Dan Carter hanging up his boots ..
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@rotated said in Dan Carter hanging up his boots ..:
@victor-meldrew said in Dan Carter hanging up his boots ..:
@chester-draws said in Dan Carter hanging up his boots ..:
Cruden ran onto the 2011 final with no demons (as did Beaver) and could just play his game.
I'd think Beaver had a huge number of demons to face as he was held pretty much responsible for an awful loss to the Wobbles in Hong Kong (IIRC).
Stepped up to the mark and played the game of his life that day - one of the most clear-headed players on the paddock. No wonder McCaw holds him in such high regard
I was there live and rewatched it four years later and thought it was an unremarkable Beaver performance. He didn't bottle it (yay) but they were outscored 7-3 by an otherwise pedestrian French team.
Obviously not all his fault getting ball from Ellis and given the tense moment, but there are at least 10 other guys on that paddock that defended like Banshees in that second half who deserve the credit for that win more than Beaver for one wobbly penalty and not a whole lot else.
disagree - the biggest difference that Beaver made when he came on was that he calmed things down, took the ball to the line by just running straight and made his tackles. Nerves had played a massive part in that starting 15.. guys like Kaino who'd been massive all tournament looked like utter shit and were headless chickens. Which to be fair was totally understandable - the pressure they were under and the atmosphere leading into that game was off the chart (how good was the walk to the ground from town..)
He didn't need to do anything spectacular, but by coming on and almost not giving a shit it had a massive influence on those around him.@williethewaiter said in Dan Carter hanging up his boots ..:
@rotated said in Dan Carter hanging up his boots ..:
@victor-meldrew said in Dan Carter hanging up his boots ..:
@chester-draws said in Dan Carter hanging up his boots ..:
Cruden ran onto the 2011 final with no demons (as did Beaver) and could just play his game.
I'd think Beaver had a huge number of demons to face as he was held pretty much responsible for an awful loss to the Wobbles in Hong Kong (IIRC).
Stepped up to the mark and played the game of his life that day - one of the most clear-headed players on the paddock. No wonder McCaw holds him in such high regard
I was there live and rewatched it four years later and thought it was an unremarkable Beaver performance. He didn't bottle it (yay) but they were outscored 7-3 by an otherwise pedestrian French team.
Obviously not all his fault getting ball from Ellis and given the tense moment, but there are at least 10 other guys on that paddock that defended like Banshees in that second half who deserve the credit for that win more than Beaver for one wobbly penalty and not a whole lot else.
disagree - the biggest difference that Beaver made when he came on was that he calmed things down, took the ball to the line by just running straight and made his tackles. Nerves had played a massive part in that starting 15.. guys like Kaino who'd been massive all tournament looked like utter shit and were headless chickens. Which to be fair was totally understandable - the pressure they were under and the atmosphere leading into that game was off the chart (how good was the walk to the ground from town..)
He didn't need to do anything spectacular, but by coming on and almost not giving a shit it had a massive influence on those around him.I'm guessing not quite as good as the walk from the ground to town...
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@canefan said in Dan Carter hanging up his boots ..:
@mariner4life said in Dan Carter hanging up his boots ..:
@antipodean said in Dan Carter hanging up his boots ..:
@victor-meldrew said in Dan Carter hanging up his boots ..:
Not saying Beaver won the game on his own, just pointing out he had more than a few demons to conquer and did pretty well overall in the context of that game.
If we'd had a fit DC for that game, we'd have won a lot easier and they'd be no teeth marks on the back of my sofa.
If DC was fit for the final we'd have destroyed France. As it was we should've been clear at halftime but for Piri missing some easy kicks to keep the he scoreboard pressure mounting.
And dagg being a fucking hungus
I wouldn't know, I haven't watched the game since being there in 2011. I'll take your word for it
Neither, watched in a pub, sweated 3kgs out, didn't enjoy a minute of it, never seen it again.
I recall Piri trying to kick a loose ball to someone that ended badly rather than gathering it - did that even happen or is it just a random (not) memory???
@voodoo said in Dan Carter hanging up his boots ..:
@canefan said in Dan Carter hanging up his boots ..:
@mariner4life said in Dan Carter hanging up his boots ..:
@antipodean said in Dan Carter hanging up his boots ..:
@victor-meldrew said in Dan Carter hanging up his boots ..:
Not saying Beaver won the game on his own, just pointing out he had more than a few demons to conquer and did pretty well overall in the context of that game.
If we'd had a fit DC for that game, we'd have won a lot easier and they'd be no teeth marks on the back of my sofa.
If DC was fit for the final we'd have destroyed France. As it was we should've been clear at halftime but for Piri missing some easy kicks to keep the he scoreboard pressure mounting.
And dagg being a fucking hungus
I wouldn't know, I haven't watched the game since being there in 2011. I'll take your word for it
Neither, watched in a pub, sweated 3kgs out, didn't enjoy a minute of it, never seen it again.
I recall Piri trying to kick a loose ball to someone that ended badly rather than gathering it - did that even happen or is it just a random (not) memory???
Immediately after Dagg hungussed. Piri tried to keep the attack going but the two mistakes compounded, leading to their try.
I blame Dagg more.
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@rotated said in Dan Carter hanging up his boots ..:
@victor-meldrew said in Dan Carter hanging up his boots ..:
@chester-draws said in Dan Carter hanging up his boots ..:
Cruden ran onto the 2011 final with no demons (as did Beaver) and could just play his game.
I'd think Beaver had a huge number of demons to face as he was held pretty much responsible for an awful loss to the Wobbles in Hong Kong (IIRC).
Stepped up to the mark and played the game of his life that day - one of the most clear-headed players on the paddock. No wonder McCaw holds him in such high regard
I was there live and rewatched it four years later and thought it was an unremarkable Beaver performance. He didn't bottle it (yay) but they were outscored 7-3 by an otherwise pedestrian French team.
Obviously not all his fault getting ball from Ellis and given the tense moment, but there are at least 10 other guys on that paddock that defended like Banshees in that second half who deserve the credit for that win more than Beaver for one wobbly penalty and not a whole lot else.
disagree - the biggest difference that Beaver made when he came on was that he calmed things down, took the ball to the line by just running straight and made his tackles. Nerves had played a massive part in that starting 15.. guys like Kaino who'd been massive all tournament looked like utter shit and were headless chickens. Which to be fair was totally understandable - the pressure they were under and the atmosphere leading into that game was off the chart (how good was the walk to the ground from town..)
He didn't need to do anything spectacular, but by coming on and almost not giving a shit it had a massive influence on those around him.@williethewaiter said in Dan Carter hanging up his boots ..:
disagree - the biggest difference that Beaver made when he came on was that he calmed things down, took the ball to the line by just running straight and made his tackles. Nerves had played a massive part in that starting 15.. guys like Kaino who'd been massive all tournament looked like utter shit and were headless chickens. Which to be fair was totally understandable - the pressure they were under and the atmosphere leading into that game was off the chart (how good was the walk to the ground from town..)
He didn't need to do anything spectacular, but by coming on and almost not giving a shit it had a massive influence on those around him.They looked fine in the first 25 minutes, the Woodcock try was executed to precision and they were playing a good territory game. Unfortunately Weepu's injury during warm up meant they couldn't convert these.
Whatever "calming influence" he may have had at the end of first half was greatly outweighed by the overwhelming sense around the 60 minute mark (after they didn't strike back immediately after the Dusutoir try) that if we conceded any points there was no real prospect of us being able to reply in kind.
You contrast that with pretty much any ABs team in that era where the feeling was always if you kept it close going into the final 20 you could burgle it.
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@williethewaiter said in Dan Carter hanging up his boots ..:
disagree - the biggest difference that Beaver made when he came on was that he calmed things down, took the ball to the line by just running straight and made his tackles. Nerves had played a massive part in that starting 15.. guys like Kaino who'd been massive all tournament looked like utter shit and were headless chickens. Which to be fair was totally understandable - the pressure they were under and the atmosphere leading into that game was off the chart (how good was the walk to the ground from town..)
He didn't need to do anything spectacular, but by coming on and almost not giving a shit it had a massive influence on those around him.They looked fine in the first 25 minutes, the Woodcock try was executed to precision and they were playing a good territory game. Unfortunately Weepu's injury during warm up meant they couldn't convert these.
Whatever "calming influence" he may have had at the end of first half was greatly outweighed by the overwhelming sense around the 60 minute mark (after they didn't strike back immediately after the Dusutoir try) that if we conceded any points there was no real prospect of us being able to reply in kind.
You contrast that with pretty much any ABs team in that era where the feeling was always if you kept it close going into the final 20 you could burgle it.
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@canefan I thought about that clip after reading your post immediately above.
@taniwharugby said in Dan Carter hanging up his boots ..:
@canefan I thought about that clip after reading your post immediately above.
Still chokes me up even now 🥺
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DC - absolute legend who has all the plaudits / awards to go with being such a great player.
I wouldn't get too hung up about people saying he wasn't as good defensively as Jonny Wilkinson. There's a reason for that. He wasn't. Wilkinson was an extremely hard hitter who put his body on the line in every single tackle, and ultimately ended up paying the price for it.
Great kicker, runner, strategist, playmaker & a superb defender.
@booboo said in Dan Carter hanging up his boots ..:
A memory of the penalty was Kafer saying "Dan Carter will get this. He's just THAT sort of player."
Exactly. Difference between the best and truly elite. Top 2 inches.
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DC - absolute legend who has all the plaudits / awards to go with being such a great player.
I wouldn't get too hung up about people saying he wasn't as good defensively as Jonny Wilkinson. There's a reason for that. He wasn't. Wilkinson was an extremely hard hitter who put his body on the line in every single tackle, and ultimately ended up paying the price for it.
Great kicker, runner, strategist, playmaker & a superb defender.
@booboo said in Dan Carter hanging up his boots ..:
A memory of the penalty was Kafer saying "Dan Carter will get this. He's just THAT sort of player."
Exactly. Difference between the best and truly elite. Top 2 inches.
@majorrage said in Dan Carter hanging up his boots ..:
DC - absolute legend who has all the plaudits / awards to go with being such a great player.
I wouldn't get too hung up about people saying he wasn't as good defensively as Jonny Wilkinson. There's a reason for that. He wasn't. Wilkinson was an extremely hard hitter who put his body on the line in every single tackle, and ultimately ended up paying the price for it.
Great kicker, runner, strategist, playmaker & a superb defender.
@booboo said in Dan Carter hanging up his boots ..:
A memory of the penalty was Kafer saying "Dan Carter will get this. He's just THAT sort of player."
Exactly. Difference between the best and truly elite. Top 2 inches.
Meh. Not upset but ...
He may not have hit as hard Jonny,but he was excellent defensively.
Saying he wasn't as good is just incorrect.
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@majorrage said in Dan Carter hanging up his boots ..:
DC - absolute legend who has all the plaudits / awards to go with being such a great player.
I wouldn't get too hung up about people saying he wasn't as good defensively as Jonny Wilkinson. There's a reason for that. He wasn't. Wilkinson was an extremely hard hitter who put his body on the line in every single tackle, and ultimately ended up paying the price for it.
Great kicker, runner, strategist, playmaker & a superb defender.
@booboo said in Dan Carter hanging up his boots ..:
A memory of the penalty was Kafer saying "Dan Carter will get this. He's just THAT sort of player."
Exactly. Difference between the best and truly elite. Top 2 inches.
Meh. Not upset but ...
He may not have hit as hard Jonny,but he was excellent defensively.
Saying he wasn't as good is just incorrect.
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Easily the most complete and best first five-eighth I've had the privilege to witness and that in no way should diminish the value other players brought their teams.
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@booboo It's not an insult.
Carter was a genuine rugby freak, but to say he was the best ever or at least on par/better at every single facet of his game as the other great first five of his era is a bit OTT.
@majorrage said in Dan Carter hanging up his boots ..:
@booboo It's not an insult.
Carter was a genuine rugby freak, but to say he was the best ever or at least on par/better at every single facet of his game as the other great first five of his era is a bit OTT.
The point is - just because you are a bigger hitter doesn't automatically make you a better defender.
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@booboo It's not an insult.
Carter was a genuine rugby freak, but to say he was the best ever or at least on par/better at every single facet of his game as the other great first five of his era is a bit OTT.
@majorrage said in Dan Carter hanging up his boots ..:
@booboo It's not an insult.
Carter was a genuine rugby freak, but to say he was the best ever or at least on par/better at every single facet of his game as the other great first five of his era is a bit OTT.
I don't think we're really arguing, but I am of the opinion h was farking good on D. So IMO it's hard to argue Jonny was better because he was "better" on D because in my opinion DC was just as good.
I have a soft spot for Wilkinson because of the chip and chase try v us in 2002, but ... He's just not quite DC.
And DC was as good (if not better) on D.
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@majorrage said in Dan Carter hanging up his boots ..:
@booboo It's not an insult.
Carter was a genuine rugby freak, but to say he was the best ever or at least on par/better at every single facet of his game as the other great first five of his era is a bit OTT.
The point is - just because you are a bigger hitter doesn't automatically make you a better defender.
@kiwimurph said in Dan Carter hanging up his boots ..:
The point is - just because you are a bigger hitter doesn't automatically make you a better defender.
Not arguing that.
Wilkinson is a legendary defender though, it's often mentioned about him. Absolutely nothing wrong with DC defence, it was superb.
@booboo said in Dan Carter hanging up his boots ..:
@majorrage said in Dan Carter hanging up his boots ..:
@booboo It's not an insult.
Carter was a genuine rugby freak, but to say he was the best ever or at least on par/better at every single facet of his game as the other great first five of his era is a bit OTT.
I don't think we're really arguing, but I am of the opinion h was farking good on D. So IMO it's hard to argue Jonny was better because he was "better" on D because in my opinion DC was just as good.
I have a soft spot for Wilkinson because of the chip and chase try v us in 2002, but ... He's just not quite DC.
And DC was as good (if not better) on D.
Just to be clear I'm not arguing for JW as the better player. DC the better player.
As a side note though, I do think saint Jonny was hugely underrated in NZ for a long time. It was only really when he did the 2007 RWC run that I think people started to believe that the ongoing NH plaudits for him actually had some real substance.
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I hate predictive text
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@kiwimurph said in Dan Carter hanging up his boots ..:
The point is - just because you are a bigger hitter doesn't automatically make you a better defender.
Not arguing that.
Wilkinson is a legendary defender though, it's often mentioned about him. Absolutely nothing wrong with DC defence, it was superb.
@booboo said in Dan Carter hanging up his boots ..:
@majorrage said in Dan Carter hanging up his boots ..:
@booboo It's not an insult.
Carter was a genuine rugby freak, but to say he was the best ever or at least on par/better at every single facet of his game as the other great first five of his era is a bit OTT.
I don't think we're really arguing, but I am of the opinion h was farking good on D. So IMO it's hard to argue Jonny was better because he was "better" on D because in my opinion DC was just as good.
I have a soft spot for Wilkinson because of the chip and chase try v us in 2002, but ... He's just not quite DC.
And DC was as good (if not better) on D.
Just to be clear I'm not arguing for JW as the better player. DC the better player.
As a side note though, I do think saint Jonny was hugely underrated in NZ for a long time. It was only really when he did the 2007 RWC run that I think people started to believe that the ongoing NH plaudits for him actually had some real substance.
@majorrage I always thought he was a gun held back by the style he was forced to play for England. Thought his running and passing game was always underrated.
No DC though.
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Porta was insanely gifted-or maybe he stood out to me more because I can't remember any other sign of flair in his Argies team. Some big hairy men though.
The battering ram and catapult team England method suited JW but it still seems to me England had a very specific way of playing that did not really show his versatility-while Carter could play with all sorts of tactics, including no tactics, and just running with the thing. Internationally, I seldom saw JW with that.
I also wonder if JW played for NZ if they would have selected him at 10 or at 12. -
Son number 4 arrives safely for Dan and Honor Carter:
https://twitter.com/DanCarter/status/1404006192754696192?s=19
