The Cane vs Savea Debate
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@Frank said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
Debate's over.
Cane is better in tests.
Lock the thread please.I think it's a little more general than that - current loosies need to excel at supporting themselves over the breakdown AND being able to use tackling as a weapon t build defensive advantage by either hitting hard or quickly geting up from the tackle to compete for the ball. Ardies strengths are outside those key areas. Cane can tick both of those boxes. According to ESPN, Sotutu made 9 tackles to Ardies 8 - Cane had 25 and Frizell had 15.
For me, Ardie is a modern day Michael Jones in that he is quick and skillful with the ball and reads the game well to provide support/link play but isn't an out-and-out fetcher or ball runner. Jones had the advantage of being bigger/stronger than many of his contemporaries allowing him to outmuscle opponents on defence and be an effective bal runner while Ardie is on the smaller side compared to his contemporaries inspite of being bigger than Jones.
So does Ardie fit into a current International rugby side? He's an ideal replacement in that he can cover 6-8 and provide a lineout option but I think we have better options to start across 6-8 and it's only Ardies International experience that gives him an advantage at the moment.
@PecoTrain said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@Frank said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
Debate's over.
Cane is better in tests.
Lock the thread please.I think it's a little more general than that - current loosies need to excel at supporting themselves over the breakdown AND being able to use tackling as a weapon t build defensive advantage by either hitting hard or quickly geting up from the tackle to compete for the ball. Ardies strengths are outside those key areas. Cane can tick both of those boxes. According to ESPN, Sotutu made 9 tackles to Ardies 8 - Cane had 25 and Frizell had 15.
For me, Ardie is a modern day Michael Jones in that he is quick and skillful with the ball and reads the game well to provide support/link play but isn't an out-and-out fetcher or ball runner. Jones had the advantage of being bigger/stronger than many of his contemporaries allowing him to outmuscle opponents on defence and be an effective bal runner while Ardie is on the smaller side compared to his contemporaries inspite of being bigger than Jones.
So does Ardie fit into a current International rugby side? He's an ideal replacement in that he can cover 6-8 and provide a lineout option but I think we have better options to start across 6-8 and it's only Ardies International experience that gives him an advantage at the moment.
That's quite incredible from Sotutu in such a short space of time and exactly what you want from a bench player - it basically needs to be at least one significant involvement a minute when coming with 15 mins or less. Add his runs to those tackling stats and it's even more impressive
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how is this thread still going, i concede any doubts over Cane
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@shark said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@Bones Wait a minute, I've got it! I'll swing by in my time-travelling Delorean, pick you up, and take you to a function at Aikmans' Sports Bar on the 1st of this month so you can see! I should have thought of this earlier, what a dumb ass!!!
Sorry, you went to a function at a sports bar in Chch where they gave an actual presentation on Akira's stats?
I'm sorry, that sounds like absolute fucking garbage - what kind of functions are they running down there?
@junior said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@shark said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@Bones Wait a minute, I've got it! I'll swing by in my time-travelling Delorean, pick you up, and take you to a function at Aikmans' Sports Bar on the 1st of this month so you can see! I should have thought of this earlier, what a dumb ass!!!
Sorry, you went to a function at a sports bar in Chch where they gave an actual presentation on Akira's stats?
I'm sorry, that sounds like absolute fucking garbage - what kind of functions are they running down there?
Why on Earth would I pretend this happened.
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@junior said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@shark said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@Bones Wait a minute, I've got it! I'll swing by in my time-travelling Delorean, pick you up, and take you to a function at Aikmans' Sports Bar on the 1st of this month so you can see! I should have thought of this earlier, what a dumb ass!!!
Sorry, you went to a function at a sports bar in Chch where they gave an actual presentation on Akira's stats?
I'm sorry, that sounds like absolute fucking garbage - what kind of functions are they running down there?
Why on Earth would I pretend this happened.
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@antipodean said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@voodoo said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@antipodean said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@voodoo said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@antipodean said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@voodoo said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
To be fair to @shark , who seems to be getting smashed from all angles, his argument as I understood it was that Savea is a better 7 than Cane.
Nothing more, nothing less.
So a day when the AB's sucked and Cane played really well at 7 and Savea was average at 8, doesn't really move the dial either way?
That's the argument of an idiot. Would Savea have played at 7 better than Cane did today?
How the fuck would I know? Did JB advance his creds as a 15 over Dmac today, despite not playing 15? Did JG improve his stocks at 13 over Reiko today whilst playing 12?
We can make a judgement based on the body of their work over their career. Cane today showed exactly the impact people said he would have,
Keep your fucking insults to yourself by the way.
If I see a stupid argument I'll call it stupid.
This is the epitome of arrogance. Nice one mate, happy you've finally topped a list
Don't be a child. Not my fault Cane convincingly proved the point today.
Let me lay it out for you.
The debate is 2 guys playing the same position. The qn is who is the best?
1 guys plays that position today and does really well.
The other guy plays a very different position and is average.
And you claim the debate is over
Its so stupid that its not funny, but it kind of is
But I'm a child
For the record, I'm totally in the Cane camp over Savea at 7. But that's so irrelevant to your pathetic argument here.
@voodoo said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@antipodean said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@voodoo said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@antipodean said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@voodoo said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@antipodean said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@voodoo said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
To be fair to @shark , who seems to be getting smashed from all angles, his argument as I understood it was that Savea is a better 7 than Cane.
Nothing more, nothing less.
So a day when the AB's sucked and Cane played really well at 7 and Savea was average at 8, doesn't really move the dial either way?
That's the argument of an idiot. Would Savea have played at 7 better than Cane did today?
How the fuck would I know? Did JB advance his creds as a 15 over Dmac today, despite not playing 15? Did JG improve his stocks at 13 over Reiko today whilst playing 12?
We can make a judgement based on the body of their work over their career. Cane today showed exactly the impact people said he would have,
Keep your fucking insults to yourself by the way.
If I see a stupid argument I'll call it stupid.
This is the epitome of arrogance. Nice one mate, happy you've finally topped a list
Don't be a child. Not my fault Cane convincingly proved the point today.
Let me lay it out for you.
The debate is 2 guys playing the same position. The qn is who is the best?
1 guys plays that position today and does really well.
The other guy plays a very different position and is average.
And you claim the debate is over
Its so stupid that its not funny, but it kind of is
But I'm a child
For the record, I'm totally in the Cane camp over Savea at 7. But that's so irrelevant to your pathetic argument here.
The problem is, the more arrogant 'look at me' elements of the pro-Cane faction are so busy congratulating themselves they can't see the woods for the trees. You've tried to bring the appropriate balance and reason, and then one of these frothers has set upon you like a zombie to fresh meat.
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@junior said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@shark said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@Bones Wait a minute, I've got it! I'll swing by in my time-travelling Delorean, pick you up, and take you to a function at Aikmans' Sports Bar on the 1st of this month so you can see! I should have thought of this earlier, what a dumb ass!!!
Sorry, you went to a function at a sports bar in Chch where they gave an actual presentation on Akira's stats?
I'm sorry, that sounds like absolute fucking garbage - what kind of functions are they running down there?
Why on Earth would I pretend this happened.
@shark said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@junior said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@shark said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@Bones Wait a minute, I've got it! I'll swing by in my time-travelling Delorean, pick you up, and take you to a function at Aikmans' Sports Bar on the 1st of this month so you can see! I should have thought of this earlier, what a dumb ass!!!
Sorry, you went to a function at a sports bar in Chch where they gave an actual presentation on Akira's stats?
I'm sorry, that sounds like absolute fucking garbage - what kind of functions are they running down there?
Why on Earth would I pretend this happened.
Why on earth don't you just say what the stats are? They're top secret sports bar facts given to you in secret by the CRFU?
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I think Sunday's game kind of cemented that Cane is King here.
I'm less worried about him being captain at this stage as I originally wanted Whitelock but Cane is doing the job well.
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@Hooroo not sure exactly what is going on but Whitelock has looked a shadow of himself recently. Quality like that doesn't go away so it kind of stuck out to me. Especially as I would have gone for him as Cpt as well.
@Paekakboyz said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@Hooroo not sure exactly what is going on but Whitelock has looked a shadow of himself recently. Quality like that doesn't go away so it kind of stuck out to me. Especially as I would have gone for him as Cpt as well.
He was a good waterboy yesterday though
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@Paekakboyz said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@Hooroo not sure exactly what is going on but Whitelock has looked a shadow of himself recently. Quality like that doesn't go away so it kind of stuck out to me. Especially as I would have gone for him as Cpt as well.
He was a good waterboy yesterday though
@Hooroo BB was faster at it last week
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I like how Cane responded to the criticism in this thread by becoming a metre eating try scorer this week to go along with his offensive defence. He’s probably just a unique haircut away from getting the respect of the chief Ardie fluffer.
@Nepia said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
I like how Cane responded to the criticism in this thread by becoming a metre eating try scorer this week to go along with his offensive defence. He’s probably just a unique haircut away from getting the respect of the chief Ardie fluffer.
Indeed, it's almost like he looked in the mirror and realised he's got a good frame for tucking the ball and trampling whoever is in front of him.
Rueben Thorne never managed that.
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are the last 2 weekends Cane's best tests ever?
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I think Sunday's game kind of cemented that Cane is King here.
I'm less worried about him being captain at this stage as I originally wanted Whitelock but Cane is doing the job well.
@Hooroo said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
I think Sunday's game kind of cemented that Cane is King here.
I'm less worried about him being captain at this stage as I originally wanted Whitelock but Cane is doing the job well.
I think Cane's performance on the field has been close to his best at test level in the last two weeks. I think the captaincy jury is still out. Not taking the kick just before half time at test level was a bit of weird and if the match had remained close, I am sure those who were thinking where was the droppie last week, would have been well in their rights to challenge this decision as well. You win by 20, no one really talks about it, but at half time we certainly were talking about it.
Still great game from him regardless
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are the last 2 weekends Cane's best tests ever?
@mariner4life i seem to remember him having some big games in 16/17 and the fern rating him bigtime. might have even walked the polls for the year.
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Best thing about this game for Cane was that it wasn't really one that should have suited him, being so open and erratic. He really showed lots of the stuff that he gets bagged for, being able to link, carry, offload.
Maybe captaincy suits him.
@voodoo said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
Best thing about this game for Cane was that it wasn't really one that should have suited him, being so open and erratic. He really showed lots of the stuff that he gets bagged for, being able to link, carry, offload.
Maybe captaincy suits him.
That and the game plan. He made mention during the press conference that was the reason he was in the wider channels carrying.
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@junior said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@shark said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@Bones Wait a minute, I've got it! I'll swing by in my time-travelling Delorean, pick you up, and take you to a function at Aikmans' Sports Bar on the 1st of this month so you can see! I should have thought of this earlier, what a dumb ass!!!
Sorry, you went to a function at a sports bar in Chch where they gave an actual presentation on Akira's stats?
I'm sorry, that sounds like absolute fucking garbage - what kind of functions are they running down there?
Why on Earth would I pretend this happened.
@shark said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@junior said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@shark said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@Bones Wait a minute, I've got it! I'll swing by in my time-travelling Delorean, pick you up, and take you to a function at Aikmans' Sports Bar on the 1st of this month so you can see! I should have thought of this earlier, what a dumb ass!!!
Sorry, you went to a function at a sports bar in Chch where they gave an actual presentation on Akira's stats?
I'm sorry, that sounds like absolute fucking garbage - what kind of functions are they running down there?
Why on Earth would I pretend this happened.
I dunno, because you're a Cantab with an agenda?
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@shark said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@junior said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@shark said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@Bones Wait a minute, I've got it! I'll swing by in my time-travelling Delorean, pick you up, and take you to a function at Aikmans' Sports Bar on the 1st of this month so you can see! I should have thought of this earlier, what a dumb ass!!!
Sorry, you went to a function at a sports bar in Chch where they gave an actual presentation on Akira's stats?
I'm sorry, that sounds like absolute fucking garbage - what kind of functions are they running down there?
Why on Earth would I pretend this happened.
Why on earth don't you just say what the stats are? They're top secret sports bar facts given to you in secret by the CRFU?
@Bones said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@shark said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@junior said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@shark said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@Bones Wait a minute, I've got it! I'll swing by in my time-travelling Delorean, pick you up, and take you to a function at Aikmans' Sports Bar on the 1st of this month so you can see! I should have thought of this earlier, what a dumb ass!!!
Sorry, you went to a function at a sports bar in Chch where they gave an actual presentation on Akira's stats?
I'm sorry, that sounds like absolute fucking garbage - what kind of functions are they running down there?
Why on Earth would I pretend this happened.
Why on earth don't you just say what the stats are? They're top secret sports bar facts given to you in secret by the CRFU?
Exactly - if they were happy to discuss them in a sports bar in front a crowd of people they're clearly not fussed about any kind of confidentiality
