All Blacks 2022
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@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2022:
@canefan
this was the problem both backrooms were weak. plumtree maybe the differenceI've been thinking that Plumtree is one of the weak points. His teams have never really stood out as being sharp. He's a bit of a 'follow the manual' type coach that can talk some game and appear good in interviews but has very little that raises him above the crowd.
This is just my impression of course. I have no practical knowledge apart from watching and listening to him many years ago when he'd come to development sessions for schools. He was in the system and kept moving up. -
@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2022:
@canefan
this was the problem both backrooms were weak. plumtree maybe the differenceHe certainly had plenty of international coaching experience, which would have been an advantage to the panel/NZR board.
Wales
Ireland
SA
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@crucial well he's the forwards coach isn't he, so the fact we haven't been able to match it physically or tactically with the top teams this year, that's on him and Fozzie.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial well he's the forwards coach isn't he, so the fact we haven't been able to match it physically or tactically with the top teams this year, that's on him and Fozzie.
There's a big difference when you compare Plumtree words ("we want forwards who can generate their own go forward/momentum") vs what's been put on the field in two seasons. There have been glimpses of it (Argentina test 2 2020 in Newcastle, after halftime vs France) but for the most part disappointing.
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First on the chopping block should be Mooar.
Razor and Mansbridge let him go because he was a terrible backs coach.
Hilarious that Foster didn't even bother to do his research on the guy and convinced NZR to waste thousands paying out the rest of his contract at Scarlets!
Some potentially world-class attack coaches NZR should approach:
Jason O'Halloran (Suntory)
Nick Evans (Harlequins)
Mark Ozich (Western Force)
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First on the chopping block should be Mooar.
Razor and Mansbridge let him go because he was a terrible backs coach.
Hilarious that Foster didn't even bother to do his research on the guy and convinced NZR to waste thousands paying out the rest of his contract at Scarlets!
Some potentially world-class attack coaches NZR should approach:
Jason O'Halloran (Suntory)
Nick Evans (Harlequins)
Mark Ozich (Western Force)
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@kiwi_expat Mooar would have been third choice at best. Foster has already admitted he approached Schmidt and Brown.
@bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat Mooar would have been third choice at best. Foster has already admitted he approached Schmidt and Brown.
It just shows how woefully out of touch Fozzie is, he probably thought he'd signed a diamond, when he'd actually landed a complete dud..
Mooar was so poorly thought of by Razor as a backs coach, that it didn't even cross his mind to consider him for his pitch, even as a last resort option.
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@bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat Mooar would have been third choice at best. Foster has already admitted he approached Schmidt and Brown.
It just shows how woefully out of touch Fozzie is, he probably thought he'd signed a diamond, when he'd actually landed a complete dud..
Mooar was so poorly thought of by Razor as a backs coach, that it didn't even cross his mind to consider him for his pitch, even as a last resort option.
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
@bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat Mooar would have been third choice at best. Foster has already admitted he approached Schmidt and Brown.
Mooar was so poorly thought of by Razor as a backs coach, that it didn't even cross his mind to consider him for his pitch, even as a last resort option.
How do you know that?
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
@bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat Mooar would have been third choice at best. Foster has already admitted he approached Schmidt and Brown.
Mooar was so poorly thought of by Razor as a backs coach, that it didn't even cross his mind to consider him for his pitch, even as a last resort option.
How do you know that?
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
@bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat Mooar would have been third choice at best. Foster has already admitted he approached Schmidt and Brown.
Mooar was so poorly thought of by Razor as a backs coach, that it didn't even cross his mind to consider him for his pitch, even as a last resort option.
How do you know that?
It's pretty well known Razor and Mooar don't get on at all. How much of that is personality vs coaching ability who knows.
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@bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat Mooar would have been third choice at best. Foster has already admitted he approached Schmidt and Brown.
It just shows how woefully out of touch Fozzie is, he probably thought he'd signed a diamond, when he'd actually landed a complete dud..
Mooar was so poorly thought of by Razor as a backs coach, that it didn't even cross his mind to consider him for his pitch, even as a last resort option.
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@crazy-horse said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
@bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat Mooar would have been third choice at best. Foster has already admitted he approached Schmidt and Brown.
Mooar was so poorly thought of by Razor as a backs coach, that it didn't even cross his mind to consider him for his pitch, even as a last resort option.
How do you know that?
It's pretty well known Razor and Mooar don't get on at all. How much of that is personality vs coaching ability who knows.
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
@bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat Mooar would have been third choice at best. Foster has already admitted he approached Schmidt and Brown.
Mooar was so poorly thought of by Razor as a backs coach, that it didn't even cross his mind to consider him for his pitch, even as a last resort option.
How do you know that?
It's pretty well known Razor and Mooar don't get on at all. How much of that is personality vs coaching ability who knows.
I don't think it's material - on evidence alone his coaching is useless.
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@crazy-horse said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
@bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat Mooar would have been third choice at best. Foster has already admitted he approached Schmidt and Brown.
Mooar was so poorly thought of by Razor as a backs coach, that it didn't even cross his mind to consider him for his pitch, even as a last resort option.
How do you know that?
It's pretty well known Razor and Mooar don't get on at all. How much of that is personality vs coaching ability who knows.
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
@bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat Mooar would have been third choice at best. Foster has already admitted he approached Schmidt and Brown.
Mooar was so poorly thought of by Razor as a backs coach, that it didn't even cross his mind to consider him for his pitch, even as a last resort option.
How do you know that?
It's pretty well known Razor and Mooar don't get on at all. How much of that is personality vs coaching ability who knows.
I remember a post on here from someone with connections to Crusaders camp, basically, Mooar an average 'provincial-level' coach, that was the consensus from Razor & co apparently.
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Well with Schmidt joining the team, a bit of info about possible replacements for some of Fozzies other crew would be a decent way to end the year.
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@kiwimurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
@bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat Mooar would have been third choice at best. Foster has already admitted he approached Schmidt and Brown.
Mooar was so poorly thought of by Razor as a backs coach, that it didn't even cross his mind to consider him for his pitch, even as a last resort option.
How do you know that?
It's pretty well known Razor and Mooar don't get on at all. How much of that is personality vs coaching ability who knows.
I remember a post on here from someone with connections to Crusaders camp, basically, Mooar an average 'provincial-level' coach, that was the consensus from Razor & co apparently.
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
@bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat Mooar would have been third choice at best. Foster has already admitted he approached Schmidt and Brown.
Mooar was so poorly thought of by Razor as a backs coach, that it didn't even cross his mind to consider him for his pitch, even as a last resort option.
How do you know that?
It's pretty well known Razor and Mooar don't get on at all. How much of that is personality vs coaching ability who knows.
I remember a post on here from someone with connections to Crusaders camp, basically, Mooar an average 'provincial-level' coach, that was the consensus from Razor & co apparently.
Did Razor inherit him? Even so he kept him around for a coupe of seasons before reaching that conclusion.
I used to be an advocate for the old school type career coach that wasn't a name player previously. The guys that came through the grades and learned the trade.
I have a feeling that has changed a bit over the last decade or so with the pro side of rugby being more than just 'get out there and follow the plan'. Players are encouraged to understand tactics deeply and it does bring out those with good thought processes that intrinsically know what works and what doesn't.
We still get ex-players that aren't great thinkers but those that are tend to be much better than the 'through the grades' types.
We went through a jobs for the boys phase and now I think we may be coming to an end of the coaches that pass all the theory classes and speak the textbook lingo.
Fosters team appears full of these vanilla backroom assistants at a time when we need to innovate to get backon the front foot of the international game. We had a good run based on fitness many moons ago then another good run based on skills and quick thinking. Our instinctive play is now shut down by highly organised defences and we need to take another look at things.
We've tried "rope a dope" and it doesn't work against well drilled teams. IMO we need to stretch other teams mentally. Challenge their decision making rather than their ability to work in a pattern. Mix up our attack with running lines and skilled kicking from hand. -
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
@bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat Mooar would have been third choice at best. Foster has already admitted he approached Schmidt and Brown.
Mooar was so poorly thought of by Razor as a backs coach, that it didn't even cross his mind to consider him for his pitch, even as a last resort option.
How do you know that?
It's pretty well known Razor and Mooar don't get on at all. How much of that is personality vs coaching ability who knows.
I remember a post on here from someone with connections to Crusaders camp, basically, Mooar an average 'provincial-level' coach, that was the consensus from Razor & co apparently.
Did Razor inherit him? Even so he kept him around for a coupe of seasons before reaching that conclusion.
I used to be an advocate for the old school type career coach that wasn't a name player previously. The guys that came through the grades and learned the trade.
I have a feeling that has changed a bit over the last decade or so with the pro side of rugby being more than just 'get out there and follow the plan'. Players are encouraged to understand tactics deeply and it does bring out those with good thought processes that intrinsically know what works and what doesn't.
We still get ex-players that aren't great thinkers but those that are tend to be much better than the 'through the grades' types.
We went through a jobs for the boys phase and now I think we may be coming to an end of the coaches that pass all the theory classes and speak the textbook lingo.
Fosters team appears full of these vanilla backroom assistants at a time when we need to innovate to get backon the front foot of the international game. We had a good run based on fitness many moons ago then another good run based on skills and quick thinking. Our instinctive play is now shut down by highly organised defences and we need to take another look at things.
We've tried "rope a dope" and it doesn't work against well drilled teams. IMO we need to stretch other teams mentally. Challenge their decision making rather than their ability to work in a pattern. Mix up our attack with running lines and skilled kicking from hand.@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
Fosters team appears full of these vanilla backroom assistants at a time when we need to innovate to get backon the front foot of the international game.
think the are a team of coaches who would do well when surrounded by a good team, but you cant have a team of that type of person, an un-politically correct expression would be too many Indians, not enough Chiefs...
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@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
Fosters team appears full of these vanilla backroom assistants at a time when we need to innovate to get backon the front foot of the international game.
think the are a team of coaches who would do well when surrounded by a good team, but you cant have a team of that type of person, an un-politically correct expression would be too many Indians, not enough Chiefs...
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
Fosters team appears full of these vanilla backroom assistants at a time when we need to innovate to get backon the front foot of the international game.
think the are a team of coaches who would do well when surrounded by a good team, but you cant have a team of that type of person, an un-politically correct expression would be too many Indians, not enough Chiefs...
I thought Foster liked picking chiefs...
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
Fosters team appears full of these vanilla backroom assistants at a time when we need to innovate to get backon the front foot of the international game.
think the are a team of coaches who would do well when surrounded by a good team, but you cant have a team of that type of person, an un-politically correct expression would be too many Indians, not enough Chiefs...
I thought Foster liked picking chiefs...
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@kiwi_expat
except robinson had jason holland as his backs coach . support staff was not high@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat
except robinson had jason holland as his backs coach . support staff was not highDespite his questionable selections, Holland has actually built a decent reputation as an astute attack coach. Watch the Hurricanes backline closely, they have great organization and structure, they run creative & innovative angles/lines, and their pre-organized backline moves off set-pieces are consistently the best and most complex of all the NZ teams. On attack, their support play, skill-level, spatial awareness, etc.. is often best standard of our NZ sides, usually played at a greater tempo than other NZ sides as well.
Holland became the Hurricanes attack coach in 2016, their maiden title year, and has been the architect behind arguably the most effective attack in Super Rugby over successive years (considering their relatively under strength forward pack - compared to the platform laid for the Crusaders' backline).
Have a look at the individual coaching teams again, and compare them again objectively, without factoring in their cumulative levels of experience (as if that much flaunted "international experience" helped Foster appear any less of an incompetent buffoon over these last two All Black seasons).
Head coach: Scott Robertson > Ian Foster (obviously..)
Assistant coach, 2nd selector: MacDonald > Plumtree.
Forwards coach: Ryan > Plumtree.
Inside backs: Holland > Mooar.
Defense coach: McLeod (same) - Scott had aligned with both groups.
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@tim said in All Blacks 2022:
Mark Robinson appears to be an even more ordinary administrator than he was a player
