Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain
-
@Toddy NZ's best player last year on the bench? I don't think so. Who would be ahead of him?
@Canes4life The Captain.
Don't get me wrong. I don't think Cane is a better 7 than Savea. Cane is probably better against some teams but I don't believe he is out right a better 7.
I don't think the combination of starting Savea and Cane is a strong well rounded trio. My preference would be to start one or the other and not shoehorn them in to get our 'best' players on the park.
I would be more open to it if Akira was playing to his potential (lineout may still be too short) but I can't see any other loosie in NZ filling the gap. Grace would add height but no real carrying ability leaving Ardie to be the only ball carrier in the trio. Dalton may be a goer but I still worry about his concrete feet. Maybe Sotutu but he's a complete rookie.
It does look like it's going to be Foster's short term solution.
-
@Canes4life The Captain.
Don't get me wrong. I don't think Cane is a better 7 than Savea. Cane is probably better against some teams but I don't believe he is out right a better 7.
I don't think the combination of starting Savea and Cane is a strong well rounded trio. My preference would be to start one or the other and not shoehorn them in to get our 'best' players on the park.
I would be more open to it if Akira was playing to his potential (lineout may still be too short) but I can't see any other loosie in NZ filling the gap. Grace would add height but no real carrying ability leaving Ardie to be the only ball carrier in the trio. Dalton may be a goer but I still worry about his concrete feet. Maybe Sotutu but he's a complete rookie.
It does look like it's going to be Foster's short term solution.
@Toddy said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
I would be more open to it if Akira was playing to his potential (lineout may still be too short) but I can't see any other loosie in NZ filling the gap. Grace would add height but no real carrying ability leaving Ardie to be the only ball carrier in the trio. Dalton may be a goer but I still worry about his concrete feet. Maybe Sotutu but he's a complete rookie.
Tom Robinson would be the best fit. He’s fixed his accuracy issues this year
-
@akan004 said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
Joe Moody missed a lot of tackles that night. Probably his worst performance in a black jersey.
I guess you haven't heard about that day Joe put on a black v-neck and proceeded to accidentally run over his neighbours cat, dropped his lunch on the floor (carpet) on the way out to the deck and then to top it all off had a sloppy shit where half of it sprayed on that top ledge bit of the bowl. Bought an instant kiwi that was a dud too.
@Bones said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@akan004 said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
Joe Moody missed a lot of tackles that night. Probably his worst performance in a black jersey.
I guess you haven't heard about that day Joe put on a black v-neck and proceeded to accidentally run over his neighbours cat, dropped his lunch on the floor (carpet) on the way out to the deck and then to top it all off had a sloppy shit where half of it sprayed on that top ledge bit of the bowl. Bought an instant kiwi that was a dud too.
This is why you didn't win the Fern Comedian award.
-
Best bet for me is 6. Big mofo like Grace or Sotutu 7. Cane 8. Savea (he's a better 8 than 6 as he can use his speed off the back of the scrum here).
The loose forward trio is all about balance so it will depend on what roles Foster and Plumtree want from each position. Look at how Read's role changed with age from playing on the flanks to becoming a tighter player.
Even though Gatland played Cane at no.8 for the Chiefs against the Blues, much to Sam's surprise, I don't think he is suited to that position. Cane could be the option at 6, and he is a similar size to Messam would did well in the same position. That would allow Savea to remain at 7 if they find a ball-carrying no.8 (e.g. Sotutu, Ioane). But if Ardie stays at no.8 then Cane will be the openside and the 6 needs to be a lineout option, Savea providing the ball-carrying. Frizell would probably have the inside running.
I am assuming S Barrett starts at lock with Whitelock so that excludes him from being that option at 6. He lacks speed to play there anyway against most opposition.
-
Congratulations Sam Cane.
Pretty surprised that it's not Sam Whitelock - I thought he had the inside track, particularly given the Cane-Savea conundrum.
On the other hand, I think Cane presents to the media significantly better than Whitelock - a bit less dour and a bit more eloquent - and that might carry through to the team as well.
Loose forward mix is the main concern I have with this - I think it's locking in Sam and Ardie in tandem. As I've said repeatedly, I don't like playing two sevens - however, most of the time we will get away with it.
Big test will be playing the Jaapies. They've found an opposite formula of playing a big pack with extra muscle on the bench to grind teams down and won a RWC doing it.
-
I'm going to get crucified for this but
Ardie Savea is a luxury player at test level against most sides. He's dynamic, good on the run after contact on the fringes, and not bad over the ball. He'll look fantastic in loose games against Australia with their ordinary pack, or teams we are just better than.
Unfortunately test rugby is at least 60 minutes of trench warfare. Mainly played between the 22s, or if it gets close to the line, in close to the ruck. It's aerial kicks, and trying to breach the gain line through force. A Savea is not suited to that game style. S Cane is perfectly suited to it.
A Savea off the bench is a great use of resources, and shouldn't be viewed as a slight. S Cane should start every big test he is available for, and that makes him perfect captaincy material
-
Congratulations Sam Cane.
Pretty surprised that it's not Sam Whitelock - I thought he had the inside track, particularly given the Cane-Savea conundrum.
On the other hand, I think Cane presents to the media significantly better than Whitelock - a bit less dour and a bit more eloquent - and that might carry through to the team as well.
Loose forward mix is the main concern I have with this - I think it's locking in Sam and Ardie in tandem. As I've said repeatedly, I don't like playing two sevens - however, most of the time we will get away with it.
Big test will be playing the Jaapies. They've found an opposite formula of playing a big pack with extra muscle on the bench to grind teams down and won a RWC doing it.
@Chris-B said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
Big test will be playing the Jaapies. They've found an opposite formula of playing a big pack with extra muscle on the bench to grind teams down and won a RWC doing it.
I think we'll crush them.
They dragged in a huge number of stars from the NH, and I don't think they will be there this year.
-
@Chris-B said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
Big test will be playing the Jaapies. They've found an opposite formula of playing a big pack with extra muscle on the bench to grind teams down and won a RWC doing it.
I think we'll crush them.
They dragged in a huge number of stars from the NH, and I don't think they will be there this year.
@nzzp said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@Chris-B said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
Big test will be playing the Jaapies. They've found an opposite formula of playing a big pack with extra muscle on the bench to grind teams down and won a RWC doing it.
I think we'll crush them.
They dragged in a huge number of stars from the NH, and I don't think they will be there this year.
with what? It's not like we have this veteran, settled side just rolling in to a new year. There are question marks everywhere
-
@nzzp said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@Chris-B said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
Big test will be playing the Jaapies. They've found an opposite formula of playing a big pack with extra muscle on the bench to grind teams down and won a RWC doing it.
I think we'll crush them.
They dragged in a huge number of stars from the NH, and I don't think they will be there this year.
with what? It's not like we have this veteran, settled side just rolling in to a new year. There are question marks everywhere
OK, checking who we've lost below. Dane Coles is a line call given age (although with some time off). Otherwise from the 31 man squad, I think we lose
Read
Todd
Crotty
SBW
BFA
temporarily: Brodie (at the moment)So 6 out of a squad of 31, and bluntly none of those were in good form last year. Some strong prospects coming through, right through the comp. So I think we don't drop off much at all, and I think SA drop off significantly.
From:
https://www.allblacks.com/news/all-blacks-squad-named-for-rugby-world-cup-2019/Forwards:
Hookers
Dane Coles (32, Hurricanes / Wellington, 64)
Liam Coltman (29, Highlanders / Otago, 5)
Codie Taylor (28, Crusaders / Canterbury, 44)
Props
Nepo Laulala (27, Chiefs / Counties Manukau, 19)
Joe Moody (30, Crusaders /Canterbury, 40)
Atu Moli (24, Chiefs / Ta$man, 2)
Angus Ta'avao (29, Chiefs / Taranaki, 7)
Ofa Tuungafasi (27, Blues / Auckland, 29)
Locks
Scott Barrett (25, Crusaders / Taranaki, 30)
Brodie Retallick (28, Chiefs / Hawke's Bay, 77)
Patrick Tuipulotu (26, Blues / Auckland, 24)
Samuel Whitelock (30, Crusaders / Canterbury, 111)
Loose forwards
Sam Cane (27, Chiefs / Bay of Plenty, 63)
Luke Jacobson (22, Chiefs / Waikato, 1)
Kieran Read (33, Crusaders / Counties Manukau, 121) - Captain
Ardie Savea (25, Hurricanes / Wellington, 38)
Matt Todd (31, Crusaders / Canterbury, 20)
Backs:
Halfbacks
TJ Perenara (27, Hurricanes / Wellington, 58)
Aaron Smith (30, Highlanders / Manawatu, 86)
Brad Weber (28, Chiefs / Hawke's Bay, 2)
First five-eighths
Beauden Barrett (28, Blues / Taranaki, 77)
Richie Mo'unga (25, Crusaders / Canterbury, 12)
Midfielders
Ryan Crotty (30, Crusaders / Canterbury, 44)
Jack Goodhue (24, Crusaders / Northland, 9)
Anton Lienert-Brown (24, Chiefs / Waikato, 37)
Sonny Bill Williams (33, Blues / Counties Manukau, 53)
Outside backs
Jordie Barrett (22, Hurricanes / Taranaki, 11)
George Bridge (24, Crusaders / Canterbury, 4)
Rieko Ioane (22, Blues / Auckland, 26)
Sevu Reece (22, Crusaders / Waikato, 2)
Ben Smith (33, Highlanders /Otago, 79) -
OK, checking who we've lost below. Dane Coles is a line call given age (although with some time off). Otherwise from the 31 man squad, I think we lose
Read
Todd
Crotty
SBW
BFA
temporarily: Brodie (at the moment)So 6 out of a squad of 31, and bluntly none of those were in good form last year. Some strong prospects coming through, right through the comp. So I think we don't drop off much at all, and I think SA drop off significantly.
From:
https://www.allblacks.com/news/all-blacks-squad-named-for-rugby-world-cup-2019/Forwards:
Hookers
Dane Coles (32, Hurricanes / Wellington, 64)
Liam Coltman (29, Highlanders / Otago, 5)
Codie Taylor (28, Crusaders / Canterbury, 44)
Props
Nepo Laulala (27, Chiefs / Counties Manukau, 19)
Joe Moody (30, Crusaders /Canterbury, 40)
Atu Moli (24, Chiefs / Ta$man, 2)
Angus Ta'avao (29, Chiefs / Taranaki, 7)
Ofa Tuungafasi (27, Blues / Auckland, 29)
Locks
Scott Barrett (25, Crusaders / Taranaki, 30)
Brodie Retallick (28, Chiefs / Hawke's Bay, 77)
Patrick Tuipulotu (26, Blues / Auckland, 24)
Samuel Whitelock (30, Crusaders / Canterbury, 111)
Loose forwards
Sam Cane (27, Chiefs / Bay of Plenty, 63)
Luke Jacobson (22, Chiefs / Waikato, 1)
Kieran Read (33, Crusaders / Counties Manukau, 121) - Captain
Ardie Savea (25, Hurricanes / Wellington, 38)
Matt Todd (31, Crusaders / Canterbury, 20)
Backs:
Halfbacks
TJ Perenara (27, Hurricanes / Wellington, 58)
Aaron Smith (30, Highlanders / Manawatu, 86)
Brad Weber (28, Chiefs / Hawke's Bay, 2)
First five-eighths
Beauden Barrett (28, Blues / Taranaki, 77)
Richie Mo'unga (25, Crusaders / Canterbury, 12)
Midfielders
Ryan Crotty (30, Crusaders / Canterbury, 44)
Jack Goodhue (24, Crusaders / Northland, 9)
Anton Lienert-Brown (24, Chiefs / Waikato, 37)
Sonny Bill Williams (33, Blues / Counties Manukau, 53)
Outside backs
Jordie Barrett (22, Hurricanes / Taranaki, 11)
George Bridge (24, Crusaders / Canterbury, 4)
Rieko Ioane (22, Blues / Auckland, 26)
Sevu Reece (22, Crusaders / Waikato, 2)
Ben Smith (33, Highlanders /Otago, 79) -
-
@Hooroo said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@nzzp isn't BBBR on sabbatical for the year? or is he returning for test rugby?
out for 2020 AND 2021 super, and 2020 inernationals I understood. Hence why he's a 'temporary' rather than permanent (retiree)
@nzzp said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@Hooroo said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@nzzp isn't BBBR on sabbatical for the year? or is he returning for test rugby?
out for 2020 AND 2021 super, and 2020 inernationals I understood. Hence why he's a 'temporary' rather than permanent (retiree)
Roger that! Was going through the squad list and skipped that part of your post.
-
names are all well and good
None of our props are exactly dominant, all are just good
Our best hooker is past his best, our next best is no better than solid. The 3rd isn't to standard
Our best lock is unavailable. Our 2nd best looks cooked. 3rd and 4th don't look to standard.
In the loosies we have 2 opensides. And that's it.
Halfback, good. to start anyway
10 looks okay
Midifeld we have options, but no combination
Question marks in the outside backs.New coaches too.
-
@nzzp said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@Hooroo said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@nzzp isn't BBBR on sabbatical for the year? or is he returning for test rugby?
out for 2020 AND 2021 super, and 2020 inernationals I understood. Hence why he's a 'temporary' rather than permanent (retiree)
Roger that! Was going through the squad list and skipped that part of your post.
@Hooroo also, check this out from a super reliable source I've never heard of befor:
https://home.nzcity.co.nz/news/article.aspx?id=310876
No change of plan for Brodie Retallick despite having just that happen to him
1 May 2020The All Black lock is back in New Zealand following the suspension of Japan's Top League competition.
The prospect of a longer off season to help refresh mind and body was one of the main draw cards for Retallick to play in Japan.
He says he wants to stick with that even if rugby does resume in New Zealand. -
names are all well and good
None of our props are exactly dominant, all are just good
Our best hooker is past his best, our next best is no better than solid. The 3rd isn't to standard
Our best lock is unavailable. Our 2nd best looks cooked. 3rd and 4th don't look to standard.
In the loosies we have 2 opensides. And that's it.
Halfback, good. to start anyway
10 looks okay
Midifeld we have options, but no combination
Question marks in the outside backs.New coaches too.
-
names are all well and good
None of our props are exactly dominant, all are just good
Our best hooker is past his best, our next best is no better than solid. The 3rd isn't to standard
Our best lock is unavailable. Our 2nd best looks cooked. 3rd and 4th don't look to standard.
In the loosies we have 2 opensides. And that's it.
Halfback, good. to start anyway
10 looks okay
Midifeld we have options, but no combination
Question marks in the outside backs.New coaches too.
@mariner4life If Taukei'aho learned how to throw he'd be in the 23 every time.
-
A few players that will push selection for me based on early season form are H Sotutu (Blues) T Lomax (Canes) L Boshier (Chiefs) C Grace (Crusaders) A Aumua (Canes) T Robinson (Blues) & D Havili (but not too sure what his status is)
A certainty in the midfield has to be Ngani Laumape to replace SBW and I would have Ennor in there to replace Crotty with Goodhue covering 12 aswell.
-
in favour of the likes of Whitelock, Coles, Cane, BBBR and and some of the more experienced players, this break will have been an enforced rest for thier bodies, and I reckon will come back re-energised!
Obviously same for other teams too, but if those kinds of players are firing on all cylinders....
-
in favour of the likes of Whitelock, Coles, Cane, BBBR and and some of the more experienced players, this break will have been an enforced rest for thier bodies, and I reckon will come back re-energised!
Obviously same for other teams too, but if those kinds of players are firing on all cylinders....
@taniwharugby said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
in favour of the likes of Whitelock, Coles, Cane, BBBR and and some of the more experienced players, this break will have been an enforced rest for thier bodies, and I reckon will come back re-energised!
Obviously same for other teams too, but if those kinds of players are firing on all cylinders....
it's a pretty big if
