Foster, Robertson, Rennie etc
-
@canes4life said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
The thing is, if we win the World Cup he will most likely be reinstated again. Ffs.
He'd retire job done IMO.
I don't see that bring Razor in now increases our RWC chances that much to be fair.
It isn't as if Foster and co are ignoring players that should be there and any poor periods have been attributed by the players themselves as down to not following instructions.
My belief is that, at present, our problems are mainly down to getting experience and test level combos established. Changing things up now won't help that.
The game itself is also n a funny place laws wise and we have to adapt ourselves to that. Just as SA found that trying to play a style that didn't suit them didn't work, the ABs trying to play a power game won't work either.@crucial said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
@canes4life said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
The thing is, if we win the World Cup he will most likely be reinstated again. Ffs.
He'd retire job done IMO.
I think that's unlikely. It's an incredible gig, pays well, Foster would be still be young enough and he hasn't achieved that much as a coach so staying on would be extremely appealing.
I also think there's an arrogance that goes along with winning a world cup where you think you and you alone possess the magic formula. I think Hansen had this and Foster appears to be slowly transforming into FGH (certainly physically, if not necessarily in terms of personality yet).
And let's not get into boomers reluctance to relinquish positions of power within society in general.
I hope he is the right choice, and he continues to make strides. I think we're looking better than last year but these next few tests will be a better gauge. Especially if we're missing a couple of key guys.
I would still advocate for Robertson though from 2024 onwards. Regardless of the result at the world cup, and we certainly shouldn't rely on Foster stepping down voluntarily.
-
@taniwharugby said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
@african-monkey not sure about 'deserves' a chance, but by the same token, I think there have been alot of disruptions to his time that it would be pretty harsh to can him before he has had a good chance to really 'own' things
It’s interesting, when Henry was reappointed after 2007, there was language to the effect that he “deserves a chance to redeem himself”.
Yes there were plenty of doubters and detractors, but many that thought he didn’t deserve anything given what happened at the RWC.
Then there was talk of the players and why they thought of Ted and that was a key factor in the reappointment. Culture meant something etc
I’m pleased for some of the newer less experienced players that are starting to show something because a change in coach can be disruptive and there are always casualties in a squad. For young players that are trying to settle and find their feet at test level a bit stability is probably a good thing.
Congratulations Fozzie.
@act-crusader congrats to the man. But his extension gives the rest of us confidence.
His ABs sorta remind me of the Hart era team. So much talent that they’re going to win the majority of games. But they don’t seem to have a defined game plan and he doesn’t have the magical eye required to identify players who will thrive at test level or the knack of selecting lesser players with the hot hand.
So instead of being basically invincible short of coming up against all world teams turning in career best performances, you’re at risk of getting turned over by good teams.
[this post brought to you by that snake’s not poisonousTM]
-
The thing is, if we win the World Cup he will most likely be reinstated again. Ffs.
@canes4life said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
The thing is, if we win the World Cup he will most likely be reinstated again. Ffs.
Its not just Foster its the coaching team he has as well. And if his team wins the RWC maybe he should be reappointed if he wants to carry on
Although I would eb keen to see what Robertson could do if AB coach. But he would likley want different assistants too so it would mean a big change and dismissals for an AB winning team
-
If he wins the next wc he will be a loved hero ( like beaver )
If he loses he may consider relocating to another country
No fucken pressure or anything
-
@taniwharugby said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
@african-monkey not sure about 'deserves' a chance, but by the same token, I think there have been alot of disruptions to his time that it would be pretty harsh to can him before he has had a good chance to really 'own' things
It’s interesting, when Henry was reappointed after 2007, there was language to the effect that he “deserves a chance to redeem himself”.
Yes there were plenty of doubters and detractors, but many that thought he didn’t deserve anything given what happened at the RWC.
Then there was talk of the players and why they thought of Ted and that was a key factor in the reappointment. Culture meant something etc
I’m pleased for some of the newer less experienced players that are starting to show something because a change in coach can be disruptive and there are always casualties in a squad. For young players that are trying to settle and find their feet at test level a bit stability is probably a good thing.
Congratulations Fozzie.
@act-crusader said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
It’s interesting, when Henry was reappointed after 2007, there was language to the effect that he “deserves a chance to redeem himself”.
He earned that by dominating world rugby for 4 years, crushing strong teams like France, England, etc, and building incredible depth in the squad. We missed that world cup by the alignment of a bunch of paper thin margins; injuries, reffing, lack of mental coaching, and a bit of arrogance.
His record spoke for itself. Fozzie's does not.
That said, I hope we have a whole lot of success under Foster, but I'm not expecting it. I expect marginal selections, poor game plans, and a lack of physicality. I hope to god I'm proved wrong, but we're seeing all the same characteristics we've seen before.
-
@taniwharugby said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
@african-monkey not sure about 'deserves' a chance, but by the same token, I think there have been alot of disruptions to his time that it would be pretty harsh to can him before he has had a good chance to really 'own' things
It’s interesting, when Henry was reappointed after 2007, there was language to the effect that he “deserves a chance to redeem himself”.
Yes there were plenty of doubters and detractors, but many that thought he didn’t deserve anything given what happened at the RWC.
Then there was talk of the players and why they thought of Ted and that was a key factor in the reappointment. Culture meant something etc
I’m pleased for some of the newer less experienced players that are starting to show something because a change in coach can be disruptive and there are always casualties in a squad. For young players that are trying to settle and find their feet at test level a bit stability is probably a good thing.
Congratulations Fozzie.
@act-crusader said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
I’m pleased for some of the newer less experienced players that are starting to show something because a change in coach can be disruptive and there are always casualties in a squad. For young players that are trying to settle and find their feet at test level a bit stability is probably a good thing.
That thinking is why Foster stayed Chiefs coach for five years longer than he should.
-
@act-crusader said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
It’s interesting, when Henry was reappointed after 2007, there was language to the effect that he “deserves a chance to redeem himself”.
He earned that by dominating world rugby for 4 years, crushing strong teams like France, England, etc, and building incredible depth in the squad. We missed that world cup by the alignment of a bunch of paper thin margins; injuries, reffing, lack of mental coaching, and a bit of arrogance.
His record spoke for itself. Fozzie's does not.
That said, I hope we have a whole lot of success under Foster, but I'm not expecting it. I expect marginal selections, poor game plans, and a lack of physicality. I hope to god I'm proved wrong, but we're seeing all the same characteristics we've seen before.
@nzzp said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
@act-crusader said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
It’s interesting, when Henry was reappointed after 2007, there was language to the effect that he “deserves a chance to redeem himself”.
He earned that by dominating world rugby for 4 years, crushing strong teams like France, England, etc, and building incredible depth in the squad. We missed that world cup by the alignment of a bunch of paper thin margins; injuries, reffing, lack of mental coaching, and a bit of arrogance.
His record spoke for itself. Fozzie's does not.
That said, I hope we have a whole lot of success under Foster, but I'm not expecting it. I expect marginal selections, poor game plans, and a lack of physicality. I hope to god I'm proved wrong, but we're seeing all the same characteristics we've seen before.
Agree with this 100%
-
There's no way they could can Foster now, it was appointing him in the first place that was utterly ridiculous. And with our first ever loss to a weak Argentina the damage is done and he's permanently in the history books now. Fuck knows where he will take this team, but one things for sure, consistency will not be a feature.
@no-quarter said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
There's no way they could can Foster now, it was appointing him in the first place that was utterly ridiculous. And with our first ever loss to a weak Argentina the damage is done and he's permanently in the history books now. Fuck knows where he will take this team, but one things for sure, consistency will not be a feature.
This also sums up my feelings about the whole thing. NZR have painted themselves into a corner because they fucked up by giving him the job in the first place.
If changing coach is so disruptive, why did they only sign him for 2 years at the start?
If last years results weren’t bad enough to get someone else in, how low did they set the performance bar?Now on the eve of an actual test of the team ie. someone other than the rebuilding Wallabies. They have jumped the gun and re-appointed him.
Where the hell does it leave us if we get done by the Boks and one or two of the NH teams?IMO it is yet another example of the arrogance NZR has started to show since 2017 and especially since Robinson came in, where they just assume everything will happen the way they want it to and they can claim they got it right. Unfortunately like every other decision they have made
recently there is a good chance it will all turn to shit quickly. -
@no-quarter said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
There's no way they could can Foster now, it was appointing him in the first place that was utterly ridiculous. And with our first ever loss to a weak Argentina the damage is done and he's permanently in the history books now. Fuck knows where he will take this team, but one things for sure, consistency will not be a feature.
This also sums up my feelings about the whole thing. NZR have painted themselves into a corner because they fucked up by giving him the job in the first place.
If changing coach is so disruptive, why did they only sign him for 2 years at the start?
If last years results weren’t bad enough to get someone else in, how low did they set the performance bar?Now on the eve of an actual test of the team ie. someone other than the rebuilding Wallabies. They have jumped the gun and re-appointed him.
Where the hell does it leave us if we get done by the Boks and one or two of the NH teams?IMO it is yet another example of the arrogance NZR has started to show since 2017 and especially since Robinson came in, where they just assume everything will happen the way they want it to and they can claim they got it right. Unfortunately like every other decision they have made
recently there is a good chance it will all turn to shit quickly.@pukunui said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
@no-quarter said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
There's no way they could can Foster now, it was appointing him in the first place that was utterly ridiculous. And with our first ever loss to a weak Argentina the damage is done and he's permanently in the history books now. Fuck knows where he will take this team, but one things for sure, consistency will not be a feature.
This also sums up my feelings about the whole thing. NZR have painted themselves into a corner because they fucked up by giving him the job in the first place.
If changing coach is so disruptive, why did they only sign him for 2 years at the start?
If last years results weren’t bad enough to get someone else in, how low did they set the performance bar?Now on the eve of an actual test of the team ie. someone other than the rebuilding Wallabies. They have jumped the gun and re-appointed him.
Where the hell does it leave us if we get done by the Boks and one or two of the NH teams?IMO it is yet another example of the arrogance NZR has started to show since 2017 and especially since Robinson came in, where they just assume everything will happen the way they want it to and they can claim they got it right. Unfortunately like every other decision they have made
recently there is a good chance it will all turn to shit quickly.Yep, the NZR are creating an awesome resume of turning everything they do to shit
-
Well this news was as pleasant as a kick to the scrotum. Ridiculous that they made this decision now and not at the end of the season. How can you logically sack a guy whose team just put 50 on Australia?
Just with regard to player input, unless they absolutely hate the coach's guts are they likely to express their real views? I'm sure any process is supposed to be confidential but you'd be wary of giving it both barrels if there was a good chance the coach would be reappointed.
-
@act-crusader said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
It’s interesting, when Henry was reappointed after 2007, there was language to the effect that he “deserves a chance to redeem himself”.
He earned that by dominating world rugby for 4 years, crushing strong teams like France, England, etc, and building incredible depth in the squad. We missed that world cup by the alignment of a bunch of paper thin margins; injuries, reffing, lack of mental coaching, and a bit of arrogance.
His record spoke for itself. Fozzie's does not.
That said, I hope we have a whole lot of success under Foster, but I'm not expecting it. I expect marginal selections, poor game plans, and a lack of physicality. I hope to god I'm proved wrong, but we're seeing all the same characteristics we've seen before.
@nzzp said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
@act-crusader said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
It’s interesting, when Henry was reappointed after 2007, there was language to the effect that he “deserves a chance to redeem himself”.
He earned that by dominating world rugby for 4 years, crushing strong teams like France, England, etc, and building incredible depth in the squad. We missed that world cup by the alignment of a bunch of paper thin margins; injuries, reffing, lack of mental coaching, and a bit of arrogance.
His record spoke for itself. Fozzie's does not.
That said, I hope we have a whole lot of success under Foster, but I'm not expecting it. I expect marginal selections, poor game plans, and a lack of physicality. I hope to god I'm proved wrong, but we're seeing all the same characteristics we've seen before.
Lost 3 out of 4 in South Africa (Mitchell had won there in 02 and 03), that last minute win in Dunners against the Boks, barely scraped over the line against the Wallabies in 06 (both matches), the 1 point win against Wales - there were plenty of scratchy performances and this is during a time when we probably had more talent (albeit players on the rise too).
I certainly supported the reappointment of Henry but there were shaky performances, lots of rotation and selection question marks in that first 4 years. Which from my perspective is perfectly reasonable.
-
Well this news was as pleasant as a kick to the scrotum. Ridiculous that they made this decision now and not at the end of the season. How can you logically sack a guy whose team just put 50 on Australia?
Just with regard to player input, unless they absolutely hate the coach's guts are they likely to express their real views? I'm sure any process is supposed to be confidential but you'd be wary of giving it both barrels if there was a good chance the coach would be reappointed.
@rancid-schnitzel works both ways though, there are plenty of players Fozzie NEEDS, so if they came out swinging, NZR 'should' listen because if they felt they couldnt work with him, it jeopardises their future in Black, not form speaking out, but looking at off-shore options
The Barretts (mostly BB) Whitelock, Retallick, Ardie, Cane, Smith, ALB, Rieko, Mounga, Coles are all key to any side Fozzie is gonna pick and the near future of the team, if half them came out and said he's a dick, send him, I expect NZR would have no choice but to take it seriously.
Because you can garrantee the leadership group speak about such things, so a 'coup' of sorts is highly likely if they thought he was shit.
I have already said it was a shit decision to re-appoint now, while several games are ahead, and with the experience not going too, high possibility we lose more than 1.
-
@rancid-schnitzel works both ways though, there are plenty of players Fozzie NEEDS, so if they came out swinging, NZR 'should' listen because if they felt they couldnt work with him, it jeopardises their future in Black, not form speaking out, but looking at off-shore options
The Barretts (mostly BB) Whitelock, Retallick, Ardie, Cane, Smith, ALB, Rieko, Mounga, Coles are all key to any side Fozzie is gonna pick and the near future of the team, if half them came out and said he's a dick, send him, I expect NZR would have no choice but to take it seriously.
Because you can garrantee the leadership group speak about such things, so a 'coup' of sorts is highly likely if they thought he was shit.
I have already said it was a shit decision to re-appoint now, while several games are ahead, and with the experience not going too, high possibility we lose more than 1.
@taniwharugby said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
@rancid-schnitzel works both ways though, there are plenty of players Fozzie NEEDS, so if they came out swinging, NZR 'should' listen because if they felt they couldnt work with him, it jeopardises their future in Black, not form speaking out, but looking at off-shore options
The Barretts (mostly BB) Whitelock, Retallick, Ardie, Cane, Smith, ALB, Rieko, Mounga, Coles are all key to any side Fozzie is gonna pick and the near future of the team, if half them came out and said he's a dick, send him, I expect NZR would have no choice but to take it seriously.
Because you can garrantee the leadership group speak about such things, so a 'coup' of sorts is highly likely if they thought he was shit.
I have already said it was a shit decision to re-appoint now, while several games are ahead, and with the experience not going too, high possibility we lose more than 1.
Yeah I just feel if they don't hate the guy then it's unlikely they'll slander him. The leadership group must also be very close to him after all these years. All the players you mentioned will have probably developed a fairly strong friendship with him. Takes a lot to throw that under a bus.
-
@nzzp said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
@act-crusader said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
It’s interesting, when Henry was reappointed after 2007, there was language to the effect that he “deserves a chance to redeem himself”.
He earned that by dominating world rugby for 4 years, crushing strong teams like France, England, etc, and building incredible depth in the squad. We missed that world cup by the alignment of a bunch of paper thin margins; injuries, reffing, lack of mental coaching, and a bit of arrogance.
His record spoke for itself. Fozzie's does not.
That said, I hope we have a whole lot of success under Foster, but I'm not expecting it. I expect marginal selections, poor game plans, and a lack of physicality. I hope to god I'm proved wrong, but we're seeing all the same characteristics we've seen before.
Lost 3 out of 4 in South Africa (Mitchell had won there in 02 and 03), that last minute win in Dunners against the Boks, barely scraped over the line against the Wallabies in 06 (both matches), the 1 point win against Wales - there were plenty of scratchy performances and this is during a time when we probably had more talent (albeit players on the rise too).
I certainly supported the reappointment of Henry but there were shaky performances, lots of rotation and selection question marks in that first 4 years. Which from my perspective is perfectly reasonable.
@act-crusader said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
@nzzp said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
@act-crusader said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
It’s interesting, when Henry was reappointed after 2007, there was language to the effect that he “deserves a chance to redeem himself”.
He earned that by dominating world rugby for 4 years, crushing strong teams like France, England, etc, and building incredible depth in the squad. We missed that world cup by the alignment of a bunch of paper thin margins; injuries, reffing, lack of mental coaching, and a bit of arrogance.
His record spoke for itself. Fozzie's does not.
That said, I hope we have a whole lot of success under Foster, but I'm not expecting it. I expect marginal selections, poor game plans, and a lack of physicality. I hope to god I'm proved wrong, but we're seeing all the same characteristics we've seen before.
Lost 3 out of 4 in South Africa (Mitchell had won there in 02 and 03), that last minute win in Dunners against the Boks, barely scraped over the line against the Wallabies in 06 (both matches), the 1 point win against Wales - there were plenty of scratchy performances and this is during a time when we probably had more talent (albeit players on the rise too).
I certainly supported the reappointment of Henry but there were shaky performances, lots of rotation and selection question marks in that first 4 years. Which from my perspective is perfectly reasonable.
I thought Henry played faced a superior-coached and skilled Bok side to Mitchell?
-
@taniwharugby said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
@rancid-schnitzel works both ways though, there are plenty of players Fozzie NEEDS, so if they came out swinging, NZR 'should' listen because if they felt they couldnt work with him, it jeopardises their future in Black, not form speaking out, but looking at off-shore options
The Barretts (mostly BB) Whitelock, Retallick, Ardie, Cane, Smith, ALB, Rieko, Mounga, Coles are all key to any side Fozzie is gonna pick and the near future of the team, if half them came out and said he's a dick, send him, I expect NZR would have no choice but to take it seriously.
Because you can garrantee the leadership group speak about such things, so a 'coup' of sorts is highly likely if they thought he was shit.
I have already said it was a shit decision to re-appoint now, while several games are ahead, and with the experience not going too, high possibility we lose more than 1.
Yeah I just feel if they don't hate the guy then it's unlikely they'll slander him. The leadership group must also be very close to him after all these years. All the players you mentioned will have probably developed a fairly strong friendship with him. Takes a lot to throw that under a bus.
@rancid-schnitzel said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
@taniwharugby said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
@rancid-schnitzel works both ways though, there are plenty of players Fozzie NEEDS, so if they came out swinging, NZR 'should' listen because if they felt they couldnt work with him, it jeopardises their future in Black, not form speaking out, but looking at off-shore options
The Barretts (mostly BB) Whitelock, Retallick, Ardie, Cane, Smith, ALB, Rieko, Mounga, Coles are all key to any side Fozzie is gonna pick and the near future of the team, if half them came out and said he's a dick, send him, I expect NZR would have no choice but to take it seriously.
Because you can garrantee the leadership group speak about such things, so a 'coup' of sorts is highly likely if they thought he was shit.
I have already said it was a shit decision to re-appoint now, while several games are ahead, and with the experience not going too, high possibility we lose more than 1.
Yeah I just feel if they don't hate the guy then it's unlikely they'll slander him. The leadership group must also be very close to him after all these years. All the players you mentioned will have probably developed a fairly strong friendship with him. Takes a lot to throw that under a bus.
I do wonder if they have the same loyalty to his assistants though.
-
@taniwharugby said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
@rancid-schnitzel works both ways though, there are plenty of players Fozzie NEEDS, so if they came out swinging, NZR 'should' listen because if they felt they couldnt work with him, it jeopardises their future in Black, not form speaking out, but looking at off-shore options
The Barretts (mostly BB) Whitelock, Retallick, Ardie, Cane, Smith, ALB, Rieko, Mounga, Coles are all key to any side Fozzie is gonna pick and the near future of the team, if half them came out and said he's a dick, send him, I expect NZR would have no choice but to take it seriously.
Because you can garrantee the leadership group speak about such things, so a 'coup' of sorts is highly likely if they thought he was shit.
I have already said it was a shit decision to re-appoint now, while several games are ahead, and with the experience not going too, high possibility we lose more than 1.
Yeah I just feel if they don't hate the guy then it's unlikely they'll slander him. The leadership group must also be very close to him after all these years. All the players you mentioned will have probably developed a fairly strong friendship with him. Takes a lot to throw that under a bus.
@rancid-schnitzel but this is thier careers too, surely if you think your boss is gonna hold your career back you leave or if given the opportunity to speak about them, you do?
But can also see the loyalty angle too.
The likes of Whitelock, Smith, Retallick have the opportunity to go out legends of our game, but if Fozzie (cos that is where the fingers are pointing) fucks things up for the team, it will tarnish thier careers too.
-
@rancid-schnitzel but this is thier careers too, surely if you think your boss is gonna hold your career back you leave or if given the opportunity to speak about them, you do?
But can also see the loyalty angle too.
The likes of Whitelock, Smith, Retallick have the opportunity to go out legends of our game, but if Fozzie (cos that is where the fingers are pointing) fucks things up for the team, it will tarnish thier careers too.
At the national level and particularly for the current crop of ABs, I can’t see any personalities or egos that would push for a coup even if they thought it was warranted.
Given the way the ABs are viewed and the whole “no one is bigger than the jersey” mantra, I’d say it would be highly unlikely for a player or even a handful to come out publicly and speak out about a coach to get them removed. Both players and coaches positions are pretty tenuous at the best of times.
I’d see that possibly happening at Super level where there’s less public scrutiny on the line (still risks), not the history and there is still a view that it’s all a bit artificial and about the money anyway so more cutthroat. But I’d say unlikely at provincial level because of the history, pride, grassroots, community connection etc.
-
There's a lot of pontificating in this thread about process, but the main issue as far as I can tell is that we just don't rate Foster, so any process that appoints Foster is flawed.
@godder said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
There's a lot of pontificating in this thread about process, but the main issue as far as I can tell is that we just don't rate Foster, so any process that appoints Foster is flawed.
It doesn't help that GH was part of the process and even he was disappointed they picked Fozzie
-
There's a lot of pontificating in this thread about process, but the main issue as far as I can tell is that we just don't rate Foster, so any process that appoints Foster is flawed.
@godder said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
There's a lot of pontificating in this thread about process, but the main issue as far as I can tell is that we just don't rate Foster, so any process that appoints Foster is flawed.
Or,
#1 we don't understand the process so judge Foster on his results..
#2 His results...
#3 ..We don't understand why he received two more years...
