realised they needed to change it up to be successful at RWC, unlike Ireland who stuck with the same aging players and game plan.
I don't think they were always this way, J Savea, NMS, Franks and a few others were kept past their prime based on experience and past achievements.
Perhaps they had the game plan to beat the rush defence and just set about getting the best players to match.
Maybe the losses to the Irish and some other poor performances were the catalyst to change.
Even if we don't win the WC, I take my hat off to Shag and co for evolving and trusting their process.
Interesting that in June Joe Schmidt told me he thought ABs might go with Ardie at 6 and Beau'unga, not that he used that name for it.
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Can Poms boss ABs in forwards? No bigger than Boks who didn't manage it. Doubt they'll get any scrum momentum. They will look to disrupt our lineout albeit the back row vs Oz won't help there. Key for them is Vunipola bros, whose footwork in contact often unlocks defences. In backs without Ford not much flair, but St. Owen is good at manipulating space IF he gets front foot ball. Expect their kick chase to be highly organised, so running from own half needs to be approached with caution. If ABs get fast ball it will be a long night for Eddie.
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Can Poms boss ABs in forwards? No bigger than Boks who didn't manage it. Doubt they'll get any scrum momentum. They will look to disrupt our lineout albeit the back row vs Oz won't help there. Key for them is Vunipola bros, whose footwork in contact often unlocks defences. In backs without Ford not much flair, but St. Owen is good at manipulating space IF he gets front foot ball. Expect their kick chase to be highly organised, so running from own half needs to be approached with caution. If ABs get fast ball it will be a long night for Eddie.
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@pakman to be fair in the whole I’d say the Boks forwards did get the better of ours / especially first 20. They just forgot to score points.
@MajorRage said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@pakman to be fair in the whole I’d say the Boks forwards did get the better of ours / especially first 20. They just forgot to score points.
They were getting territory, but for me they never made decent breaks. And they ran out of steam in second. In Japan, rope a dope seems quite a wise strategy.
And there's BBBR, whom Shag labels a juggernaut!
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@DMX Interesting your view on the Barret v Mo'unga discussion. I've never felt that Barrett was a fantastic fly half - and I realise that this may lead to me being virtual lynched on here, but to me he does not seem to fit too well for some of the key duties of a 10. His kicking game is a bit off, his game management is not up there with the likes of say Carter, BUT he is without doubt a fantastic, almost freakish, rugby player and has to play. I can see the argument for having him at 10 as he is so good that you want to get the ball to him as often and as quickly as possible, but I think I agree with you that the extra space he gets at 15 is perhaps more suited and allied to that, you have a bloody good 10 in Mo'unga to bring a little more control to the game.
A very nice problem to have.
Off to dig a trench and search for my tin hat...
@Catogrande said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@DMX Interesting your view on the Barret v Mo'unga discussion. I've never felt that Barrett was a fantastic fly half - and I realise that this may lead to me being virtual lynched on here, but to me he does not seem to fit too well for some of the key duties of a 10. His kicking game is a bit off, his game management is not up there with the likes of say Carter, BUT he is without doubt a fantastic, almost freakish, rugby player and has to play. I can see the argument for having him at 10 as he is so good that you want to get the ball to him as often and as quickly as possible, but I think I agree with you that the extra space he gets at 15 is perhaps more suited and allied to that, you have a bloody good 10 in Mo'unga to bring a little more control to the game.
A very nice problem to have.
Off to dig a trench and search for my tin hat...
What you have said is what a lot of kiwis have been saying anyway ,
Many have felt he is better suited to 15, But we had a damm good Fullback in Ben smith as well ,
The emergence of Mounga with the ageing of Ben Smith may be perfect timing
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This game will be a battle of tempo. We saw that in the QF against Ireland where the Irish wanted to slow the game down and go through their phases, but more so in the Japan-SA QF where the tactics of each team couldn't have been anymore different. While England play at a higher tempo than either Ireland or SA they won't want the game to get too unstructured as that negates their defensive line speed. Aust created opportunities on attack but errors let them down and I expect the ABs to be more pragmatic on exit plays.
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This game will be a battle of tempo. We saw that in the QF against Ireland where the Irish wanted to slow the game down and go through their phases, but more so in the Japan-SA QF where the tactics of each team couldn't have been anymore different. While England play at a higher tempo than either Ireland or SA they won't want the game to get too unstructured as that negates their defensive line speed. Aust created opportunities on attack but errors let them down and I expect the ABs to be more pragmatic on exit plays.
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@DMX Interesting your view on the Barret v Mo'unga discussion. I've never felt that Barrett was a fantastic fly half - and I realise that this may lead to me being virtual lynched on here, but to me he does not seem to fit too well for some of the key duties of a 10. His kicking game is a bit off, his game management is not up there with the likes of say Carter, BUT he is without doubt a fantastic, almost freakish, rugby player and has to play. I can see the argument for having him at 10 as he is so good that you want to get the ball to him as often and as quickly as possible, but I think I agree with you that the extra space he gets at 15 is perhaps more suited and allied to that, you have a bloody good 10 in Mo'unga to bring a little more control to the game.
A very nice problem to have.
Off to dig a trench and search for my tin hat...
@Catogrande yeah most would agree with you, he is a prodigious talent, and when BFA was still at the top of his game, BB had to play, and as such, it was at 10. Now we have a world class 10, BFA is no longer at the top, BB can play 15.
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My gung-ho attitude has somewhat subsided.
I was certain we would be far too strong for Ireland but England have been simmering away this world cup, a bit unnoticed to me.
I definitely think we have the better side but if our scrum cartwheels backwards all day, we have a good chance of coming second.
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My gung-ho attitude has somewhat subsided.
I was certain we would be far too strong for Ireland but England have been simmering away this world cup, a bit unnoticed to me.
I definitely think we have the better side but if our scrum cartwheels backwards all day, we have a good chance of coming second.
