All Blacks 2022
-
@rotated said in All Blacks 2022:
@hooroo said in All Blacks 2022:
South Africa last world cup are case and point.
They sucked 12 months before the start of the world cup year and then bosh! Another World Cup.
(I think)
Two things though. The draw matters a lot here. Even a "very good" side can't seem to take the best shot of three top 5 teams in consecutive weeks. You need help either from the draw, a controversial decision or another team turning up spent playing their final a week before to make it through. So it's easier to navigate the tournament if you have a Japan or Fiji as your QF opponent, or even Argentina in 2011 after Carter went down.
The other thing is it is a lot easier to play above yourself if you resign yourself to the limitations of the side and focusing a narrow range of tactics which give you the best chance of victory on the day. It is hard to see an AB side doing this, unless maybe tipped over in the pool stages or in a major injury crisis in a key position like 2011.
Such a good point - our 2007 and 2019 RWC campaigns could have been so different had there not been big upsets during pool play.
Now, in 2019, we may very well have been beaten by England in a semi given their performance and the many issues with our 2019 side. But it would not have been because we put so much effort and attention into beating a "nemesis" in the QF
@junior said in All Blacks 2022:
Now, in 2019, we may very well have been beaten by England in a semi given their performance and the many issues with our 2019 side. But it would not have been because we put so much effort and attention into beating a "nemesis" in the QF
similar to Eddie and beating the AB's...guess he hoped to play them in the final and not have to worry about who was next!
-
@akan004 Love Fosters enthusiasm, "we are tracking really well" then in another breath "We have learning and growth to do". I really hate these politician terms.
-
@akan004 Love Fosters enthusiasm, "we are tracking really well" then in another breath "We have learning and growth to do". I really hate these politician terms.
@chimoaus said in All Blacks 2022:
@akan004 Love Fosters enthusiasm, "we are tracking really well" then in another breath "We have learning and growth to do". I really hate these politician terms.
Listening to the video in this post (https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/post/673448) it seems that's all he's got.
-
@junior said in All Blacks 2022:
Such a good point - our 2007 and 2019 RWC campaigns could have been so different had there not been big upsets during pool play.
Hell, every RWC the draw matters.
You see the path the eventual winners take, and it is so variable. SA 2007 got Fiji Argentina England to win. England had Aus France SA. They just aren't comparable challenges.
You cna't control it, but it has an influence. England would have had to beat Aus NZ SA in 2019 -- so it's swings and roundabouts.
Somehow, though, the draw hasn't favoured the ABs yet. Hopefully 2023 eh
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
Somehow, though, the draw hasn't favoured the ABs yet. Hopefully 2023 eh
Limiting it to the professional era I would say 1999 and 2011 were overly generous draws for us.
In 1999 the two other contenders in a three team tournament drew each other in the semi final and we had the easiest quarter final.
In 2011 we played three runners up from the pool round in the knockout stage which is would probably dwelled on more as good luck if the run of injuries at 10 had not happened.
Its somewhat subjective, particularly in 2015, but in the pro era we seem to either draw the most dangerous 2nd place team (2003, 2007, 2019, 2023) or least dangerous 2nd place team (1999, 2011, 2015).
-
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
Somehow, though, the draw hasn't favoured the ABs yet. Hopefully 2023 eh
Limiting it to the professional era I would say 1999 and 2011 were overly generous draws for us.
In 1999 the two other contenders in a three team tournament drew each other in the semi final and we had the easiest quarter final.
In 2011 we played three runners up from the pool round in the knockout stage which is would probably dwelled on more as good luck if the run of injuries at 10 had not happened.
Its somewhat subjective, particularly in 2015, but in the pro era we seem to either draw the most dangerous 2nd place team (2003, 2007, 2019, 2023) or least dangerous 2nd place team (1999, 2011, 2015).
@rotated said in All Blacks 2022:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
Somehow, though, the draw hasn't favoured the ABs yet. Hopefully 2023 eh
Limiting it to the professional era I would say 1999 and 2011 were overly generous draws for us.
In 1999 the two other contenders in a three team tournament drew each other in the semi final and we had the easiest quarter final.
In 2011 we played three runners up from the pool round in the knockout stage which is would probably dwelled on more as good luck if the run of injuries at 10 had not happened.
2011 is definitely our "SA 2007" draw. The Argies were ordinary, the Aussies not much better, and we got France who tripped their way to the final after we had already flogged them
Injuries and the weight of history almost conspired to beat us.
-
@rotated said in All Blacks 2022:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
Somehow, though, the draw hasn't favoured the ABs yet. Hopefully 2023 eh
Limiting it to the professional era I would say 1999 and 2011 were overly generous draws for us.
In 1999 the two other contenders in a three team tournament drew each other in the semi final and we had the easiest quarter final.
In 2011 we played three runners up from the pool round in the knockout stage which is would probably dwelled on more as good luck if the run of injuries at 10 had not happened.
2011 is definitely our "SA 2007" draw. The Argies were ordinary, the Aussies not much better, and we got France who tripped their way to the final after we had already flogged them
Injuries and the weight of history almost conspired to beat us.
-
@junior said in All Blacks 2022:
Such a good point - our 2007 and 2019 RWC campaigns could have been so different had there not been big upsets during pool play.
Hell, every RWC the draw matters.
You see the path the eventual winners take, and it is so variable. SA 2007 got Fiji Argentina England to win. England had Aus France SA. They just aren't comparable challenges.
You cna't control it, but it has an influence. England would have had to beat Aus NZ SA in 2019 -- so it's swings and roundabouts.
Somehow, though, the draw hasn't favoured the ABs yet. Hopefully 2023 eh
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
@junior said in All Blacks 2022:
Such a good point - our 2007 and 2019 RWC campaigns could have been so different had there not been big upsets during pool play.
Hell, every RWC the draw matters.
You see the path the eventual winners take, and it is so variable. SA 2007 got Fiji Argentina England to win. England had Aus France SA. They just aren't comparable challenges.
You cna't control it, but it has an influence. England would have had to beat Aus NZ SA in 2019 -- so it's swings and roundabouts.
Somehow, though, the draw hasn't favoured the ABs yet. Hopefully 2023 eh
I think 2011 was a pretty handy draw in hindsight
-
@mariner4life I still can't understand why Boks didn't set up for a drop goal to push the lead out to more than 3 points in the QF vs Aussie when they had the ball 10 metres or so out near the posts.
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life I still can't understand why Boks didn't set up for a drop goal to push the lead out to more than 3 points in the QF vs Aussie when they had the ball 10 metres or so out near the posts.
Because Bryce Lawrence.
Ask any Seffrican.
-
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life I still can't understand why Boks didn't set up for a drop goal to push the lead out to more than 3 points in the QF vs Aussie when they had the ball 10 metres or so out near the posts.
Because Bryce Lawrence.
Ask any Seffrican.
@booboo He really did stuff them though. Poidevin could have played the whole game on his knees and hands and he wouldn't have been penalized.
-
@booboo He really did stuff them though. Poidevin could have played the whole game on his knees and hands and he wouldn't have been penalized.
@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks 2022:
@booboo He really did stuff them though. Poidevin could have played the whole game on his knees and hands and he wouldn't have been penalized.
Every team needs a "we were robbed" game in a world cup. Lawrence gave the Boks theirs
-
@booboo He really did stuff them though. Poidevin could have played the whole game on his knees and hands and he wouldn't have been penalized.
@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks 2022:
@booboo He really did stuff them though. Poidevin could have played the whole game on his knees and hands and he wouldn't have been penalized.
Would have been a hell of an achievement for a 53yo. Can understand why the ref would go easy.
-
@rotated said in All Blacks 2022:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
Somehow, though, the draw hasn't favoured the ABs yet. Hopefully 2023 eh
Limiting it to the professional era I would say 1999 and 2011 were overly generous draws for us.
In 1999 the two other contenders in a three team tournament drew each other in the semi final and we had the easiest quarter final.
In 2011 we played three runners up from the pool round in the knockout stage which is would probably dwelled on more as good luck if the run of injuries at 10 had not happened.
2011 is definitely our "SA 2007" draw. The Argies were ordinary, the Aussies not much better, and we got France who tripped their way to the final after we had already flogged them
Injuries and the weight of history almost conspired to beat us.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
@rotated said in All Blacks 2022:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
Somehow, though, the draw hasn't favoured the ABs yet. Hopefully 2023 eh
Limiting it to the professional era I would say 1999 and 2011 were overly generous draws for us.
In 1999 the two other contenders in a three team tournament drew each other in the semi final and we had the easiest quarter final.
In 2011 we played three runners up from the pool round in the knockout stage which is would probably dwelled on more as good luck if the run of injuries at 10 had not happened.
2011 is definitely our "SA 2007" draw. The Argies were ordinary, the Aussies not much better, and we got France who tripped their way to the final after we had already flogged them
Injuries and the weight of history almost conspired to beat us.
It was easier for us - but I don't think at SA07 level. Argentina 2011 was >> Argentina 2007. But yep, 2011 favoured us, and at home too.
Australia were dangerous though, remember they had beaten us in Brisbane that year, and had Quade and Pocock. They really were a threat - but we were completely up for it. Arguably that cost us the intensity in the final.
-
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
@rotated said in All Blacks 2022:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
Somehow, though, the draw hasn't favoured the ABs yet. Hopefully 2023 eh
Limiting it to the professional era I would say 1999 and 2011 were overly generous draws for us.
In 1999 the two other contenders in a three team tournament drew each other in the semi final and we had the easiest quarter final.
In 2011 we played three runners up from the pool round in the knockout stage which is would probably dwelled on more as good luck if the run of injuries at 10 had not happened.
2011 is definitely our "SA 2007" draw. The Argies were ordinary, the Aussies not much better, and we got France who tripped their way to the final after we had already flogged them
Injuries and the weight of history almost conspired to beat us.
It was easier for us - but I don't think at SA07 level. Argentina 2011 was >> Argentina 2007. But yep, 2011 favoured us, and at home too.
Australia were dangerous though, remember they had beaten us in Brisbane that year, and had Quade and Pocock. They really were a threat - but we were completely up for it. Arguably that cost us the intensity in the final.
-
@nzzp The Argentinean team in 2007 topped their pool, beating France and Ireland to do so. That had a major implication for the ABs for their QF opponent.
Sure they lost to SA in the SF but thrashed France again in the 3rd/4th game.
-
great to see all the underperforming duds from this year getting long term deals. awesome!
because if they don't make the ABs that contract isn't worth the paper it's written on
-
@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks 2022:
@booboo He really did stuff them though. Poidevin could have played the whole game on his knees and hands and he wouldn't have been penalized.
Would have been a hell of an achievement for a 53yo. Can understand why the ref would go easy.
@booboo Haha, got my eras a bit mixed up. Pocock!
