The future of NZ Rugby
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@antipodean said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@gt12 said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
So, what is the best/ a good way forward?
High school footy seems like a potentially lucrative product to me, as long as the TV infrastructure can be set up, while moving all academies to Super teams is a likely move and probably a good one.For all the history of the NPC, in the modern professional era rugby supporters are going to have to come to terms with the fact that school rugby is the pathway to Super Rugby.
I was having this chat with Tony Brown just last year when he pointed out the best school rugby coaches are paid more than NPC coaches. He said that's the reality of it now.
My ears are ringing from that name drop, but is that fair dinkum? So they are employed now as a rugby coach only (not teaching too)
@Hooroo said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@antipodean said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@gt12 said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
So, what is the best/ a good way forward?
High school footy seems like a potentially lucrative product to me, as long as the TV infrastructure can be set up, while moving all academies to Super teams is a likely move and probably a good one.For all the history of the NPC, in the modern professional era rugby supporters are going to have to come to terms with the fact that school rugby is the pathway to Super Rugby.
I was having this chat with Tony Brown just last year when he pointed out the best school rugby coaches are paid more than NPC coaches. He said that's the reality of it now.
My ears are ringing from that name drop, but is that fair dinkum? So they are employed now as a rugby coach only (not teaching too)
I was still sober while we talked. That's why I remember.
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@Tim said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@Hooroo There is no one in Dunedin.
Be hones, there are nearly 130,000 people there. That's slightly more than Albany (100,000), and Whangarei (75,000).
You make a fair point though. Auckland Region has a third of the population (and growing). Add on 150k from Northland, and there's two franchises right there.
As for those saying the crowds would be terrible, how good would a harbour battle be each year... I think they missed a massive trick with those decisions.
@nzzp said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
oroo There is no one in Dunedin.
Be hones, there are nearly 130,000 people there. That's slightly more than Albany (100,000), and Whangarei (75,000).
You make a fair point though. Auckland Region has a third of the population (and growing). Add on 150k from Northland, and there's two franchises right there.
As for those saying the crowds would be terrible, how good would a harbour battle be each year... I tnot that it matters, but Whangarei district is closer to 100k now (think $96k was last figure quoted)
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@nzzp said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@Nepia get into NFL and NCAA football - runs from September to Jan ... it's pretty sweet
That's no help for the rugby season months.
@Nepia said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@nzzp said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@Nepia get into NFL and NCAA football - runs from September to Jan ... it's pretty sweet
That's no help for the rugby season months.
it is compared to the NPC. NPC ran Aug-Oct; I think Sept-Jan is a fair tradeoff.
up to you, but if you want a comp that exactly dovetails NPC, good luck
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TBH, and apologies in advance at @Tim but I highly doubt that a Super team based in Harbour from the start would have made any difference to how things are going now. Auckland can't even run one competent team at the moment let alone two.
@Nepia said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
TBH, and apologies in advance at @Tim but I highly doubt that a Super team based in Harbour from the start would have made any difference to how things are going now. Auckland can't even run one competent team at the moment let alone two.
The first 8 years we were mostly fine. It's been the last 20 or so that are an aberration.
Plus, competition in a local market does wonders for focussing people's minds and making good decisions
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@Tim said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@Hooroo There is no one in Dunedin.
Be hones, there are nearly 130,000 people there. That's slightly more than Albany (100,000), and Whangarei (75,000).
You make a fair point though. Auckland Region has a third of the population (and growing). Add on 150k from Northland, and there's two franchises right there.
As for those saying the crowds would be terrible, how good would a harbour battle be each year... I think they missed a massive trick with those decisions.
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@Nepia said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@nzzp said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@Nepia get into NFL and NCAA football - runs from September to Jan ... it's pretty sweet
That's no help for the rugby season months.
it is compared to the NPC. NPC ran Aug-Oct; I think Sept-Jan is a fair tradeoff.
up to you, but if you want a comp that exactly dovetails NPC, good luck
@nzzp said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@Nepia said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@nzzp said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@Nepia get into NFL and NCAA football - runs from September to Jan ... it's pretty sweet
That's no help for the rugby season months.
it is compared to the NPC. NPC ran Aug-Oct; I think Sept-Jan is a fair tradeoff.
up to you, but if you want a comp that exactly dovetails NPC, good luck
I was meaning the whole rugby season in general in that post, if they turn the entirety of NZ rugby into some total 6 or 7 teams.
Obvious asterisk to that is if one of the teams is called Hawkes Bay, wear black and white and play out of McLean Park.
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TBH, and apologies in advance at @Tim but I highly doubt that a Super team based in Harbour from the start would have made any difference to how things are going now. Auckland can't even run one competent team at the moment let alone two.
@Nepia said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
TBH, and apologies in advance at @Tim but I highly doubt that a Super team based in Harbour from the start would have made any difference to how things are going now. Auckland can't even run one competent team at the moment let alone two.
It would have made a big difference, for rugby as a whole (investing in by far the biggest market) and it would avoided some of the issues that caused probems in the Blues.
A Super Rugby battle of the bridge would have retained a lot of interest that has now been lost over the past 25 years. Remember North Harbour was pretty strong back then too.
Factor in all the Auckland/North Harbour/Counties players playing around the country and it's even a stupider decision.
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https://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=12312527
Does it mention asian people? They make up a lot of the school age population.
Does it honestly deal with the challenge of losing two major sponsors in a year? With no replacements announced ...
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@Nepia said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
TBH, and apologies in advance at @Tim but I highly doubt that a Super team based in Harbour from the start would have made any difference to how things are going now. Auckland can't even run one competent team at the moment let alone two.
It would have made a big difference, for rugby as a whole (investing in by far the biggest market) and it would avoided some of the issues that caused probems in the Blues.
A Super Rugby battle of the bridge would have retained a lot of interest that has now been lost over the past 25 years. Remember North Harbour was pretty strong back then too.
Factor in all the Auckland/North Harbour/Counties players playing around the country and it's even a stupider decision.
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@Kirwan NZ Rugby chose to discard its history and consumer passion. Astoundingly stupid and arrogant.
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@nzzp Auckland may have one third of the country's population but about one third of that is either of Asian (mostly Chinses) or Indian origin/ethnicity neither of which are all that interested in rugby (the Japanese aside)
@Higgins said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@nzzp Auckland may have one third of the country's population but about one third of that is either of Asian (mostly Chinses) or Indian origin/ethnicity neither of which are all that interested in rugby (the Japanese aside)
just be careful of sweeping generalisations. The lads who drew me into Eden Park (and are 25 year+ sesaon ticket holders) are indians; no reason the Rugby Religion can't sweep up folks from any ethnicity. Rugby's problem is more that it's hard to get into for damn near anyone, regardless of where you're from.
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https://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=12312527
Does it mention asian people? They make up a lot of the school age population.
Does it honestly deal with the challenge of losing two major sponsors in a year? With no replacements announced ...
@Tim said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=12312527
Does it mention asian people? They make up a lot of the school age population.
Does it honestly deal with the challenge of losing two major sponsors in a year? With no replacements announced ...
Feels like getting your ducks lined up to be bought by a large investment firm....
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@Nepia said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
TBH, and apologies in advance at @Tim but I highly doubt that a Super team based in Harbour from the start would have made any difference to how things are going now. Auckland can't even run one competent team at the moment let alone two.
It would have made a big difference, for rugby as a whole (investing in by far the biggest market) and it would avoided some of the issues that caused probems in the Blues.
A Super Rugby battle of the bridge would have retained a lot of interest that has now been lost over the past 25 years. Remember North Harbour was pretty strong back then too.
Factor in all the Auckland/North Harbour/Counties players playing around the country and it's even a stupider decision.
@Kirwan said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@Nepia said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
TBH, and apologies in advance at @Tim but I highly doubt that a Super team based in Harbour from the start would have made any difference to how things are going now. Auckland can't even run one competent team at the moment let alone two.
It would have made a big difference, for rugby as a whole (investing in by far the biggest market) and it would avoided some of the issues that caused probems in the Blues.
A Super Rugby battle of the bridge would have retained a lot of interest that has now been lost over the past 25 years. Remember North Harbour was pretty strong back then too.
Factor in all the Auckland/North Harbour/Counties players playing around the country and it's even a stupider decision.
If you'd have asked anyone in the 90s if the Blues would be a struggling franchise you'd get laughed at, I don't think there's a guarantee of success of a Harbour team in Super rugby (or if there would have been other knock on effects from basing it there).
I'm not saying it couldn't have been a success, but not the fait accompli you guys are making it out to be.
@nzzp said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@Higgins said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@nzzp Auckland may have one third of the country's population but about one third of that is either of Asian (mostly Chinses) or Indian origin/ethnicity neither of which are all that interested in rugby (the Japanese aside)
just be careful of sweeping generalisations. The lads who drew me into Eden Park (and are 25 year+ sesaon ticket holders) are indians; no reason the Rugby Religion can't sweep up folks from any ethnicity. Rugby's problem is more that it's hard to get into for damn near anyone, regardless of where you're from.
Yeah, I always remember seeing lots of Indians at rugby matches in NZ.
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@Kirwan said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@Nepia said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
TBH, and apologies in advance at @Tim but I highly doubt that a Super team based in Harbour from the start would have made any difference to how things are going now. Auckland can't even run one competent team at the moment let alone two.
It would have made a big difference, for rugby as a whole (investing in by far the biggest market) and it would avoided some of the issues that caused probems in the Blues.
A Super Rugby battle of the bridge would have retained a lot of interest that has now been lost over the past 25 years. Remember North Harbour was pretty strong back then too.
Factor in all the Auckland/North Harbour/Counties players playing around the country and it's even a stupider decision.
If you'd have asked anyone in the 90s if the Blues would be a struggling franchise you'd get laughed at, I don't think there's a guarantee of success of a Harbour team in Super rugby (or if there would have been other knock on effects from basing it there).
I'm not saying it couldn't have been a success, but not the fait accompli you guys are making it out to be.
@nzzp said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@Higgins said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@nzzp Auckland may have one third of the country's population but about one third of that is either of Asian (mostly Chinses) or Indian origin/ethnicity neither of which are all that interested in rugby (the Japanese aside)
just be careful of sweeping generalisations. The lads who drew me into Eden Park (and are 25 year+ sesaon ticket holders) are indians; no reason the Rugby Religion can't sweep up folks from any ethnicity. Rugby's problem is more that it's hard to get into for damn near anyone, regardless of where you're from.
Yeah, I always remember seeing lots of Indians at rugby matches in NZ.
@Nepia Some of the problems of the Blues has been infighting between Northland, Harbour and Auckland.
On the Shore and Northland, they see the Blues as Auckland dominated, so you lose fan engagement there.
So two problems solved straight away.
Then you factor in the marketing advantages of local rivalries now being on the field, and being able to retain their talent and you have a better product.
Or you could prop up dwindling populations in Southland and Dunedin...
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@Higgins said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@nzzp Auckland may have one third of the country's population but about one third of that is either of Asian (mostly Chinses) or Indian origin/ethnicity neither of which are all that interested in rugby (the Japanese aside)
just be careful of sweeping generalisations. The lads who drew me into Eden Park (and are 25 year+ sesaon ticket holders) are indians; no reason the Rugby Religion can't sweep up folks from any ethnicity. Rugby's problem is more that it's hard to get into for damn near anyone, regardless of where you're from.
@nzzp said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@Higgins said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@nzzp Auckland may have one third of the country's population but about one third of that is either of Asian (mostly Chinses) or Indian origin/ethnicity neither of which are all that interested in rugby (the Japanese aside)
just be careful of sweeping generalisations. The lads who drew me into Eden Park (and are 25 year+ sesaon ticket holders) are indians; no reason the Rugby Religion can't sweep up folks from any ethnicity. Rugby's problem is more that it's hard to get into for damn near anyone, regardless of where you're from.
Do their kids play?
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@nzzp said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@Higgins said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@nzzp Auckland may have one third of the country's population but about one third of that is either of Asian (mostly Chinses) or Indian origin/ethnicity neither of which are all that interested in rugby (the Japanese aside)
just be careful of sweeping generalisations. The lads who drew me into Eden Park (and are 25 year+ sesaon ticket holders) are indians; no reason the Rugby Religion can't sweep up folks from any ethnicity. Rugby's problem is more that it's hard to get into for damn near anyone, regardless of where you're from.
Do their kids play?
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As professional rugby supporters, I'm not sure that matters. My friend goes to heaps of Cowboys games, but his kids play tennis and golf.
@gt12 said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
As professional rugby supporters, I'm not sure that matters. My friend goes to heaps of Cowboys games, but his kids play tennis and golf.
I thought there was dwindling player numbers. I appreciate that you don't have to play to be a supporter, but surely the strike rate for a sport that has season ticket holders is some of their offspring take up the game.
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A real eye opener for me was listening to a rugby contract lawyer on a podcast a couple of years ago. He basically suggested that NZ Rugby should axe payments to NPC players in order to fund a professional women's competition, "because we just have to". That is the calibre of person who works in NZ rugby.
Of course Scotty Stevenson loved it.
