All Blacks vs Fiji
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@machpants its NZR that need to take note though, and evidence to date, Robinson is out of his depth and touch with how to deal with things
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@machpants its NZR that need to take note though, and evidence to date, Robinson is out of his depth and touch with how to deal with things
Yeah, I know. It's probably about time to insult our partners, or randomly invent a new comp with no authority then.
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It's good to see the press hoeing into Foster & Co's Let's Get Physical (honest, it's a priority) Coaching Clown Circus. Anything that will help see him to the door
@machpants said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
It's good to see the press hoeing into Foster & Co's Let's Get Physical (honest, it's a priority) Coaching Clown Circus. Anything that will help see him to the door
I thought Fiji were pretty good, all pro players, etc.
I'm also not getting into a "bag Foster" contest but he did just break a couple of new records for us didn't he? Both lowest score against them, and most conceded. Records falling everywhere since he joined the team. Harsh I know but facts are facts (mostly).
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@machpants its NZR that need to take note though, and evidence to date, Robinson is out of his depth and touch with how to deal with things
Yeah, I know. It's probably about time to insult our partners, or randomly invent a new comp with no authority then.
@machpants said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@machpants its NZR that need to take note though, and evidence to date, Robinson is out of his depth and touch with how to deal with things
Yeah, I know. It's probably about time to insult our partners, or randomly invent a new comp with no authority then.
Haha. I thought @taniwharugby had stuffed up the spelling of Robertson when he accidentally typed Robinson instead of Foster
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@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@nta Problem is we aren't seeing any improvement in certain areas but instead history repeating itself every season (basically an extension of the Foster-led Chiefs). In contrast, you can see Rennie's influence on the Wobs. The harder-edged approach to forward play against the French (basically an extension of the niggly, hard-nosed back-to-back champion Chiefs side).
It would be interesting if someone with more search skills than me, ie not lazy, dug up old Chiefs threads from the Foster era. My memory tells me the complaints we are hearing now are pretty much the same complaints we were hearing then.
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@nta Problem is we aren't seeing any improvement in certain areas but instead history repeating itself every season (basically an extension of the Foster-led Chiefs). In contrast, you can see Rennie's influence on the Wobs. The harder-edged approach to forward play against the French (basically an extension of the niggly, hard-nosed back-to-back champion Chiefs side).
It would be interesting if someone with more search skills than me, ie not lazy, dug up old Chiefs threads from the Foster era. My memory tells me the complaints we are hearing now are pretty much the same complaints we were hearing then.
I'm not digging that up because I'm not a Chiefs fan, but yes, and why many of us AB fans don't want Foster there.
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@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@nta Problem is we aren't seeing any improvement in certain areas but instead history repeating itself every season (basically an extension of the Foster-led Chiefs). In contrast, you can see Rennie's influence on the Wobs. The harder-edged approach to forward play against the French (basically an extension of the niggly, hard-nosed back-to-back champion Chiefs side).
And yes a lot of that could be attributed to the coach. I know there is a lot of angst around the perceived nepotism Foster's appointment generates.
But how much do you attribute to the players? I'm sure they're all out there trying their best, but maybe it is just that the group has limits and no amount of coaching will address it because they simply haven't gone through enough pain in losing. These guys following your all-timers have been playing in an environment where they got an artificial leg-up from the mere presence of those individuals, and while you're winning games against Australia by 40-blot and recovering enough to trounce a fired-up Fiji, that is unlikely to change.
@nta said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@nta Problem is we aren't seeing any improvement in certain areas but instead history repeating itself every season (basically an extension of the Foster-led Chiefs). In contrast, you can see Rennie's influence on the Wobs. The harder-edged approach to forward play against the French (basically an extension of the niggly, hard-nosed back-to-back champion Chiefs side).
And yes a lot of that could be attributed to the coach. I know there is a lot of angst around the perceived nepotism Foster's appointment generates.
But how much do you attribute to the players? I'm sure they're all out there trying their best, but maybe it is just that the group has limits and no amount of coaching will address it because they simply haven't gone through enough pain in losing. These guys following your all-timers have been playing in an environment where they got an artificial leg-up from the mere presence of those individuals, and while you're winning games against Australia by 40-blot and recovering enough to trounce a fired-up Fiji, that is unlikely to change.
Kind of true.
I think that the main thing we are griping about is that Foster got the job by claiming that he knew how to fix our problem of being out-muscled and taken out when other teams fronted physically and made few mistakes on ball handing or tactics.
We just aren't seeing any evidence that he is fixing that. Yes, it partly comes down to personnel but a lot is coaching. Why are we seeing loose forwards spread across the field instead of hunting as a pack? Why aren't our front five creating walls that stop momentum? Why do we have a gameplan that has multiple playmakers and few finishers? -
@machpants said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
It's good to see the press hoeing into Foster & Co's Let's Get Physical (honest, it's a priority) Coaching Clown Circus. Anything that will help see him to the door
I thought Fiji were pretty good, all pro players, etc.
I'm also not getting into a "bag Foster" contest but he did just break a couple of new records for us didn't he? Both lowest score against them, and most conceded. Records falling everywhere since he joined the team. Harsh I know but facts are facts (mostly).
@snowy said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@machpants said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
It's good to see the press hoeing into Foster & Co's Let's Get Physical (honest, it's a priority) Coaching Clown Circus. Anything that will help see him to the door
I thought Fiji were pretty good, all pro players, etc.
I'm also not getting into a "bag Foster" contest but he did just break a couple of new records for us didn't he? Both lowest score against them, and most conceded. Records falling everywhere since he joined the team. Harsh I know but facts are facts (mostly).
The anoying thing is he talks about new systems, and physicality and then the teams don't deliver - and he gives platitudes around 'what a great test' rather than 'we really need to improve a lot, it was not acceptable'
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@snowy said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@machpants said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
It's good to see the press hoeing into Foster & Co's Let's Get Physical (honest, it's a priority) Coaching Clown Circus. Anything that will help see him to the door
I thought Fiji were pretty good, all pro players, etc.
I'm also not getting into a "bag Foster" contest but he did just break a couple of new records for us didn't he? Both lowest score against them, and most conceded. Records falling everywhere since he joined the team. Harsh I know but facts are facts (mostly).
The anoying thing is he talks about new systems, and physicality and then the teams don't deliver - and he gives platitudes around 'what a great test' rather than 'we really need to improve a lot, it was not acceptable'
The more I read about the pros and cons of George Bridge in this thread the more I wonder if he is better at 12 than as outside back. Scandalous. I know.
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@snowy said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@machpants said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
It's good to see the press hoeing into Foster & Co's Let's Get Physical (honest, it's a priority) Coaching Clown Circus. Anything that will help see him to the door
I thought Fiji were pretty good, all pro players, etc.
I'm also not getting into a "bag Foster" contest but he did just break a couple of new records for us didn't he? Both lowest score against them, and most conceded. Records falling everywhere since he joined the team. Harsh I know but facts are facts (mostly).
The anoying thing is he talks about new systems, and physicality and then the teams don't deliver - and he gives platitudes around 'what a great test' rather than 'we really need to improve a lot, it was not acceptable'
@machpants said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@snowy said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@machpants said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
It's good to see the press hoeing into Foster & Co's Let's Get Physical (honest, it's a priority) Coaching Clown Circus. Anything that will help see him to the door
I thought Fiji were pretty good, all pro players, etc.
I'm also not getting into a "bag Foster" contest but he did just break a couple of new records for us didn't he? Both lowest score against them, and most conceded. Records falling everywhere since he joined the team. Harsh I know but facts are facts (mostly).
The anoying thing is he talks about new systems, and physicality and then the teams don't deliver - and he gives platitudes around 'what a great test' rather than 'we really need to improve a lot, it was not acceptable'
That is what pisses me off too. Dopey grin when we were shit, and the same shit as our last fails. Just wear it, we weren't very good.
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Dont think this has been posted, but this is pretty cool
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Dont think this has been posted, but this is pretty cool
We are Groot
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@nzzp I don't think Bridge is out of form, he is doing what he has always done. He has never been one to beat multiple defenders.
Last night he was a key component to the first try with a snappy midfield pass, and the try he scored he initiated the forward momentum with a good run from a lineout.
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@nzzp I don't think Bridge is out of form, he is doing what he has always done. He has never been one to beat multiple defenders.
Last night he was a key component to the first try with a snappy midfield pass, and the try he scored he initiated the forward momentum with a good run from a lineout.
I really disagree with this fallacy that you and Marshall insist on. He was a key component in much the same way as pretty much any other back in the squad could have been if playing the same role. He also was a key component on a couple of other occasions where he was playing the same role but shat his daks when he saw a defender running at him and died with the ball.
He hit the line and passed before he got tackled, this isn't isn't something unique to Bridge's skill set. At least Rieko's ones that didn't pan out he actually got the ball away and didn't just turn turtle.
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@cgrant said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
He was physically dominated by the Blues locks during the SRTT final
Do you mean PPP? I don't rate him and he was poor against the Blues in the final. Vaai plays for the Chiefs.
@tim said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@cgrant said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
He was physically dominated by the Blues locks during the SRTT final
Do you mean PPP? I don't rate him and he was poor against the Blues in the final. Vaai plays for the Chiefs.
Oops, my mistake. I meant the Crusaders during the SRA final.
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@nta said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
TBH some of you guys are forgetting just how terrible Tonga were - a team of brickies and amateurs getting called up out of dire necessity.
Further to this: a lot of you are also forgetting just how tight-knit a unit the ABs were after 2007 under Graham Henry, and the number of all-time greats that were present, and nearly-greats whose reputations were enhanced just by being part of an absolutely uncompromising leadership group on- and off-field.
In a way, you're victims of your own success, and it is nothing to do with the win/loss ratio, but the style in which they played.
I think you need to be a bit more realistic about your expectations, accept that some of these guys aren't legends, and accept you'll still win a lot more than you lose.
@nta What an astute comment. Would only NZ rugby fans listen. The 2004-15 era was pretty special in terms of talent, including a coach of significant mana in Graham Henry. Great eras don’t last forever. And many of the Big Names have moved on. There’ll be another golden era, undoubtedly. But you can’t force it. And even with a handful of very talented (if ageing) individuals like Coles, Retallick, Whitelock, Aaron Smith and BB, I doubt it will come under this coaching panel, who look, sound and act like a stopgap to me.
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When does the citing window close? 24 hours from full time?
Obviously I think its better for the game next week if Botia plays, but I imagine if it was an AB that had done that...
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
When does the citing window close? 24 hours from full time?
Obviously I think its better for the game next week if Botia plays, but I imagine if it was an AB that had done that...
Soc med meltdown
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@chris said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@chris said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@yeetyaah said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
We just lack physicality. Don't think we took the threat serious enough and took the piss with the starting lineup a bit.
In saying that we should still be playing better than this shit.we’re is a game plan or progression from last year .soft forward effort let’s hope COVID keeps SA out of the RC .
Yeah. Unbeatable.
No the Lions,England a full strength French team can beat SA we could under different coaches.
But not playing like we have last year and that passive shit forward performance we put out against Fiji.
Yes Sack the idiot coaches.I can sort of accept a 'passive' performance because that is an attitude thing and players aren't always going to play that way. In an ideal world players would be up for every game but that is not humanly possible.
But what disturbs me is the game plan. It looks as though they have decided the way to beat modern defences is to play helter skelter from the get go. Our players are not good enough to consistently win that way under pressure. Surely the last few years have shown us that.
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@chris said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@chris said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@yeetyaah said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
We just lack physicality. Don't think we took the threat serious enough and took the piss with the starting lineup a bit.
In saying that we should still be playing better than this shit.we’re is a game plan or progression from last year .soft forward effort let’s hope COVID keeps SA out of the RC .
Yeah. Unbeatable.
No the Lions,England a full strength French team can beat SA we could under different coaches.
But not playing like we have last year and that passive shit forward performance we put out against Fiji.
Yes Sack the idiot coaches.I can sort of accept a 'passive' performance because that is an attitude thing and players aren't always going to play that way. In an ideal world players would be up for every game but that is not humanly possible.
Yet another thing they said they were trying to fix.
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@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@nta Problem is we aren't seeing any improvement in certain areas but instead history repeating itself every season (basically an extension of the Foster-led Chiefs). In contrast, you can see Rennie's influence on the Wobs. The harder-edged approach to forward play against the French (basically an extension of the niggly, hard-nosed back-to-back champion Chiefs side).
And yes a lot of that could be attributed to the coach. I know there is a lot of angst around the perceived nepotism Foster's appointment generates.
But how much do you attribute to the players? I'm sure they're all out there trying their best, but maybe it is just that the group has limits and no amount of coaching will address it because they simply haven't gone through enough pain in losing. These guys following your all-timers have been playing in an environment where they got an artificial leg-up from the mere presence of those individuals, and while you're winning games against Australia by 40-blot and recovering enough to trounce a fired-up Fiji, that is unlikely to change.
@nta said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@nta Problem is we aren't seeing any improvement in certain areas but instead history repeating itself every season (basically an extension of the Foster-led Chiefs). In contrast, you can see Rennie's influence on the Wobs. The harder-edged approach to forward play against the French (basically an extension of the niggly, hard-nosed back-to-back champion Chiefs side).
And yes a lot of that could be attributed to the coach. I know there is a lot of angst around the perceived nepotism Foster's appointment generates.
But how much do you attribute to the players? I'm sure they're all out there trying their best, but maybe it is just that the group has limits and no amount of coaching will address it because they simply haven't gone through enough pain in losing. These guys following your all-timers have been playing in an environment where they got an artificial leg-up from the mere presence of those individuals, and while you're winning games against Australia by 40-blot and recovering enough to trounce a fired-up Fiji, that is unlikely to change.
What you say makes sense but team selections go back to the coaching team.
JB at fullback is twice or thrice as good as JB at wing (and looks far faster).
The AB coaches refuse to play their best 6s (in their right positions) and send the next best 7 overseas.
They don't choose the best remaining props when the regulars are injured.
They play their C team against Fiji A/B(?) and their B team against Tonga C.
They have two team moves a game and then let everything get ragged.
They haven't developed enough depth and combinations (especially combinations, especially midfield, Ennor at centre for godsakes? One of the toughest positions for a young guy who makes Kahui look indestructible. And really he's a wing).
The AB coaching team enjoy losing because they only know how to fix things for the second (or third) game.
Recently Argentina is better, Ireland is stronger, Fiji have been coached to be more disciplined with less lapses and brain farts (Cotter for ABs forward coach).
While the ABs might be weaker, they still have good players and the team should be stronger than its parts. We are struggling to put away teams who meet each other in quarantine and who play across Europe while NZ-based players should know each other down to their shoelaces by now. -
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@nzzp I don't think Bridge is out of form, he is doing what he has always done. He has never been one to beat multiple defenders.
Last night he was a key component to the first try with a snappy midfield pass, and the try he scored he initiated the forward momentum with a good run from a lineout.
I really disagree with this fallacy that you and Marshall insist on. He was a key component in much the same way as pretty much any other back in the squad could have been if playing the same role. He also was a key component on a couple of other occasions where he was playing the same role but shat his daks when he saw a defender running at him and died with the ball.
He hit the line and passed before he got tackled, this isn't isn't something unique to Bridge's skill set. At least Rieko's ones that didn't pan out he actually got the ball away and didn't just turn turtle.
@bones said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@nzzp I don't think Bridge is out of form, he is doing what he has always done. He has never been one to beat multiple defenders.
Last night he was a key component to the first try with a snappy midfield pass, and the try he scored he initiated the forward momentum with a good run from a lineout.
I really disagree with this fallacy that you and Marshall insist on. He was a key component in much the same way as pretty much any other back in the squad could have been if playing the same role. He also was a key component on a couple of other occasions where he was playing the same role but shat his daks when he saw a defender running at him and died with the ball.
He hit the line and passed before he got tackled, this isn't isn't something unique to Bridge's skill set. At least Rieko's ones that didn't pan out he actually got the ball away and didn't just turn turtle.
Don't disagree with you, I know other backs could have made the same contribution. Don't get me wrong, I am in no way saying I am happy he is our wing.
That post was more a response to the claim Bridge is out of form. I think he is playing to the standard he has been playing for the Crusaders since he learnt how to catch a high ball (remember how bad he was against the BILs?).
