All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour
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@frye said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CWbFIndvqQ6/?utm_medium=copy_link
Bugger me, about twenty minutes ago I had the thought, 'Have TWM abandonded the idea of Bridge as the 'reliable' wing'?!
Pretty tough on Paps!!!!
TJP and Reece didn't survive review of Irish match.
Can only assume Frizell there to allow extra physicality in last 20, if required.
Overall fairly happy with team.
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@victor-meldrew Good point. The Foster 'chat' might suggest a bit shagged?
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@victor-meldrew Good point. The Foster 'chat' might suggest a bit shagged?
@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew Good point. The Foster 'chat' might suggest a bit shagged?
Yeah 6 million tackles last week!
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@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew Good point. The Foster 'chat' might suggest a bit shagged?
Yeah 6 million tackles last week!
@machpants said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew Good point. The Foster 'chat' might suggest a bit shagged?
Yeah 6 million tackles last week!
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Good team.
I would have kept Paps at 7 -
@frye said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CWbFIndvqQ6/?utm_medium=copy_link
Good too see some dropped, but internally it'll be thought of as rested. According to their review as they did nothing but missed the final bit of execution. We're fucked if Rieko goes out, he's the only decent wing cover (not so important) but who the fuck goes to 13? Fullback havili? Limited noob Tupaea? Jordie? Fucking DMac?
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@frye said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CWbFIndvqQ6/?utm_medium=copy_link
Good too see some dropped, but internally it'll be thought of as rested. According to their review as they did nothing but missed the final bit of execution. We're fucked if Rieko goes out, he's the only decent wing cover (not so important) but who the fuck goes to 13? Fullback havili? Limited noob Tupaea? Jordie? Fucking DMac?
@machpants said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@frye said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CWbFIndvqQ6/?utm_medium=copy_link
Good too see some dropped, but internally it'll be thought of as rested. According to their review as they did nothing but missed the final bit of execution. We're fucked if Rieko goes out, he's the only decent wing cover (not so important) but who the fuck goes to 13? Fullback havili? Limited noob Tupaea? Jordie? Fucking DMac?
Jordie obviously
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@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@kirwan said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@kirwan said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Razor can’t be held responsible for the idiot that stuffs his game up when he is not under Razor.
Not sure what this has to do with George Bridge....
Bridge plays ok under Razor so same story.
But that only holds true if Test rugby isn't step-up from Super Rugby, doesn't it?
What ?
Lots of players look good in Super Rugby and struggle up a level in Test rugby.
What has that do with Foster being coach and Razor not being good enough to be AB coach that’s what the discusion was about.
Foster has picked Bridge for 2 years so if he isn’t good enough for Test Rugby that confirms Foster should not be AB coach as he can’t identify who is good enough to play test rugby.
Razor can’t be judged as not being good enough and that’s what the original conversation was about if he hasn’t had a chance .You are the one comparing how players go under Razor, at a lower level of rugby. It's not a good comparison.
No Crucial started that I gave the opposite opinion. As I said to him its not a good comparison reversed either.
No. You are still getting the wrong end of the stick.
I was simply saying (if you go back to my OP) that it is a valid question to ask whether lifting Razor up a step automatically means fixing weaknesses when he has already had a chance to fix those weaknesses in some players for many years (or direct his assistants to do so).
I have not claimed that he is a bad coach. I am questioning why he may not have taken action to improve some of the problems players have already. Maybe he has tried and there is no room for improvement eg RMs decision making under pressure and 'lack' of direction.
If that is the case then that doesn't point to him being able to fix AB problems because no one can probably fix that player further eg can't turn RM into DC.
Therefore given the current cattle he can't turn around the team in those key areas.There is way too much assumption that he would be the saviour of AB rugby and talk of the stupidity of NZR not to appoint him. We heard all the same stuff about Deans but in the end did history show that we threw away a great coach?
No but we sure haven't made a good decision in appointing Foster, we would not have been worse of would we ? .And maybe in a better position than we are now if they had gone with Razor..
I would prefer to see Robertson get a chance on the back of being a winning coach year in year out.
But I would rather have Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck coaching the AB's than the present crop of losers.I don't necessarily disagree but reserve the right to question whether he is the BEST choice when there is a strong likelihood that he will continue the selection of players that have proven to be defective.
If he can bring in a different style that plays to their strengths and doesn't expose their weaknesses then fair enough. I'm just asking the question.@crucial said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@kirwan said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@kirwan said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Razor can’t be held responsible for the idiot that stuffs his game up when he is not under Razor.
Not sure what this has to do with George Bridge....
Bridge plays ok under Razor so same story.
But that only holds true if Test rugby isn't step-up from Super Rugby, doesn't it?
What ?
Lots of players look good in Super Rugby and struggle up a level in Test rugby.
What has that do with Foster being coach and Razor not being good enough to be AB coach that’s what the discusion was about.
Foster has picked Bridge for 2 years so if he isn’t good enough for Test Rugby that confirms Foster should not be AB coach as he can’t identify who is good enough to play test rugby.
Razor can’t be judged as not being good enough and that’s what the original conversation was about if he hasn’t had a chance .You are the one comparing how players go under Razor, at a lower level of rugby. It's not a good comparison.
No Crucial started that I gave the opposite opinion. As I said to him its not a good comparison reversed either.
No. You are still getting the wrong end of the stick.
I was simply saying (if you go back to my OP) that it is a valid question to ask whether lifting Razor up a step automatically means fixing weaknesses when he has already had a chance to fix those weaknesses in some players for many years (or direct his assistants to do so).
I have not claimed that he is a bad coach. I am questioning why he may not have taken action to improve some of the problems players have already. Maybe he has tried and there is no room for improvement eg RMs decision making under pressure and 'lack' of direction.
If that is the case then that doesn't point to him being able to fix AB problems because no one can probably fix that player further eg can't turn RM into DC.
Therefore given the current cattle he can't turn around the team in those key areas.There is way too much assumption that he would be the saviour of AB rugby and talk of the stupidity of NZR not to appoint him. We heard all the same stuff about Deans but in the end did history show that we threw away a great coach?
No but we sure haven't made a good decision in appointing Foster, we would not have been worse of would we ? .And maybe in a better position than we are now if they had gone with Razor..
I would prefer to see Robertson get a chance on the back of being a winning coach year in year out.
But I would rather have Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck coaching the AB's than the present crop of losers.I don't necessarily disagree but reserve the right to question whether he is the BEST choice when there is a strong likelihood that he will continue the selection of players that have proven to be defective.
If he can bring in a different style that plays to their strengths and doesn't expose their weaknesses then fair enough. I'm just asking the question.To be honest, I would completely understand if he came in now or very close to the RWC and basically went all Cantablacks (with a few key plug ins) in order to try and blag a RWC Rassie style. But, if he came in 2024 with a full cycle ahead of him and still went down that route I would think we have a serious problem
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Ennor for bridge. Jacobson for frizzell.
Otherwise happy enough. At least they changed the front row bench.
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@frye said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CWbFIndvqQ6/?utm_medium=copy_link
Good too see some dropped, but internally it'll be thought of as rested. According to their review as they did nothing but missed the final bit of execution. We're fucked if Rieko goes out, he's the only decent wing cover (not so important) but who the fuck goes to 13? Fullback havili? Limited noob Tupaea? Jordie? Fucking DMac?
@machpants DMac has a good record on the wing. You wouldn’t want to start him there and have everything kicked his way but filling in later and working in tandem with the FB isn’t so bad.
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Akira and Frizell career defining match
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Seeing that French side, nz by 10. Too much brawn not enough brain.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@duluth said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@duluth said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
awful lot of slack if he chucked the baby out with the bathwater this week and just threw newbies in there everywhere. Lets see what they are made of.
Vaa'i, Tupaea, Taukei'aho?
yep. Change at least one loose forward (i would change 2, actually probably 3) as well.
Fuck all you can do at prop except bring Ofa T in and hope he keeps his brain connected
I like the idea of dropping Retallick for Vaa'i. It sends a signal that no one is safe if they don't perform
Surely QT will start?
I'd start Coles and have ST on the bench. Taylor has earned a demotion.
Loosies - Cane/Savea/Ioane with Papali'i on the bench. I hope Cane is ready for a hard Test..
Props? No idea. They are all a bit shit. Ofa has been disappointing since returning from injury.
yea, i would start Ioane, Cane, and Sotutu actually. With one of Papali'i or Blackadder on the bench (both bloody good players who are both still learning).
Savea should be on the chopping block if we're serious. But he will start, because there isn't much in the way of accountability.
That Ardie is seen as indispensable sums up the problems. We were told at the outset they were going to address our passiveness and yet he's named constantly.
A coach fav at No.8 according to Foster.
Savea on the bench or at 7 if starting
I wouldn’t mind seeing Akira at 8.@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@duluth said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@duluth said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
awful lot of slack if he chucked the baby out with the bathwater this week and just threw newbies in there everywhere. Lets see what they are made of.
Vaa'i, Tupaea, Taukei'aho?
yep. Change at least one loose forward (i would change 2, actually probably 3) as well.
Fuck all you can do at prop except bring Ofa T in and hope he keeps his brain connected
I like the idea of dropping Retallick for Vaa'i. It sends a signal that no one is safe if they don't perform
Surely QT will start?
I'd start Coles and have ST on the bench. Taylor has earned a demotion.
Loosies - Cane/Savea/Ioane with Papali'i on the bench. I hope Cane is ready for a hard Test..
Props? No idea. They are all a bit shit. Ofa has been disappointing since returning from injury.
yea, i would start Ioane, Cane, and Sotutu actually. With one of Papali'i or Blackadder on the bench (both bloody good players who are both still learning).
Savea should be on the chopping block if we're serious. But he will start, because there isn't much in the way of accountability.
That Ardie is seen as indispensable sums up the problems. We were told at the outset they were going to address our passiveness and yet he's named constantly.
A coach fav at No.8 according to Foster.
Savea on the bench or at 7 if starting
I wouldn’t mind seeing Akira at 8.Savea basically has all the same deficiencies that Akira gets crucified for except he has a bigger highlight reel
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This loose trio is better balanced, but the insistence on putting Ardie at 8 will always throw it out.
We need an 8 at 8, Sotutu probably the only out and out 8, but he seems out of favour.
Great Aaron is back, but gee if TJ doesn't get the hint from this and this coaching team don't realise at this moment the gap from Aaron to next cab is far too big and need to have developing players behind Webber is thier one of thier main jobs for 2022
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@crucial said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@kirwan said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@kirwan said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Razor can’t be held responsible for the idiot that stuffs his game up when he is not under Razor.
Not sure what this has to do with George Bridge....
Bridge plays ok under Razor so same story.
But that only holds true if Test rugby isn't step-up from Super Rugby, doesn't it?
What ?
Lots of players look good in Super Rugby and struggle up a level in Test rugby.
What has that do with Foster being coach and Razor not being good enough to be AB coach that’s what the discusion was about.
Foster has picked Bridge for 2 years so if he isn’t good enough for Test Rugby that confirms Foster should not be AB coach as he can’t identify who is good enough to play test rugby.
Razor can’t be judged as not being good enough and that’s what the original conversation was about if he hasn’t had a chance .You are the one comparing how players go under Razor, at a lower level of rugby. It's not a good comparison.
No Crucial started that I gave the opposite opinion. As I said to him its not a good comparison reversed either.
No. You are still getting the wrong end of the stick.
I was simply saying (if you go back to my OP) that it is a valid question to ask whether lifting Razor up a step automatically means fixing weaknesses when he has already had a chance to fix those weaknesses in some players for many years (or direct his assistants to do so).
I have not claimed that he is a bad coach. I am questioning why he may not have taken action to improve some of the problems players have already. Maybe he has tried and there is no room for improvement eg RMs decision making under pressure and 'lack' of direction.
If that is the case then that doesn't point to him being able to fix AB problems because no one can probably fix that player further eg can't turn RM into DC.
Therefore given the current cattle he can't turn around the team in those key areas.There is way too much assumption that he would be the saviour of AB rugby and talk of the stupidity of NZR not to appoint him. We heard all the same stuff about Deans but in the end did history show that we threw away a great coach?
No but we sure haven't made a good decision in appointing Foster, we would not have been worse of would we ? .And maybe in a better position than we are now if they had gone with Razor..
I would prefer to see Robertson get a chance on the back of being a winning coach year in year out.
But I would rather have Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck coaching the AB's than the present crop of losers.I don't necessarily disagree but reserve the right to question whether he is the BEST choice when there is a strong likelihood that he will continue the selection of players that have proven to be defective.
If he can bring in a different style that plays to their strengths and doesn't expose their weaknesses then fair enough. I'm just asking the question.To be honest, I would completely understand if he came in now or very close to the RWC and basically went all Cantablacks (with a few key plug ins) in order to try and blag a RWC Rassie style. But, if he came in 2024 with a full cycle ahead of him and still went down that route I would think we have a serious problem
@junior said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
To be honest, I would completely understand if he came in now or very close to the RWC and basically went all Cantablacks (with a few key plug ins) in order to try and blag a RWC Rassie style.
Sounds like a Crusaders supporter's wet dream
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This loose trio is better balanced, but the insistence on putting Ardie at 8 will always throw it out.
We need an 8 at 8, Sotutu probably the only out and out 8, but he seems out of favour.
Great Aaron is back, but gee if TJ doesn't get the hint from this and this coaching team don't realise at this moment the gap from Aaron to next cab is far too big and need to have developing players behind Webber is thier one of thier main jobs for 2022
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Great Aaron is back, but gee if TJ doesn't get the hint from this and this coaching team don't realise at this moment the gap from Aaron to next cab is far too big and need to have developing players behind Webber is thier one of thier main jobs for 2022
We don't need flash, we us need 9's who can do the basics well and get to the ruck and clear quickly. TJP's shown he's too limited at that except in the final 20.
Christie may not be a world-class 9, but he hasn't looked out of his depth either.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I want to see a team which is hurting after Dublin, playing as if their careers depended on it, looking pissed off at stupid mistakes and, above all, hungry.
And I can also see that happening, but just like a cricketer on the verge of being dropped, a one effort big knock will paper over the cracks for a while longer.
@crucial said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I want to see a team which is hurting after Dublin, playing as if their careers depended on it, looking pissed off at stupid mistakes and, above all, hungry.
And I can also see that happening, but just like a cricketer on the verge of being dropped, a one effort big knock will paper over the cracks for a while longer.
The appropriate analogy would be a struggling cricketer getting dropped a few times and scoring cheaply off some poor bowling just like we are likely to rack up 40 points off intercepts, dropped balls and soft turnovers (and of course a tinny Will Jordan chip and chase)
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders thats where we we get into the pure speculation territory
whats more likely, a coach drills the team in the basics (passing, catching, tackling, which is where we're seeing a lot of deficiencies) and then these professional sportsmen just forget....or the coach is focusing on other aspects of the game (broken play, counter attack) leaving the players to get rusty at the basics
i dont know, both seem a stupid idea but i get the feeling one of the two is happening
I would have thought a professional player good enough to make the ABs would have the basics of tackling, passing and catching pretty much baked in and not need much drilling from an AB coach.
If those skills are rusty, that's down to the coaches at the lower levels and the players themselves. I'm quite sure the likes of Nonu & Smith practised passing in their own time and set their own high standards and I'm sure plenty of todays player are the same.
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders thats where we we get into the pure speculation territory
whats more likely, a coach drills the team in the basics (passing, catching, tackling, which is where we're seeing a lot of deficiencies) and then these professional sportsmen just forget....or the coach is focusing on other aspects of the game (broken play, counter attack) leaving the players to get rusty at the basics
i dont know, both seem a stupid idea but i get the feeling one of the two is happening
I would have thought a professional player good enough to make the ABs would have the basics of tackling, passing and catching pretty much baked in and not need much drilling from an AB coach.
If those skills are rusty, that's down to the coaches at the lower levels and the players themselves. I'm quite sure the likes of Nonu & Smith practised passing in their own time and set their own high standards and I'm sure plenty of todays player are the same.
With respect, you’d be very wrong about that. About 2010 or so I had dinner with some friends and a newly capped AB happened to be there. We talked about him being new to the AB environmental and the difference with what he experienced with his Super franchise. He said the biggest difference was the amount of time they out into the basics - catching, passing, tackling, rucking, pushing in scrums, jumping in lineouts. He said in few short weeks in camp his basic skills had improved massively. Whereas at Super level the skills were almost assumed and a bit of afterthought, something they did as a bit of warmup before working on set piece moves and general patterns.
