All Black Coach - Ian Foster
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If they only offer a 2 year one , they should start the search for the next coach now to ensure they dont miss out on anyone.
@taniwharugby said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
If they only offer a 2 year one , they should start the search for the next coach now to ensure they dont miss out on anyone.
Apparently
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@Bovidae said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
I had forgotten that Hansen originally only had a 2-yr contract. Common sense from NZR.
Henry's in 2004 and 2008 were two-year deals also.
I imagine the term/salary on offer was made known to all the cadidates as the outset. One of the major reasons why a four year guranteed deal was attractive to Joseph and Rennie.
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Two years would also be a good option if they want to start with Foster as head coach and Robertson as assistant, and then Robertson taking over after 2 years. It would make it easier for Robertson to accept an assitant coach role. They could preserve some continuity and Robertson at the same time could be useful to already start some changes, then giving him free reign if he takes over after 2 years. If he doesn't prove worthy to take over after two years, they can still search for a new head coach.
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@Bovidae said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
I had forgotten that Hansen originally only had a 2-yr contract. Common sense from NZR.
Henry's in 2004 and 2008 were two-year deals also.
I imagine the term/salary on offer was made known to all the cadidates as the outset. One of the major reasons why a four year guranteed deal was attractive to Joseph and Rennie.
@rotated said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
I imagine the term/salary on offer was made known to all the cadidates as the outset. One of the major reasons why a four year guranteed deal was attractive to Joseph and Rennie.
And who could blame them.
Two years seems long enough to have an impact, one way or the other, as Rassie demonstrated. 2020 will be a transition year so some leeway will be given if progress is being made.
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@rotated said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
I imagine the term/salary on offer was made known to all the cadidates as the outset. One of the major reasons why a four year guranteed deal was attractive to Joseph and Rennie.
And who could blame them.
Two years seems long enough to have an impact, one way or the other, as Rassie demonstrated. 2020 will be a transition year so some leeway will be given if progress is being made.
@Bovidae but what is 'acceptable' in terms of bedding in new systems, processes etc?
1 loss a year acceptable?
3 over 2 years?
4 over 2 years?For me 3 in 2 is par for the course, 4 is probably still ok but not ideal...anything more...
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@Bovidae but what is 'acceptable' in terms of bedding in new systems, processes etc?
1 loss a year acceptable?
3 over 2 years?
4 over 2 years?For me 3 in 2 is par for the course, 4 is probably still ok but not ideal...anything more...
@taniwharugby I looked at the stats before posting.
In 2012, there was a draw vs Aust and a loss vs England in the last game of the season. In 2013, the ABs went undefeated.
In 2016, there was the loss to Ireland in Chicago. In 2017, a draw and loss to the Lions and a loss to Aust.
To answer your question, winning all home tests should be a minimum. An away loss to SA or Aust in either year wouldn't be a surprise and is historically par for the course. Just as importantly, the coach and players should be judged on the performance not just Ws and Ls.
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@Bovidae but what is 'acceptable' in terms of bedding in new systems, processes etc?
1 loss a year acceptable?
3 over 2 years?
4 over 2 years?For me 3 in 2 is par for the course, 4 is probably still ok but not ideal...anything more...
@taniwharugby said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
@Bovidae but what is 'acceptable' in terms of bedding in new systems, processes etc?
1 loss a year acceptable?
3 over 2 years?
4 over 2 years?For me 3 in 2 is par for the course, 4 is probably still ok but not ideal...anything more...
I think it depends on circumstances. 5 losses might be acceptable if they're all away, close and we're generally playing well.
3 losses might not be if we're struggling to win, have a loss at home and the losing margins are wide.
You'd also hope that the board has a better view of the coaching as well. So if the coaching team is showing a good understanding of what they're trying to do, are adapting following losses, can articulate effectively what needs to change etc they should get more rope than if they have less losses but also less understanding of what is going wrong.
The best pathway to long term, continued success is strong processes. If someone is getting good results but can't really explain why (or where to improve) then odds on they'll regress over time. If someone is not getting as good results but they can explain why and how to improve, then over the long term they'll do better.
That has to be balanced with the reality that you are what your record says you are, but there can't be a magic number of wins for safety or losses for sacking.
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@taniwharugby said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
@Bovidae but what is 'acceptable' in terms of bedding in new systems, processes etc?
1 loss a year acceptable?
3 over 2 years?
4 over 2 years?For me 3 in 2 is par for the course, 4 is probably still ok but not ideal...anything more...
I think it depends on circumstances. 5 losses might be acceptable if they're all away, close and we're generally playing well.
3 losses might not be if we're struggling to win, have a loss at home and the losing margins are wide.
You'd also hope that the board has a better view of the coaching as well. So if the coaching team is showing a good understanding of what they're trying to do, are adapting following losses, can articulate effectively what needs to change etc they should get more rope than if they have less losses but also less understanding of what is going wrong.
The best pathway to long term, continued success is strong processes. If someone is getting good results but can't really explain why (or where to improve) then odds on they'll regress over time. If someone is not getting as good results but they can explain why and how to improve, then over the long term they'll do better.
That has to be balanced with the reality that you are what your record says you are, but there can't be a magic number of wins for safety or losses for sacking.
@Cyclops said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
losses for sacking
One, AB's don't lose.
I'm kidding of course, but if the studies are correct on field leadership has a huge effect, even more so than coaching (obviously selection counts too). Interesting that our results (and performances) fell off a bit when Richie wasn't there. -
“On the flip side, Steve Hansen told us that Foster was coaching at the peak of his powers and yet we got spanked by England. If he’s at the top of his game, is he going to improve? That might be a wake-up call. Hansen’s record was amazing, but you need to look at the last two years from the Lions tour. What did we learn from the losses and how did we improve? Foster was part of all that.”
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@taniwharugby I looked at the stats before posting.
In 2012, there was a draw vs Aust and a loss vs England in the last game of the season. In 2013, the ABs went undefeated.
In 2016, there was the loss to Ireland in Chicago. In 2017, a draw and loss to the Lions and a loss to Aust.
To answer your question, winning all home tests should be a minimum. An away loss to SA or Aust in either year wouldn't be a surprise and is historically par for the course. Just as importantly, the coach and players should be judged on the performance not just Ws and Ls.
@Bovidae @Cyclops while I largely agree, ultimately the Ws and Ls will always be a big factor.
I mean we could be average for 2 seasons and scrape by with no losses, or we could play awesome showing oodles of potential and lose narrowly half a dozen times...
shes gonna be times like we havent had for a very long time.
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Where will the next All Black coach take this graph?
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Where will the next All Black coach take this graph?
@Daffy-Jaffy gee that's impressive
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Where will the next All Black coach take this graph?
@Daffy-Jaffy said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
Where will the next All Black coach take this graph?
You could sort of breakdance to that music.
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Interesting to watch the movement of SA on that. Went a long time consistently top 3-4 then the recent plummet (dipped below Scotland) followed by a resurgence to the top.
Certainly looks like a big hit and reset was required.As unpalatable as that is, maybe we need something similar (not quite so drastic though).
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Interesting to watch the movement of SA on that. Went a long time consistently top 3-4 then the recent plummet (dipped below Scotland) followed by a resurgence to the top.
Certainly looks like a big hit and reset was required.As unpalatable as that is, maybe we need something similar (not quite so drastic though).
@Crucial said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
Interesting to watch the movement of SA on that. Went a long time consistently top 3-4 then the recent plummet (dipped below Scotland) followed by a resurgence to the top.
Certainly looks like a big hit and reset was required.As unpalatable as that is, maybe we need something similar (not quite so drastic though).
We dropped to third. Third!
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Interesting to watch the movement of SA on that. Went a long time consistently top 3-4 then the recent plummet (dipped below Scotland) followed by a resurgence to the top.
Certainly looks like a big hit and reset was required.As unpalatable as that is, maybe we need something similar (not quite so drastic though).
@Crucial I think we have had our dip....time to make our way back up now.
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@KiwiMurph Scotty was well off the mark with his last tweet...
If true, I think the key will be his team, assume this is announced at the same time?
