The All Black's current midfield balance.
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@bovidae said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
@stargazer said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
Speaking of getting game time. Ennor should get some more, too.
I'm expecting to see a Tupaea-Ennor midfield against the USA.
Christ I hope not. What would that tell us? What has Ennor done this year to deserve a Test start at centre.
@antipodean said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
@bovidae said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
@stargazer said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
Speaking of getting game time. Ennor should get some more, too.
I'm expecting to see a Tupaea-Ennor midfield against the USA.
Christ I hope not. What would that tell us? What has Ennor done this year to deserve a Test start at centre.
To be fair, I'm not sure if we could pick a midfield that would actually tell us anything more, particularly while limiting ourselves to players that deserve a start
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@stargazer said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
It's ridiculous to write off the Havili-ALB combo at this stage.
ALB has been injured a lot. Now that he's back, let this combo play together and give them time to gel.
They played with BB inside them. He's not the answer at 10. Keep Mo'unga there.
The forward pack got dominated. Fix that first. That will give the backs more time.
Don't expect Havili or ALB to be a Nonu. That's the wrong approach.Shifting BB with RM won't change anything. Havili is like Mark Ellis - good player but Jack of all trades, master of none.
@rancid-schnitzel said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
@stargazer said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
It's ridiculous to write off the Havili-ALB combo at this stage.
ALB has been injured a lot. Now that he's back, let this combo play together and give them time to gel.
They played with BB inside them. He's not the answer at 10. Keep Mo'unga there.
The forward pack got dominated. Fix that first. That will give the backs more time.
Don't expect Havili or ALB to be a Nonu. That's the wrong approach.Shifting BB with RM won't change anything. Havili is like Mark Ellis - good player but Jack of all trades, master of none.
I seriously doubt he’s as good with the quips as Ellis despite the ‘zany’ haircuts
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As another poster pointed out, the Havili/ALB midfield partnership really lacks a ball carrier. It's not a complementary midfield pairing at all.
The issue with ALB and Havili is they're both lateral runners with finding & creating their space. You add DMac to that combination and good luck to the loose forwards.
We really could do with a physical 12. I believe Thomas Umaga-Jenson (107kg) from the Highlanders could eventually become world-class in this role for the All Blacks.
PeterThomas was instrumental when the Highlanders ambushed Crusaders 33-12 earlier this year, he's just got a knack for constantly getting injured, and he was just about to breakout at Super level..We are sorely missing the directness of guys like Goodhue/Reiko at 13. Nonu/SBW at 12.
@kiwi_expat rts and reiko for blues and world cup game breakers with speed to burn
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@bovidae said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
@stargazer said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
Speaking of getting game time. Ennor should get some more, too.
I'm expecting to see a Tupaea-Ennor midfield against the USA.
Christ I hope not. What would that tell us? What has Ennor done this year to deserve a Test start at centre.
@antipodean said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
@bovidae said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
@stargazer said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
Speaking of getting game time. Ennor should get some more, too.
I'm expecting to see a Tupaea-Ennor midfield against the USA.
Christ I hope not. What would that tell us? What has Ennor done this year to deserve a Test start at centre.
They will use this "test" to give some of the squad a much-needed game, e.g., de Groot, Vaa'i, Sotutu, Christie etc. Hell, Bridge will probably score a hat-trick.
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Havili's problem is that if he doesn't beat you with footwork he isn't going to get you over the advantage line. Tupaea has shown some strength post-tackle, which Havili hasn't.
@bovidae said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
Havili's problem is that if he doesn't beat you with footwork he isn't going to get you over the advantage line. Tupaea has shown some strength post-tackle, which Havili hasn't.
The problem that both of our midfielders have - and actually it's a problem across the team at the moment - is that neither of them are really great running onto the ball. They tend to get the ball a bit flat footed and use a jink on the inside or gas on the outside, but that's a real momentum killer when you have that fish hook defensive line that the Boks play. It therefore becomes very hard to bend or break the line. Even our forwards tend to hit up the ball in that manner - even Akira did it far too often on the weekend, which defeats the purpose of having him hit up the ball.
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@bovidae said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
Havili's problem is that if he doesn't beat you with footwork he isn't going to get you over the advantage line. Tupaea has shown some strength post-tackle, which Havili hasn't.
The problem that both of our midfielders have - and actually it's a problem across the team at the moment - is that neither of them are really great running onto the ball. They tend to get the ball a bit flat footed and use a jink on the inside or gas on the outside, but that's a real momentum killer when you have that fish hook defensive line that the Boks play. It therefore becomes very hard to bend or break the line. Even our forwards tend to hit up the ball in that manner - even Akira did it far too often on the weekend, which defeats the purpose of having him hit up the ball.
@junior said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
@bovidae said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
Havili's problem is that if he doesn't beat you with footwork he isn't going to get you over the advantage line. Tupaea has shown some strength post-tackle, which Havili hasn't.
The problem that both of our midfielders have - and actually it's a problem across the team at the moment - is that neither of them are really great running onto the ball. They tend to get the ball a bit flat footed and use a jink on the inside or gas on the outside, but that's a real momentum killer when you have that fish hook defensive line that the Boks play. It therefore becomes very hard to bend or break the line. Even our forwards tend to hit up the ball in that manner - even Akira did it far too often on the weekend, which defeats the purpose of having him hit up the ball.
The only person that pierced the line on a regular basis last night was Jordie. Just ran hard and straight. Ardie too
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@bovidae said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
Havili's problem is that if he doesn't beat you with footwork he isn't going to get you over the advantage line. Tupaea has shown some strength post-tackle, which Havili hasn't.
The problem that both of our midfielders have - and actually it's a problem across the team at the moment - is that neither of them are really great running onto the ball. They tend to get the ball a bit flat footed and use a jink on the inside or gas on the outside, but that's a real momentum killer when you have that fish hook defensive line that the Boks play. It therefore becomes very hard to bend or break the line. Even our forwards tend to hit up the ball in that manner - even Akira did it far too often on the weekend, which defeats the purpose of having him hit up the ball.
@junior our attack sets up pretty flat compared to most international sides, so we only tend to run from distance in broken play attack
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@bovidae said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
Havili's problem is that if he doesn't beat you with footwork he isn't going to get you over the advantage line. Tupaea has shown some strength post-tackle, which Havili hasn't.
The problem that both of our midfielders have - and actually it's a problem across the team at the moment - is that neither of them are really great running onto the ball. They tend to get the ball a bit flat footed and use a jink on the inside or gas on the outside, but that's a real momentum killer when you have that fish hook defensive line that the Boks play. It therefore becomes very hard to bend or break the line. Even our forwards tend to hit up the ball in that manner - even Akira did it far too often on the weekend, which defeats the purpose of having him hit up the ball.
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@junior our attack sets up pretty flat compared to most international sides, so we only tend to run from distance in broken play attack
@act-crusader well it does not seem to work all the time especially when there is no space.
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@act-crusader well it does not seem to work all the time especially when there is no space.
@broughie said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
@act-crusader well it does not seem to work all the time especially when there is no space.
I think it works fine against defences that don't rush as quickly as the Boks do but we may have to stand deeper against them. The two attempted intercepts by the Boks could have been avoided if we weren't so flat.
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@broughie said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
@act-crusader well it does not seem to work all the time especially when there is no space.
I think it works fine against defences that don't rush as quickly as the Boks do but we may have to stand deeper against them. The two attempted intercepts by the Boks could have been avoided if we weren't so flat.
@akan004 said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
@broughie said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
@act-crusader well it does not seem to work all the time especially when there is no space.
I think it works fine against defences that don't rush as quickly as the Boks do but we may have to stand deeper against them. The two attempted intercepts by the Boks could have been avoided if we weren't so flat.
I thought both this week and last week the last man tipping the ball on should have been carded. Both were compromised, with an overlap outside them.
But the standard seems very different in different weeks. I don't care what the stanrdard is, as long as everyone understands it and knows the consequences of what they are doing
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@junior our attack sets up pretty flat compared to most international sides, so we only tend to run from distance in broken play attack
@act-crusader said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
@junior our attack sets up pretty flat compared to most international sides, so we only tend to run from distance in broken play attack
Which makes no sense when our whole backline strategy appears to be based on speed of foot and hand. We need to actually have some space to build up that speed in the first place. For instance, part of the appeal of having Rieko at 13 is his pace and ability to beat man in the outside or get us going forward by taking the outside shoulder. If he is getting the ball flat footed it becomes really hard to use that pace
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@broughie said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
@act-crusader well it does not seem to work all the time especially when there is no space.
I think it works fine against defences that don't rush as quickly as the Boks do but we may have to stand deeper against them. The two attempted intercepts by the Boks could have been avoided if we weren't so flat.
@akan004 said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
@broughie said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
@act-crusader well it does not seem to work all the time especially when there is no space.
I think it works fine against defences that don't rush as quickly as the Boks do but we may have to stand deeper against them. The two attempted intercepts by the Boks could have been avoided if we weren't so flat.
It’s works OK when our forwards are going forward and they buy us space. We have to learn that against some teams we just won’t go forward as much as we need to up front and so should be prepared to change our alignment to give the backs a bit more time and space. Christ, we do this at club level I would expect professionals to be able to do it
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@broughie said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
@act-crusader well it does not seem to work all the time especially when there is no space.
I think it works fine against defences that don't rush as quickly as the Boks do but we may have to stand deeper against them. The two attempted intercepts by the Boks could have been avoided if we weren't so flat.
@akan004 exactly. You can’t push a square peg into a round hole. Have to be able to adapt. As to the intercept issue I think you can’t penalize I player for trying to make an intercept. To me it really has to be blatant and no chance of being caught. Penalizing a team for a poor pass is stupid.
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@akan004 exactly. You can’t push a square peg into a round hole. Have to be able to adapt. As to the intercept issue I think you can’t penalize I player for trying to make an intercept. To me it really has to be blatant and no chance of being caught. Penalizing a team for a poor pass is stupid.
@broughie said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
@akan004 exactly. You can’t push a square peg into a round hole. Have to be able to adapt. As to the intercept issue I think you can’t penalize I player for trying to make an intercept. To me it really has to be blatant and no chance of being caught. Penalizing a team for a poor pass is stupid.
Wel you can penlaize, that's the rule now - fail take the penaly. That wasn't a sure fire try but it was a massive advantage that the Boks nullified with that penalty. I loathe it, you can't tell intent so to me, penalize the fuckers. Otherwise it is a real easy way to kill an attack.
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@akan004 exactly. You can’t push a square peg into a round hole. Have to be able to adapt. As to the intercept issue I think you can’t penalize I player for trying to make an intercept. To me it really has to be blatant and no chance of being caught. Penalizing a team for a poor pass is stupid.
@broughie said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
As to the intercept issue I think you can’t penalize I player for trying to make an intercept. To me it really has to be blatant and no chance of being caught. Penalizing a team for a poor pass is stupid.
... but presumably you don't like some weeks it being a yellow card, some weeks a penalty, and some weeks a knock on only? Because right now the reffing interpretations are pretty random.
I know it's the dead horse I flog, and there's lots of room for interpretation in some areas of the game, but basic, clear cut principles should be consistently applied week to week.
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@broughie said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
As to the intercept issue I think you can’t penalize I player for trying to make an intercept. To me it really has to be blatant and no chance of being caught. Penalizing a team for a poor pass is stupid.
... but presumably you don't like some weeks it being a yellow card, some weeks a penalty, and some weeks a knock on only? Because right now the reffing interpretations are pretty random.
I know it's the dead horse I flog, and there's lots of room for interpretation in some areas of the game, but basic, clear cut principles should be consistently applied week to week.
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@nzzp one in Friday night in NPC where a player stuck a hand out, ball touched and stopped getting to the next man, scrum only.
@taniwharugby said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
@nzzp one in Friday night in NPC where a player stuck a hand out, ball touched and stopped getting to the next man, scrum only.
yep. Frankly, I don't care particularly what the interpretation is, more that there is a clear expectation of what it means.
Could be something like
two hands = scrum
one hand = penalty
one hand + overlap = yellow card unless mitigation -
@broughie said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
As to the intercept issue I think you can’t penalize I player for trying to make an intercept. To me it really has to be blatant and no chance of being caught. Penalizing a team for a poor pass is stupid.
... but presumably you don't like some weeks it being a yellow card, some weeks a penalty, and some weeks a knock on only? Because right now the reffing interpretations are pretty random.
I know it's the dead horse I flog, and there's lots of room for interpretation in some areas of the game, but basic, clear cut principles should be consistently applied week to week.
@nzzp said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
@broughie said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
As to the intercept issue I think you can’t penalize I player for trying to make an intercept. To me it really has to be blatant and no chance of being caught. Penalizing a team for a poor pass is stupid.
... but presumably you don't like some weeks it being a yellow card, some weeks a penalty, and some weeks a knock on only? Because right now the reffing interpretations are pretty random.
I know it's the dead horse I flog, and there's lots of room for interpretation in some areas of the game, but basic, clear cut principles should be consistently applied week to week.
When it is a clear professional foul such as diving forward like a slips catch to cut off a three on one overlap the YC should be the first thing that comes to mind. Not just for the advantage taken away but the ruination of the type of play that spectators pay money to watch.
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@nzzp said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
@broughie said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
As to the intercept issue I think you can’t penalize I player for trying to make an intercept. To me it really has to be blatant and no chance of being caught. Penalizing a team for a poor pass is stupid.
... but presumably you don't like some weeks it being a yellow card, some weeks a penalty, and some weeks a knock on only? Because right now the reffing interpretations are pretty random.
I know it's the dead horse I flog, and there's lots of room for interpretation in some areas of the game, but basic, clear cut principles should be consistently applied week to week.
When it is a clear professional foul such as diving forward like a slips catch to cut off a three on one overlap the YC should be the first thing that comes to mind. Not just for the advantage taken away but the ruination of the type of play that spectators pay money to watch.
@crucial said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
@nzzp said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
@broughie said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
As to the intercept issue I think you can’t penalize I player for trying to make an intercept. To me it really has to be blatant and no chance of being caught. Penalizing a team for a poor pass is stupid.
... but presumably you don't like some weeks it being a yellow card, some weeks a penalty, and some weeks a knock on only? Because right now the reffing interpretations are pretty random.
I know it's the dead horse I flog, and there's lots of room for interpretation in some areas of the game, but basic, clear cut principles should be consistently applied week to week.
When it is a clear professional foul such as diving forward like a slips catch to cut off a three on one overlap the YC should be the first thing that comes to mind. Not just for the advantage taken away but the ruination of the type of play that spectators pay money to watch.
I agree, but I think the refs don't align.
Do you think both last week and this week were yellow cards? I do - and arguably last week was a PT as well; cynical play that stopped a probable try
