Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain
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@Canes4life Ardie is not an 8 or even a 6. We need more size at these positions.
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Don’t have a problem with it with what’s available.
Now, if only we had some games to see how it goes .
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@broughie that's what I reckon too. If Sam is starting then Ardie is on the bench. It's pretty disappointing if Ardie is considered the best starting 8 (or 6) in NZ. He's just too small.
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@MajorRage said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
Pretty good start Fossie.
Or a continuation of his old Chiefs selection strategy? Waikato stacking?
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Best bet for me is 6. Big mofo like Grace or Sotutu 7. Cane 8. Savea (he's a better 8 than 6 as he can use his speed off the back of the scrum here).
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I think he has been given the job with an eye to him being the right man to transition to a new regime. Whitelock carries to look of the last setup and is probably also carrying some 'blame' of not leading by example in the semi.
If there is a desire to get some new blood and a tougher forward edge then Cane is the man who will hit hard and set the tone. -
Best bet for me is 6. Big mofo like Grace or Sotutu 7. Cane 8. Savea (he's a better 8 than 6 as he can use his speed off the back of the scrum here).
@Canes4life said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
Best bet for me is 6. Big mofo like Grace or Sotutu 7. Cane 8. Savea (he's a better 8 than 6 as he can use his speed off the back of the scrum here).
He's been on the side for defensive scrums (fast at getting off and interfering) and back for offensive scrums for ages with the ABs
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@Toddy NZ's best player last year on the bench? I don't think so. Who would be ahead of him?
@Canes4life The Captain.
Don't get me wrong. I don't think Cane is a better 7 than Savea. Cane is probably better against some teams but I don't believe he is out right a better 7.
I don't think the combination of starting Savea and Cane is a strong well rounded trio. My preference would be to start one or the other and not shoehorn them in to get our 'best' players on the park.
I would be more open to it if Akira was playing to his potential (lineout may still be too short) but I can't see any other loosie in NZ filling the gap. Grace would add height but no real carrying ability leaving Ardie to be the only ball carrier in the trio. Dalton may be a goer but I still worry about his concrete feet. Maybe Sotutu but he's a complete rookie.
It does look like it's going to be Foster's short term solution.
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@Canes4life The Captain.
Don't get me wrong. I don't think Cane is a better 7 than Savea. Cane is probably better against some teams but I don't believe he is out right a better 7.
I don't think the combination of starting Savea and Cane is a strong well rounded trio. My preference would be to start one or the other and not shoehorn them in to get our 'best' players on the park.
I would be more open to it if Akira was playing to his potential (lineout may still be too short) but I can't see any other loosie in NZ filling the gap. Grace would add height but no real carrying ability leaving Ardie to be the only ball carrier in the trio. Dalton may be a goer but I still worry about his concrete feet. Maybe Sotutu but he's a complete rookie.
It does look like it's going to be Foster's short term solution.
@Toddy said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
I would be more open to it if Akira was playing to his potential (lineout may still be too short) but I can't see any other loosie in NZ filling the gap. Grace would add height but no real carrying ability leaving Ardie to be the only ball carrier in the trio. Dalton may be a goer but I still worry about his concrete feet. Maybe Sotutu but he's a complete rookie.
Tom Robinson would be the best fit. He’s fixed his accuracy issues this year
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@akan004 said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
Joe Moody missed a lot of tackles that night. Probably his worst performance in a black jersey.
I guess you haven't heard about that day Joe put on a black v-neck and proceeded to accidentally run over his neighbours cat, dropped his lunch on the floor (carpet) on the way out to the deck and then to top it all off had a sloppy shit where half of it sprayed on that top ledge bit of the bowl. Bought an instant kiwi that was a dud too.
@Bones said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@akan004 said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
Joe Moody missed a lot of tackles that night. Probably his worst performance in a black jersey.
I guess you haven't heard about that day Joe put on a black v-neck and proceeded to accidentally run over his neighbours cat, dropped his lunch on the floor (carpet) on the way out to the deck and then to top it all off had a sloppy shit where half of it sprayed on that top ledge bit of the bowl. Bought an instant kiwi that was a dud too.
This is why you didn't win the Fern Comedian award.
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Best bet for me is 6. Big mofo like Grace or Sotutu 7. Cane 8. Savea (he's a better 8 than 6 as he can use his speed off the back of the scrum here).
The loose forward trio is all about balance so it will depend on what roles Foster and Plumtree want from each position. Look at how Read's role changed with age from playing on the flanks to becoming a tighter player.
Even though Gatland played Cane at no.8 for the Chiefs against the Blues, much to Sam's surprise, I don't think he is suited to that position. Cane could be the option at 6, and he is a similar size to Messam would did well in the same position. That would allow Savea to remain at 7 if they find a ball-carrying no.8 (e.g. Sotutu, Ioane). But if Ardie stays at no.8 then Cane will be the openside and the 6 needs to be a lineout option, Savea providing the ball-carrying. Frizell would probably have the inside running.
I am assuming S Barrett starts at lock with Whitelock so that excludes him from being that option at 6. He lacks speed to play there anyway against most opposition.
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Congratulations Sam Cane.
Pretty surprised that it's not Sam Whitelock - I thought he had the inside track, particularly given the Cane-Savea conundrum.
On the other hand, I think Cane presents to the media significantly better than Whitelock - a bit less dour and a bit more eloquent - and that might carry through to the team as well.
Loose forward mix is the main concern I have with this - I think it's locking in Sam and Ardie in tandem. As I've said repeatedly, I don't like playing two sevens - however, most of the time we will get away with it.
Big test will be playing the Jaapies. They've found an opposite formula of playing a big pack with extra muscle on the bench to grind teams down and won a RWC doing it.
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I'm going to get crucified for this but
Ardie Savea is a luxury player at test level against most sides. He's dynamic, good on the run after contact on the fringes, and not bad over the ball. He'll look fantastic in loose games against Australia with their ordinary pack, or teams we are just better than.
Unfortunately test rugby is at least 60 minutes of trench warfare. Mainly played between the 22s, or if it gets close to the line, in close to the ruck. It's aerial kicks, and trying to breach the gain line through force. A Savea is not suited to that game style. S Cane is perfectly suited to it.
A Savea off the bench is a great use of resources, and shouldn't be viewed as a slight. S Cane should start every big test he is available for, and that makes him perfect captaincy material
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Congratulations Sam Cane.
Pretty surprised that it's not Sam Whitelock - I thought he had the inside track, particularly given the Cane-Savea conundrum.
On the other hand, I think Cane presents to the media significantly better than Whitelock - a bit less dour and a bit more eloquent - and that might carry through to the team as well.
Loose forward mix is the main concern I have with this - I think it's locking in Sam and Ardie in tandem. As I've said repeatedly, I don't like playing two sevens - however, most of the time we will get away with it.
Big test will be playing the Jaapies. They've found an opposite formula of playing a big pack with extra muscle on the bench to grind teams down and won a RWC doing it.
@Chris-B said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
Big test will be playing the Jaapies. They've found an opposite formula of playing a big pack with extra muscle on the bench to grind teams down and won a RWC doing it.
I think we'll crush them.
They dragged in a huge number of stars from the NH, and I don't think they will be there this year.
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@Chris-B said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
Big test will be playing the Jaapies. They've found an opposite formula of playing a big pack with extra muscle on the bench to grind teams down and won a RWC doing it.
I think we'll crush them.
They dragged in a huge number of stars from the NH, and I don't think they will be there this year.
@nzzp said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@Chris-B said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
Big test will be playing the Jaapies. They've found an opposite formula of playing a big pack with extra muscle on the bench to grind teams down and won a RWC doing it.
I think we'll crush them.
They dragged in a huge number of stars from the NH, and I don't think they will be there this year.
with what? It's not like we have this veteran, settled side just rolling in to a new year. There are question marks everywhere
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@nzzp said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@Chris-B said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
Big test will be playing the Jaapies. They've found an opposite formula of playing a big pack with extra muscle on the bench to grind teams down and won a RWC doing it.
I think we'll crush them.
They dragged in a huge number of stars from the NH, and I don't think they will be there this year.
with what? It's not like we have this veteran, settled side just rolling in to a new year. There are question marks everywhere
OK, checking who we've lost below. Dane Coles is a line call given age (although with some time off). Otherwise from the 31 man squad, I think we lose
Read
Todd
Crotty
SBW
BFA
temporarily: Brodie (at the moment)So 6 out of a squad of 31, and bluntly none of those were in good form last year. Some strong prospects coming through, right through the comp. So I think we don't drop off much at all, and I think SA drop off significantly.
From:
https://www.allblacks.com/news/all-blacks-squad-named-for-rugby-world-cup-2019/Forwards:
Hookers
Dane Coles (32, Hurricanes / Wellington, 64)
Liam Coltman (29, Highlanders / Otago, 5)
Codie Taylor (28, Crusaders / Canterbury, 44)
Props
Nepo Laulala (27, Chiefs / Counties Manukau, 19)
Joe Moody (30, Crusaders /Canterbury, 40)
Atu Moli (24, Chiefs / Ta$man, 2)
Angus Ta'avao (29, Chiefs / Taranaki, 7)
Ofa Tuungafasi (27, Blues / Auckland, 29)
Locks
Scott Barrett (25, Crusaders / Taranaki, 30)
Brodie Retallick (28, Chiefs / Hawke's Bay, 77)
Patrick Tuipulotu (26, Blues / Auckland, 24)
Samuel Whitelock (30, Crusaders / Canterbury, 111)
Loose forwards
Sam Cane (27, Chiefs / Bay of Plenty, 63)
Luke Jacobson (22, Chiefs / Waikato, 1)
Kieran Read (33, Crusaders / Counties Manukau, 121) - Captain
Ardie Savea (25, Hurricanes / Wellington, 38)
Matt Todd (31, Crusaders / Canterbury, 20)
Backs:
Halfbacks
TJ Perenara (27, Hurricanes / Wellington, 58)
Aaron Smith (30, Highlanders / Manawatu, 86)
Brad Weber (28, Chiefs / Hawke's Bay, 2)
First five-eighths
Beauden Barrett (28, Blues / Taranaki, 77)
Richie Mo'unga (25, Crusaders / Canterbury, 12)
Midfielders
Ryan Crotty (30, Crusaders / Canterbury, 44)
Jack Goodhue (24, Crusaders / Northland, 9)
Anton Lienert-Brown (24, Chiefs / Waikato, 37)
Sonny Bill Williams (33, Blues / Counties Manukau, 53)
Outside backs
Jordie Barrett (22, Hurricanes / Taranaki, 11)
George Bridge (24, Crusaders / Canterbury, 4)
Rieko Ioane (22, Blues / Auckland, 26)
Sevu Reece (22, Crusaders / Waikato, 2)
Ben Smith (33, Highlanders /Otago, 79) -
OK, checking who we've lost below. Dane Coles is a line call given age (although with some time off). Otherwise from the 31 man squad, I think we lose
Read
Todd
Crotty
SBW
BFA
temporarily: Brodie (at the moment)So 6 out of a squad of 31, and bluntly none of those were in good form last year. Some strong prospects coming through, right through the comp. So I think we don't drop off much at all, and I think SA drop off significantly.
From:
https://www.allblacks.com/news/all-blacks-squad-named-for-rugby-world-cup-2019/Forwards:
Hookers
Dane Coles (32, Hurricanes / Wellington, 64)
Liam Coltman (29, Highlanders / Otago, 5)
Codie Taylor (28, Crusaders / Canterbury, 44)
Props
Nepo Laulala (27, Chiefs / Counties Manukau, 19)
Joe Moody (30, Crusaders /Canterbury, 40)
Atu Moli (24, Chiefs / Ta$man, 2)
Angus Ta'avao (29, Chiefs / Taranaki, 7)
Ofa Tuungafasi (27, Blues / Auckland, 29)
Locks
Scott Barrett (25, Crusaders / Taranaki, 30)
Brodie Retallick (28, Chiefs / Hawke's Bay, 77)
Patrick Tuipulotu (26, Blues / Auckland, 24)
Samuel Whitelock (30, Crusaders / Canterbury, 111)
Loose forwards
Sam Cane (27, Chiefs / Bay of Plenty, 63)
Luke Jacobson (22, Chiefs / Waikato, 1)
Kieran Read (33, Crusaders / Counties Manukau, 121) - Captain
Ardie Savea (25, Hurricanes / Wellington, 38)
Matt Todd (31, Crusaders / Canterbury, 20)
Backs:
Halfbacks
TJ Perenara (27, Hurricanes / Wellington, 58)
Aaron Smith (30, Highlanders / Manawatu, 86)
Brad Weber (28, Chiefs / Hawke's Bay, 2)
First five-eighths
Beauden Barrett (28, Blues / Taranaki, 77)
Richie Mo'unga (25, Crusaders / Canterbury, 12)
Midfielders
Ryan Crotty (30, Crusaders / Canterbury, 44)
Jack Goodhue (24, Crusaders / Northland, 9)
Anton Lienert-Brown (24, Chiefs / Waikato, 37)
Sonny Bill Williams (33, Blues / Counties Manukau, 53)
Outside backs
Jordie Barrett (22, Hurricanes / Taranaki, 11)
George Bridge (24, Crusaders / Canterbury, 4)
Rieko Ioane (22, Blues / Auckland, 26)
Sevu Reece (22, Crusaders / Waikato, 2)
Ben Smith (33, Highlanders /Otago, 79)
