AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?
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@sparky said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@booboo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
Having read the rest of the thread and various teams picked I'm surprised at the reluctance to start Reiko, given his form and Fozzie' s comments.
His peril as a starting 11 for the ABs is Caleb Clarke who is looking an outstanding prospect.
Lots of people picking Clarke as the starting winger. I would want him to see him perform for more than a handful of games before relegating Ioane to the bench.
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@pukunui Yeah, I don't think he'll be picked ahead Reece.
Also, I don't think they'll pick Jordan ahead of Havili.
@Stargazer said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@pukunui Yeah, I don't think he'll be picked ahead Reece.
Also, I don't think they'll pick Jordan ahead of Havili.
Yeah I don’t think Jordan will be ahead of Havili at 15 either.
If BB is at 10 i would start Havili at 15.
If BB is at 15 i would start Mounga at 10 and have Havili on the bench.I would give Jordan his chance at 14. But they are likely to stick with Reece there because there are hardly any tests this year.
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@mofitzy_ said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
Jordan is definitely more of a raw talent and weapon than Bridge. Bridge doesn't create as much as Jordan and doesn't have the physical gifts. Just because Jordan is a WBC doesn't mean he isn't the best young FB in the country (not including BB as he is now neither young or a pure 15). We need a proper fullback and I believe Jordan is that guy.
Who is the best young lineout hooker?
At the moment, Ash Dixon.
@Stargazer said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@mofitzy_ said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
Jordan is definitely more of a raw talent and weapon than Bridge. Bridge doesn't create as much as Jordan and doesn't have the physical gifts. Just because Jordan is a WBC doesn't mean he isn't the best young FB in the country (not including BB as he is now neither young or a pure 15). We need a proper fullback and I believe Jordan is that guy.
Who is the best young lineout hooker?
At the moment, Ash Dixon.
Young though?
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@Stargazer said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@mofitzy_ said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
Jordan is definitely more of a raw talent and weapon than Bridge. Bridge doesn't create as much as Jordan and doesn't have the physical gifts. Just because Jordan is a WBC doesn't mean he isn't the best young FB in the country (not including BB as he is now neither young or a pure 15). We need a proper fullback and I believe Jordan is that guy.
Who is the best young lineout hooker?
At the moment, Ash Dixon.
Young though?
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@Crucial said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
The love for Will Jordan on this thread sounds very much like the love for George Bridge last year. Just saying.
Good player but he's not a patch on prime Ben Smith (which is the benchmark)
If Ben Smith is the benchmark, then Jordan has plenty of time to develop into that player. There's no need to rush him in at this stage when there are plenty of other options.
That being said, they could start him on the right wing in the same way they did with Israel Dagg (and Ben Smith for that matter).
@junior said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
If Ben Smith is the benchmark, then Jordan has plenty of time to develop into that player. There's no need to rush him in at this stage when there are plenty of other options.
That being said, they could start him on the right wing in the same way they did with Israel Dagg (and Ben Smith for that matter).
Jordan is an outstanding young talent but I would like to see more of him under pressure to see how he copes. So far he's had a good run in dominant teams ( Ta$man, Crusaders).
While playing him on the wing does make sense I am reminded of the Waikato- Ta$man game last year when Jordan was badly exposed twice on defence playing on the right wing leading to tries.
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On the age thing, very few of the contenders are older than 25.
Excluding the halfbacks....
Beaudy is a relative old man at 29.
Ngani Laumape (who's not getting mentioned, but I'd expect to be in the mix) is 27.
Richie Mo'unga recently turned 26.
None of the rest (I'm pretty sure) are older than 25 - ALB, Goodhue, Rieko, Ennor, Bridge, Reece, Clarke, Talea, Jordan, Jordie, DMac, Havili.
A wealth of talent there, and various others to come - e.g. Big Leicester who's struggling to get a shot at the Crusaders.
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On the age thing, very few of the contenders are older than 25.
Excluding the halfbacks....
Beaudy is a relative old man at 29.
Ngani Laumape (who's not getting mentioned, but I'd expect to be in the mix) is 27.
Richie Mo'unga recently turned 26.
None of the rest (I'm pretty sure) are older than 25 - ALB, Goodhue, Rieko, Ennor, Bridge, Reece, Clarke, Talea, Jordan, Jordie, DMac, Havili.
A wealth of talent there, and various others to come - e.g. Big Leicester who's struggling to get a shot at the Crusaders.
@Chris-B said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
On the age thing, very few of the contenders are older than 25.
Excluding the halfbacks....
Beaudy is a relative old man at 29.
Ngani Laumape (who's not getting mentioned, but I'd expect to be in the mix) is 27.
Richie Mo'unga recently turned 26.
None of the rest (I'm pretty sure) are older than 25 - ALB, Goodhue, Rieko, Ennor, Bridge, Reece, Clarke, Talea, Jordan, Jordie, DMac, Havili.
A wealth of talent there, and various others to come - e.g. Big Leicester who's struggling to get a shot at the Crusaders.
That's a real positive IMO, as it augurs well not just for 2023 but also, potentially, 2027.
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@Bones said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
Telea will have to sever ties with South Africa and Samoa.
What ties does he have with Seth Efrica?
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@Bones said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
Telea will have to sever ties with South Africa and Samoa.
What ties does he have with Seth Efrica?
@antipodean said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Bones said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
Telea will have to sever ties with South Africa and Samoa.
What ties does he have with Seth Efrica?
One of his parents is from there. He's tied, like Hoskins Sotutu is to Fiji.
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@Bones said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
Telea will have to sever ties with South Africa and Samoa.
Anyone got any inside oil on whether Mark Telea would prefer to play for SA, Samoa or the ABs?
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@junior said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
If Ben Smith is the benchmark, then Jordan has plenty of time to develop into that player. There's no need to rush him in at this stage when there are plenty of other options.
That being said, they could start him on the right wing in the same way they did with Israel Dagg (and Ben Smith for that matter).
Jordan is an outstanding young talent but I would like to see more of him under pressure to see how he copes. So far he's had a good run in dominant teams ( Ta$man, Crusaders).
While playing him on the wing does make sense I am reminded of the Waikato- Ta$man game last year when Jordan was badly exposed twice on defence playing on the right wing leading to tries.
@Bovidae said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@junior said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
If Ben Smith is the benchmark, then Jordan has plenty of time to develop into that player. There's no need to rush him in at this stage when there are plenty of other options.
That being said, they could start him on the right wing in the same way they did with Israel Dagg (and Ben Smith for that matter).
Jordan is an outstanding young talent but I would like to see more of him under pressure to see how he copes. So far he's had a good run in dominant teams ( Ta$man, Crusaders).
While playing him on the wing does make sense I am reminded of the Waikato- Ta$man game last year when Jordan was badly exposed twice on defence playing on the right wing leading to tries.
He is a far better full back than right wing IMO. He looks lost in defense there.
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I'm hugely concerned by this talk of Clarke, Jordan and Dmac making up our back 3. Inexperienced and eratic does not bode well for a tight test match.
@voodoo no need for concern, we arent playing RWC pool matches, so no way in hell will those 3 start a test for us this year.
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I'm hugely concerned by this talk of Clarke, Jordan and Dmac making up our back 3. Inexperienced and eratic does not bode well for a tight test match.
@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
I'm hugely concerned by this talk of Clarke, Jordan and Dmac making up our back 3. Inexperienced and eratic does not bode well for a tight test match.
I think it would be Jordan or Dmac.
I'd suspect that if we see Clarke, we might see B Barrett back there in 15.
I want to see if Clarke or Ioane can play 14 - I'm not convinced by Reece or Bridge and I think the Auckland boys are better.
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@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
I'm hugely concerned by this talk of Clarke, Jordan and Dmac making up our back 3. Inexperienced and eratic does not bode well for a tight test match.
I think it would be Jordan or Dmac.
I'd suspect that if we see Clarke, we might see B Barrett back there in 15.
I want to see if Clarke or Ioane can play 14 - I'm not convinced by Reece or Bridge and I think the Auckland boys are better.
@gt12 said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
I'm hugely concerned by this talk of Clarke, Jordan and Dmac making up our back 3. Inexperienced and eratic does not bode well for a tight test match.
I think it would be Jordan or Dmac.
I'd suspect that if we see Clarke, we might see B Barrett back there in 15.
I want to see if Clarke or Ioane can play 14 - I'm not convinced by Reece or Bridge and I think the Auckland boys are better.
I know Bridge isn’t flavour of the month, but what’s wrong with Reece. I thought he showed enough that doesn’t warrant discarding yet.
My back 3 is B. Barrett, Ioane and Reece.
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@gt12 said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
I'm hugely concerned by this talk of Clarke, Jordan and Dmac making up our back 3. Inexperienced and eratic does not bode well for a tight test match.
I think it would be Jordan or Dmac.
I'd suspect that if we see Clarke, we might see B Barrett back there in 15.
I want to see if Clarke or Ioane can play 14 - I'm not convinced by Reece or Bridge and I think the Auckland boys are better.
I know Bridge isn’t flavour of the month, but what’s wrong with Reece. I thought he showed enough that doesn’t warrant discarding yet.
My back 3 is B. Barrett, Ioane and Reece.
Beyond the fact that he is a poach and a wife beater, I think he misses enough tackles, turns over the ball, and makes enough handling errors, whilst not being super Mr safe under the high ball, that we should be asking questions about whether he is the best person for the 14 jersey. He is tiny (although very strong) and I don't see him as a great fit in an era when we need at least one wing who is a fullback/wing.
That means he has to be better than others who are power/man beaters and I think Clark is (definitely will be) better in that role.
Some things in his favor are his relationship with Mo'unga, especially on cross kicks, and his ability to work hard and make something out of nothing. However, that happens far less at AB level and he can be put under pressure from runners and high kicks. He doesn't have the strength of others either.
Mark Telea has similar issues, as does Ioane - interestingly he also has had a few missed tackles this year too.
I personally think that Reece wouldn't have gone close if he hadn't been playing for the Crusaders. But, that's neither here nor there.
IMO, both wing spots should be up for grabs.
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Beyond the fact that he is a poach and a wife beater, I think he misses enough tackles, turns over the ball, and makes enough handling errors, whilst not being super Mr safe under the high ball, that we should be asking questions about whether he is the best person for the 14 jersey. He is tiny (although very strong) and I don't see him as a great fit in an era when we need at least one wing who is a fullback/wing.
That means he has to be better than others who are power/man beaters and I think Clark is (definitely will be) better in that role.
Some things in his favor are his relationship with Mo'unga, especially on cross kicks, and his ability to work hard and make something out of nothing. However, that happens far less at AB level and he can be put under pressure from runners and high kicks. He doesn't have the strength of others either.
Mark Telea has similar issues, as does Ioane - interestingly he also has had a few missed tackles this year too.
I personally think that Reece wouldn't have gone close if he hadn't been playing for the Crusaders. But, that's neither here nor there.
IMO, both wing spots should be up for grabs.
@gt12 haven’t seen him miss many tackles or not take the high ball. I’ve seen him knock the ball on but that’s neither here or nor there.
Whether he’s playing for the Saders or some other team it doesn’t matter because the guy has pace that we need for both attack and defence. He’s a dangerous threat every time he gets the ball.
As to his character, well that’s something the new coaches will have to make a call on.
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@gt12 haven’t seen him miss many tackles or not take the high ball. I’ve seen him knock the ball on but that’s neither here or nor there.
Whether he’s playing for the Saders or some other team it doesn’t matter because the guy has pace that we need for both attack and defence. He’s a dangerous threat every time he gets the ball.
As to his character, well that’s something the new coaches will have to make a call on.
Going by stats from Fox for this year, for example, he's way down on running metres where Telea leads; does OK for line breaks (6 after Ioane who leads for NZ players with 10); is 4th for tackles busts after Telea, Ioane, and Bridge; leads in offloads; is third equal for turnovers (after Bridge and Telea - and is tied with Ioane); is 7th for handling errors (Bridge leads with 11, Ioane 7, Telea 6, Reece 5); has a YC and two penalties; and leads in missed tackles (8, with Ioane and Telea both having 7 misses).
So, they are all a much of a muchness.
He's not clearly put his hand up and shown that he should be retained. I can't see why questioning whether he is the right man to hold his position or not is very controversial.
