Chiefs 2021
-
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2021:
@Hooroo said in Chiefs 2021:
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2021:
@Bovidae said in Chiefs 2021:
I hope not. The Chiefs need to fill holes in other positions.
Me too, terrible call if they go down that route.
It would probably make us stronger but at the expense of developing a local talent. Yuck.
I would rather win the comp than develop talent that ends up being rubbish
He’s not a Dan Carter level talent, and he won’t be the winning of the competition (despite being a fantastic player). We still won’t be strong enough up front - and he’ll cost money we could use elsewhere more effectively.
I kind of meant that I am happy to get in really talented players to help win the thing than establish what could be a bit of rubbish.
I get that, but its such a short term strategy for a player like him, and the players we have are pretty good - Trask looks class and we need to give him time out there at 10 or 15. By signing this guy, we’re telling one of the form young players that he isn’t good enough.
If we signed an international lock to cover for BBBR is be much more on board with the idea as those options still need lots of development.
-
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2021:
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2021:
i would take him over any of our 10 options
He’s better, but that’s not a good enough reason for me - we need to hold on and develop our existing options as he’ll only stick around for a year.
We could also argue that putting Dmac at 10 might be our best option - at least that would open up 15 for Trask.
yuck
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2021:
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2021:
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2021:
i would take him over any of our 10 options
He’s better, but that’s not a good enough reason for me - we need to hold on and develop our existing options as he’ll only stick around for a year.
We could also argue that putting Dmac at 10 might be our best option - at least that would open up 15 for Trask.
yuck
I dunno, id be interested to see what he’d go like there. And it would be a good way of taking some pressure off Trask but still have two playmakers.
Its really his only way of getting the AB 22 jersey as we cant carry a FB on the bench.
-
I get that, but its such a short term strategy for a player like him, and the players we have are pretty good - Trask looks class and we need to give him time out there at 10 or 15. By signing this guy, we’re telling one of the form young players that he isn’t good enough.
If we signed an international lock to cover for BBBR is be much more on board with the idea as those options still need lots of development.
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2021:
I get that, but its such a short term strategy for a player like him, and the players we have are pretty good - Trask looks class and we need to give him time out there at 10 or 15. By signing this guy, we’re telling one of the form young players that he isn’t good enough.
If we signed an international lock to cover for BBBR is be much more on board with the idea as those options still need lots of development.
I don't think it is a short term strategy as if it brings success over a sustained period you end up with a legacy. I support the Chiefs as a fan that wants to see them win. So long as the player has the teams best interest, I don't care where they are from.
Through success you have a better academy that can then drive up the local talent and be rid of the dross.
Bring in all the outside excellence we can, I say.
-
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2021:
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2021:
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2021:
i would take him over any of our 10 options
He’s better, but that’s not a good enough reason for me - we need to hold on and develop our existing options as he’ll only stick around for a year.
We could also argue that putting Dmac at 10 might be our best option - at least that would open up 15 for Trask.
yuck
I dunno, id be interested to see what he’d go like there. And it would be a good way of taking some pressure off Trask but still have two playmakers.
Its really his only way of getting the AB 22 jersey as we cant carry a FB on the bench.
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2021:
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2021:
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2021:
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2021:
i would take him over any of our 10 options
He’s better, but that’s not a good enough reason for me - we need to hold on and develop our existing options as he’ll only stick around for a year.
We could also argue that putting Dmac at 10 might be our best option - at least that would open up 15 for Trask.
yuck
I dunno, id be interested to see what he’d go like there. And it would be a good way of taking some pressure off Trask but still have two playmakers.
Its really his only way of getting the AB 22 jersey as we cant carry a FB on the bench.
I've seen how he goes there, it's shithouse.
-
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2021:
I get that, but its such a short term strategy for a player like him, and the players we have are pretty good - Trask looks class and we need to give him time out there at 10 or 15. By signing this guy, we’re telling one of the form young players that he isn’t good enough.
If we signed an international lock to cover for BBBR is be much more on board with the idea as those options still need lots of development.
I don't think it is a short term strategy as if it brings success over a sustained period you end up with a legacy. I support the Chiefs as a fan that wants to see them win. So long as the player has the teams best interest, I don't care where they are from.
Through success you have a better academy that can then drive up the local talent and be rid of the dross.
Bring in all the outside excellence we can, I say.
@Hooroo said in Chiefs 2021:
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2021:
I get that, but its such a short term strategy for a player like him, and the players we have are pretty good - Trask looks class and we need to give him time out there at 10 or 15. By signing this guy, we’re telling one of the form young players that he isn’t good enough.
If we signed an international lock to cover for BBBR is be much more on board with the idea as those options still need lots of development.
I don't think it is a short term strategy as if it brings success over a sustained period you end up with a legacy. I support the Chiefs as a fan that wants to see them win. So long as the player has the teams best interest, I don't care where they are from.
Through success you have a better academy that can then drive up the local talent and be rid of the dross.
Bring in all the outside excellence we can, I say.
There are only 5 starting spots available for potential AB10s, and I fdon't like us keeping the Oz 10 going while reducing the opportunities to develop another AB 10.
I'm a Chiefs fan, but AB success and the potential to develop future Abs is more important.
-
Is he better than all our 10 options right now? Yes
Are any of those 10 options likely to be better than him next year or even the year after? No
Do young players get better when helped by better, more experienced players? yesIt is a signing that ticks a lot of boxes in my eyes
-
@Hooroo said in Chiefs 2021:
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2021:
I get that, but its such a short term strategy for a player like him, and the players we have are pretty good - Trask looks class and we need to give him time out there at 10 or 15. By signing this guy, we’re telling one of the form young players that he isn’t good enough.
If we signed an international lock to cover for BBBR is be much more on board with the idea as those options still need lots of development.
I don't think it is a short term strategy as if it brings success over a sustained period you end up with a legacy. I support the Chiefs as a fan that wants to see them win. So long as the player has the teams best interest, I don't care where they are from.
Through success you have a better academy that can then drive up the local talent and be rid of the dross.
Bring in all the outside excellence we can, I say.
There are only 5 starting spots available for potential AB10s, and I fdon't like us keeping the Oz 10 going while reducing the opportunities to develop another AB 10.
I'm a Chiefs fan, but AB success and the potential to develop future Abs is more important.
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2021:
@Hooroo said in Chiefs 2021:
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2021:
I get that, but its such a short term strategy for a player like him, and the players we have are pretty good - Trask looks class and we need to give him time out there at 10 or 15. By signing this guy, we’re telling one of the form young players that he isn’t good enough.
If we signed an international lock to cover for BBBR is be much more on board with the idea as those options still need lots of development.
I don't think it is a short term strategy as if it brings success over a sustained period you end up with a legacy. I support the Chiefs as a fan that wants to see them win. So long as the player has the teams best interest, I don't care where they are from.
Through success you have a better academy that can then drive up the local talent and be rid of the dross.
Bring in all the outside excellence we can, I say.
There are only 5 starting spots available for potential AB10s, and I fdon't like us keeping the Oz 10 going while reducing the opportunities to develop another AB 10.
I'm a Chiefs fan, but AB success and the potential to develop future Abs is more important.
are we really thinking he is holding back a potential test player? really? Trask is probably the best, and is he looking like a test player next year?
-
Disgusting! I sure hope this is not true. Very poor form from the Chiefs if it is. Poor Fletcher Smith, forced out altogether. And what does it do for Kaleb Trask and Bryn Gatland, both hoping for decent game time this year?
I would have thought a big bruising runner at Number 8 or lock would have been a better addition by far. And they still look to be a quality winger short. If they do sign O'Connor, I hope they play him on the wing.
-
I get that, but its such a short term strategy for a player like him, and the players we have are pretty good - Trask looks class and we need to give him time out there at 10 or 15. By signing this guy, we’re telling one of the form young players that he isn’t good enough.
If we signed an international lock to cover for BBBR is be much more on board with the idea as those options still need lots of development.
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2021:
If we signed an international lock to cover for BBBR is be much more on board with the idea as those options still need lots of development.
Or a big, fast international winger.
Why select 3 1st 5s in the squad (excluding DMac) if this signing was on the cards? It makes no sense to me.
-
Is he better than all our 10 options right now? Yes
Are any of those 10 options likely to be better than him next year or even the year after? No
Do young players get better when helped by better, more experienced players? yesIt is a signing that ticks a lot of boxes in my eyes
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2021:
Is he better than all our 10 options right now? Yes
Are any of those 10 options likely to be better than him next year or even the year after? No
Do young players get better when helped by better, more experienced players? yesIt is a signing that ticks a lot of boxes in my eyes
Has he been shown to be a cancer in the dressing room before? Yes.
Can we keep him for more than a year? UnlikelyAnd to your reply to my post about a potential test player. They aren't test players right now, with a season of Super rugby at 10 or 15, I think Trask could enter the conversation for the 3rd 10/15 in NZ (I think he'll get invited to a camp at some stage).
Finally, we signed three 10s, so now our balance is wrong unless we play him in the midfield, where again he'll slow down a younger player.
-
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2021:
If we signed an international lock to cover for BBBR is be much more on board with the idea as those options still need lots of development.
Or a big, fast international winger.
Why select 3 1st 5s in the squad (excluding DMac) if this signing was on the cards? It makes no sense to me.
@Bovidae said in Chiefs 2021:
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2021:
If we signed an international lock to cover for BBBR is be much more on board with the idea as those options still need lots of development.
Or a big, fast international winger.
Why select 3 1st 5s in the squad (excluding DMac) if this signing was on the cards? It makes no sense to me.
Again though, we should be able to sign local players who do a role for us on the wing. I'm way against us siging overseas7 players when we have so few spots available to develop ABs. I don't care which team it is. Now, if we had a Super competition with 12 teams that allowed ABs to be selected from Oz and Japan sides, I'd be much happier with us drawing on non kiwis, but as things stand, it should be an absolute exception or covering for a player on Sabbatical (e.g. BBBR).
-
@Bovidae said in Chiefs 2021:
I hope not. The Chiefs need to fill holes in other positions.
Me too, terrible call if they go down that route.
It would probably make us stronger but at the expense of developing a local talent. Yuck.
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2021:
@Bovidae said in Chiefs 2021:
I hope not. The Chiefs need to fill holes in other positions.
Me too, terrible call if they go down that route.
It would probably make us stronger but at the expense of developing a local talent. Yuck.
So he would make us stronger but you don't want it because it is at the expense of developing local talent?
Now your banging on about dressing room concerns?
Can we get in other talented people at the expense of local talent or not?
-
@KiwiMurph said in Chiefs 2021:
James O'Connor for that extra spot?
Does he even know Waikato Draft is the local drop?
-
@KiwiMurph said in Chiefs 2021:
James O'Connor for that extra spot?
Does he even know Waikato Draft is the local drop?
@Stockcar86 well when your current local drop is XXXX......
-
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2021:
Is he better than all our 10 options right now? Yes
Are any of those 10 options likely to be better than him next year or even the year after? No
Do young players get better when helped by better, more experienced players? yesIt is a signing that ticks a lot of boxes in my eyes
Has he been shown to be a cancer in the dressing room before? Yes.
Can we keep him for more than a year? UnlikelyAnd to your reply to my post about a potential test player. They aren't test players right now, with a season of Super rugby at 10 or 15, I think Trask could enter the conversation for the 3rd 10/15 in NZ (I think he'll get invited to a camp at some stage).
Finally, we signed three 10s, so now our balance is wrong unless we play him in the midfield, where again he'll slow down a younger player.
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2021:
Finally, we signed three 10s, so now our balance is wrong unless we play him in the midfield, where again he'll slow down a younger player
and yet you want to play a proven failure at 10 who is signed as a fullback.
these types of signings make the comp better, using it as a development program for ABs has made it worse.
If Trask is as good as you think, he'll be starting by the end of the comp anyway. I personally can't see that happening
I would rather we bought a big fuck off South African lock, and a #8, and Tupou. But i'll take a talented and proven 10 if i can get one.
-
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2021:
@Bovidae said in Chiefs 2021:
I hope not. The Chiefs need to fill holes in other positions.
Me too, terrible call if they go down that route.
It would probably make us stronger but at the expense of developing a local talent. Yuck.
So he would make us stronger but you don't want it because it is at the expense of developing local talent?
Now your banging on about dressing room concerns?
Can we get in other talented people at the expense of local talent or not?
@Hooroo said in Chiefs 2021:
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2021:
@Bovidae said in Chiefs 2021:
I hope not. The Chiefs need to fill holes in other positions.
Me too, terrible call if they go down that route.
It would probably make us stronger but at the expense of developing a local talent. Yuck.
So he would make us stronger but you don't want it because it is at the expense of developing local talent?
Now your banging on about dressing room concerns?
Can we get in other talented people at the expense of local talent or not?
I think I'm allowed a number of reasons for objecting to the signing?
The local talent thing (as I explained above) is that we (NZ rugby) only has 5 starting spots available to develop AB 10s, so regardless of the team, if you can sign someone of Super quality level (we have at least three IMO), then that's what you get.
Furthermore, we also have already signed three 10s plus Dmac , so I don't see the point of the signing - we'll have either Gatland or Trask sitting around, and the Reihana signing will have been a waste of a spot.
-
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2021:
Finally, we signed three 10s, so now our balance is wrong unless we play him in the midfield, where again he'll slow down a younger player
and yet you want to play a proven failure at 10 who is signed as a fullback.
these types of signings make the comp better, using it as a development program for ABs has made it worse.
If Trask is as good as you think, he'll be starting by the end of the comp anyway. I personally can't see that happening
I would rather we bought a big fuck off South African lock, and a #8, and Tupou. But i'll take a talented and proven 10 if i can get one.
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2021:
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2021:
Finally, we signed three 10s, so now our balance is wrong unless we play him in the midfield, where again he'll slow down a younger player
and yet you want to play a proven failure at 10 who is signed as a fullback.
these types of signings make the comp better, using it as a development program for ABs has made it worse.
If Trask is as good as you think, he'll be starting by the end of the comp anyway. I personally can't see that happening
I would rather we bought a big fuck off South African lock, and a #8, and Tupou. But i'll take a talented and proven 10 if i can get one.
Then I hope you are also arguing for a change in AB selection, because that means we have four to choose from.
Is Super rugby worse because it is the only pathway for ABs? Does the requirement to play in Super rugby for an NZ team continue to be the best way to develop and retain talent?
The answer is yes.
I know that the team and comp would be better, but under the current model, that could (will) make the ABs worse.
Also, those signings you mentioned would all make sense to strengthen the Chiefs. But, who should pay for them? NZ rugby? At the cost of keeping future potential ABs?
-
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2021:
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2021:
Finally, we signed three 10s, so now our balance is wrong unless we play him in the midfield, where again he'll slow down a younger player
and yet you want to play a proven failure at 10 who is signed as a fullback.
these types of signings make the comp better, using it as a development program for ABs has made it worse.
If Trask is as good as you think, he'll be starting by the end of the comp anyway. I personally can't see that happening
I would rather we bought a big fuck off South African lock, and a #8, and Tupou. But i'll take a talented and proven 10 if i can get one.
Then I hope you are also arguing for a change in AB selection, because that means we have four to choose from.
Is Super rugby worse because it is the only pathway for ABs? Does the requirement to play in Super rugby for an NZ team continue to be the best way to develop and retain talent?
The answer is yes.
I know that the team and comp would be better, but under the current model, that could (will) make the ABs worse.
Also, those signings you mentioned would all make sense to strengthen the Chiefs. But, who should pay for them? NZ rugby? At the cost of keeping future potential ABs?
