All Blacks 2022
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@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2022:
Cully has some decent points in this one
I think Cully reads the fern and may have finally figured out that the analysis here is not always awful, there are some correct conclusions, and the shit talk here is laced with nonzero chance of providing actual insight.
The fact that we've had dad's army up front has been the key theme of basically every discussion here since 2019. When you look at the ages of those players, it is worrying.
It really makes you wonder why they have selected Karl, there is no way that he is the winning and losing of the test series, and it's three more tests when they can't look at Hodgman or even Williams.
Foster has said that Karl’s selection doesn’t necessarily mean he’s got the starting spot. Just that they felt it best to have at least one experienced loosehead there to help the others and as more of a known quantity.
If Moody was available he would be that guy.Isn't that worse? They don't plan to use him and aren't going to use 3/18 tests left to look at other options? There seems to be a lot of hope that Moody will come back, and given that he's been pretty poor, they are basically saying we'll have more of a Dad's army for the WC. Neat.
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2022:
Cully has some decent points in this one
I think Cully reads the fern and may have finally figured out that the analysis here is not always awful, there are some correct conclusions, and the shit talk here is laced with nonzero chance of providing actual insight.
The fact that we've had dad's army up front has been the key theme of basically every discussion here since 2019. When you look at the ages of those players, it is worrying.
It really makes you wonder why they have selected Karl, there is no way that he is the winning and losing of the test series, and it's three more tests when they can't look at Hodgman or even Williams.
Foster has said that Karl’s selection doesn’t necessarily mean he’s got the starting spot. Just that they felt it best to have at least one experienced loosehead there to help the others and as more of a known quantity.
If Moody was available he would be that guy.Isn't that worse? They don't plan to use him and aren't going to use 3/18 tests left to look at other options? There seems to be a lot of hope that Moody will come back, and given that he's been pretty poor, they are basically saying we'll have more of a Dad's army for the WC. Neat.
Calm down. There’s a middle ground too.
While it would be nice to think we can refresh the front row with these young guns what happens if they struggle? I’d say we’d all be claiming that the selectors were idiots for not having some experience to fall back on.
As for Moody, I really wasn’t a fan last year. My comment was more to say that either of him or Karl would have this role.
If Bower and Ross show they can hack it fine then by the end of the year we will likely see them plus DeGroot in place.
I’m not supporting the position but can see why they’ve done it. -
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2022:
Cully has some decent points in this one
I think Cully reads the fern and may have finally figured out that the analysis here is not always awful, there are some correct conclusions, and the shit talk here is laced with nonzero chance of providing actual insight.
The fact that we've had dad's army up front has been the key theme of basically every discussion here since 2019. When you look at the ages of those players, it is worrying.
It really makes you wonder why they have selected Karl, there is no way that he is the winning and losing of the test series, and it's three more tests when they can't look at Hodgman or even Williams.
Foster has said that Karl’s selection doesn’t necessarily mean he’s got the starting spot. Just that they felt it best to have at least one experienced loosehead there to help the others and as more of a known quantity.
If Moody was available he would be that guy.Isn't that worse? They don't plan to use him and aren't going to use 3/18 tests left to look at other options? There seems to be a lot of hope that Moody will come back, and given that he's been pretty poor, they are basically saying we'll have more of a Dad's army for the WC. Neat.
Calm down. There’s a middle ground too.
While it would be nice to think we can refresh the front row with these young guns what happens if they struggle? I’d say we’d all be claiming that the selectors were idiots for not having some experience to fall back on.
As for Moody, I really wasn’t a fan last year. My comment was more to say that either of him or Karl would have this role.
If Bower and Ross show they can hack it fine then by the end of the year we will likely see them plus DeGroot in place.
I’m not supporting the position but can see why they’ve done it.I'm zen as, this isn't a Chief's game.
I somewhat understand the rationale, but it screams 'we don't trust the looseheads we've brought through' and the issue is that Karl is not exactly playing that well either - he's hardly been seen and not the best LH at the Blues.
It's also not like the other guys there won't be experienced heads - this isn't NZA, they'll be able to run out with (at least) very experienced THs, two of the hookers are as old as (and Taukeiaho has one season of tests now, he's not a rookie), and most likely two of the locks will be as experienced as it gets. Too experienced, possibly.
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I'm zen as, this isn't a Chief's game.
I somewhat understand the rationale, but it screams 'we don't trust the looseheads we've brought through' and the issue is that Karl is not exactly playing that well either - he's hardly been seen and not the best LH at the Blues.
It's also not like the other guys there won't be experienced heads - this isn't NZA, they'll be able to run out with (at least) very experienced THs, two of the hookers are as old as (and Taukeiaho has one season of tests now, he's not a rookie), and most likely two of the locks will be as experienced as it gets. Too experienced, possibly.
@gt12 maybe it also screams out “we want to support you new players as much as we can, to be the best you can be”
If DeGroot needs a kick in the arse to sort out his fitness and they see him as the option they want post KT then I don’t see the problem except that there won’t be room for four loose heads if you include Hodgman -
@gt12 maybe it also screams out “we want to support you new players as much as we can, to be the best you can be”
If DeGroot needs a kick in the arse to sort out his fitness and they see him as the option they want post KT then I don’t see the problem except that there won’t be room for four loose heads if you include Hodgman@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 maybe it also screams out “we want to support you new players as much as we can, to be the best you can be”
If DeGroot needs a kick in the arse to sort out his fitness and they see him as the option they want post KT then I don’t see the problem except that there won’t be room for four loose heads if you include HodgmanWould your analysis change if Hodgman thought he was getting the Luatua treatment and signed overseas?
He's 28, seemingly not needed, and his value will much higher this year compared to next following the WC.
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@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 maybe it also screams out “we want to support you new players as much as we can, to be the best you can be”
If DeGroot needs a kick in the arse to sort out his fitness and they see him as the option they want post KT then I don’t see the problem except that there won’t be room for four loose heads if you include HodgmanWould your analysis change if Hodgman thought he was getting the Luatua treatment and signed overseas?
He's 28, seemingly not needed, and his value will much higher this year compared to next following the WC.
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 maybe it also screams out “we want to support you new players as much as we can, to be the best you can be”
If DeGroot needs a kick in the arse to sort out his fitness and they see him as the option they want post KT then I don’t see the problem except that there won’t be room for four loose heads if you include HodgmanWould your analysis change if Hodgman thought he was getting the Luatua treatment and signed overseas?
He's 28, seemingly not needed, and his value will much higher this year compared to next following the WC.
If not him then one of the others. There’s four good young looseheads in NZ and room for three in the ABs.
Sounds harsh but Hodgman might only have one RWC in him and when we turn around to look for a replacement one of the others has gone.
I really don’t have a preference which three of those four are in the squad at the end of the year but I also don’t assume that the selectors are doing this on a whim. They will have S&C data, scrum coach insight, game stats etc to work off. Maybe Hodgman comes in and DeGroot has to wait. Who knows? -
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 I’m more worried about lock. Whitelock and BBBR are creaking, Scott Barrett is incredibly dumb at times and Vaai is very green.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, we are way too close to being Wales in Black jerseys asking AWJ to round the track once last time.
It got them to a WC (edit: semi) final, so maybe that's Fozzie's plan.
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 I’m more worried about lock. Whitelock and BBBR are creaking, Scott Barrett is incredibly dumb at times and Vaai is very green.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, we are way too close to being Wales in Black jerseys asking AWJ to round the track once last time.
It got them to a WC final, so maybe that's Fozzie's plan.
Wales have never reached a WC Final.
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Sheesh it’s going to be a looooong couple of weeks before the first test team is named…
Bring back the Mertz vs Carlos or Barrett vs Cruden debates
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
Sheesh it’s going to be a looooong couple of weeks before the first test team is named…
Bring back the Mertz vs Carlos or Barrett vs Cruden debates
Nah man. KT vs literally anyone else is where’s it at.
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Starting 15 I think Fozzie will pick for the first test. He'll go with experience.
15 Jordie
14 Jordan
13 Reiko
12 Goodhue
11 Clarke
10 BB
9 Smith
8 Savea
7 Cane
6 Akira
5 Whitelock
4 Scott Barrett
3 Nepo
2 Samisoni (surely!)
1 Karl TFucking boring in a way.
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Starting 15 I think Fozzie will pick for the first test. He'll go with experience.
15 Jordie
14 Jordan
13 Reiko
12 Goodhue
11 Clarke
10 BB
9 Smith
8 Savea
7 Cane
6 Akira
5 Whitelock
4 Scott Barrett
3 Nepo
2 Samisoni (surely!)
1 Karl TFucking boring in a way.
@Frank said in All Blacks 2022:
Starting 15 I think Fozzie will pick for the first test. He'll go with experience.
15 Jordie
14 Jordan
13 Reiko
12 Goodhue
11 Clarke
10 BB
9 Smith
8 Savea
7 Cane
6 Akira
5 Whitelock
4 Scott Barrett
3 Nepo
2 Samisoni (surely!)
1 Karl TFucking boring in a way.
Agree, though I can see them going with Reece over Clarke.
And gee, I really wish they’d pick a genuine number 8, but we all know Savea is already locked into that spot.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 I’m more worried about lock. Whitelock and BBBR are creaking, Scott Barrett is incredibly dumb at times and Vaai is very green.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, we are way too close to being Wales in Black jerseys asking AWJ to round the track once last time.
It got them to a WC final, so maybe that's Fozzie's plan.
Wales have never reached a WC Final.
@Frank said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 I’m more worried about lock. Whitelock and BBBR are creaking, Scott Barrett is incredibly dumb at times and Vaai is very green.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, we are way too close to being Wales in Black jerseys asking AWJ to round the track once last time.
It got them to a WC final, so maybe that's Fozzie's plan.
Wales have never reached a WC Final.
Oops
And I was at the game too! -
Starting 15 I think Fozzie will pick for the first test. He'll go with experience.
15 Jordie
14 Jordan
13 Reiko
12 Goodhue
11 Clarke
10 BB
9 Smith
8 Savea
7 Cane
6 Akira
5 Whitelock
4 Scott Barrett
3 Nepo
2 Samisoni (surely!)
1 Karl TFucking boring in a way.
@Frank I more or less agree but think Cole’s will probably start
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@gt12 I’m more worried about lock. Whitelock and BBBR are creaking, Scott Barrett is incredibly dumb at times and Vaai is very green.
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@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
https://twitter.com/elliottnz/status/1536456945850195968?s=20&t=SGGzOqfrd_YHuv2RxvbXGg
From this interview it sounds like Karl Tu'inukuafe will be in the 4N squad too.
@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
https://twitter.com/elliottnz/status/1536456945850195968?s=20&t=SGGzOqfrd_YHuv2RxvbXGg
From this interview it sounds like Karl Tu'inukuafe will be in the 4N squad too.
Filling Joe's shoes.
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@Kirwan Vaai is green but we can’t start with either Whitelick and BBBR. He has a year to get up to speed while another year with the geriatrics is more decline. We won’t win with those two as our locks.
@broughie said in All Blacks 2022:
@Kirwan Vaai is green but we can’t start with either Whitelick and BBBR. He has a year to get up to speed while another year with the geriatrics is more decline. We won’t win with those two as our locks.
I wish I could find all the early 2015 posts as examples of writing off that “geriatric” legend McCaw.
I would agree that those two require managing along with giving the young guys more time and that is likely to happen. I’m not writing them off just yet though -
@NZbloke said in All Blacks 2022:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
@NZbloke said in All Blacks 2022:
Papallii has never had the pace to be a link player at 7
Are you on drugs ? ...do you even realize a 7 should be a fetcher, an openside has to have the pace to link up with the backs, especially with the speed the ABs play, that isn't Papalii, he's too slow for the position & weighs about 115kg, which is why he's better suited to 6 or 8.
Hahaha, good one Murray Dickhead.... yeah I've never played rugby and I'm on an array of drugs - yet my insight into rugby, players and coaching is still light years beyond your basic, clichéd dross. That must be embarrassing.
Papalii is quicker than Cane, sharpen up.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
@NZbloke said in All Blacks 2022:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
@NZbloke said in All Blacks 2022:
Papallii has never had the pace to be a link player at 7
Are you on drugs ? ...do you even realize a 7 should be a fetcher, an openside has to have the pace to link up with the backs, especially with the speed the ABs play, that isn't Papalii, he's too slow for the position & weighs about 115kg, which is why he's better suited to 6 or 8.
Hahaha, good one Murray Dickhead.... yeah I've never played rugby and I'm on an array of drugs - yet my insight into rugby, players and coaching is still light years beyond your basic, clichéd dross. That must be embarrassing.
Papalii is quicker than Cane, sharpen up.
You're a clown, as usual logic goes straight out the window with you - Cane is obviously the faster of the two, also he's 103kg, Whereas Papalii is 113kg.
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Greats Retallick and Whitelock need splitting up. Alternate bench cover. Need young lock
Coles thanks for being a great, redefined the position. At his peak best NZ hooker bar none. Samsoni starts
Papali’i has to start at 7
Jordie stays at 15
Havent felt this gloomy since '99
Coach and Captain arent the answer
Razor and/or MacDonald and Coventry
Papali’i captain -
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 maybe it also screams out “we want to support you new players as much as we can, to be the best you can be”
If DeGroot needs a kick in the arse to sort out his fitness and they see him as the option they want post KT then I don’t see the problem except that there won’t be room for four loose heads if you include HodgmanWould your analysis change if Hodgman thought he was getting the Luatua treatment and signed overseas?
He's 28, seemingly not needed, and his value will much higher this year compared to next following the WC.
If not him then one of the others. There’s four good young looseheads in NZ and room for three in the ABs.
Sounds harsh but Hodgman might only have one RWC in him and when we turn around to look for a replacement one of the others has gone.
I really don’t have a preference which three of those four are in the squad at the end of the year but I also don’t assume that the selectors are doing this on a whim. They will have S&C data, scrum coach insight, game stats etc to work off. Maybe Hodgman comes in and DeGroot has to wait. Who knows?@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 maybe it also screams out “we want to support you new players as much as we can, to be the best you can be”
If DeGroot needs a kick in the arse to sort out his fitness and they see him as the option they want post KT then I don’t see the problem except that there won’t be room for four loose heads if you include HodgmanWould your analysis change if Hodgman thought he was getting the Luatua treatment and signed overseas?
He's 28, seemingly not needed, and his value will much higher this year compared to next following the WC.
If not him then one of the others. There’s four good young looseheads in NZ and room for three in the ABs.
Sounds harsh but Hodgman might only have one RWC in him and when we turn around to look for a replacement one of the others has gone.
I really don’t have a preference which three of those four are in the squad at the end of the year but I also don’t assume that the selectors are doing this on a whim. They will have S&C data, scrum coach insight, game stats etc to work off. Maybe Hodgman comes in and DeGroot has to wait. Who knows?The obvious conclusion is that TWM don't think Hodgman's scrummaging is up to snuff at top test level.
He's excellent at other aspects, though. LH equivalent of Angus T.
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@Kirwan Vaai is green but we can’t start with either Whitelick and BBBR. He has a year to get up to speed while another year with the geriatrics is more decline. We won’t win with those two as our locks.
@broughie said in All Blacks 2022:
@Kirwan Vaai is green but we can’t start with either Whitelick and BBBR. He has a year to get up to speed while another year with the geriatrics is more decline. We won’t win with those two as our locks.
Retallick is only 31, hardly geriatric stage. I think there’s some good footy left in him. Whitelock’s form has been pretty good this season, my only concern is health for him. But if fit he still offers more now than others.
I think they’ll rotate a bit this year. Barrett will be a key guy for us this year and if he can keep his head should take his game to the next level.
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Starting 15 I think Fozzie will pick for the first test. He'll go with experience.
15 Jordie
14 Jordan
13 Reiko
12 Goodhue
11 Clarke
10 BB
9 Smith
8 Savea
7 Cane
6 Akira
5 Whitelock
4 Scott Barrett
3 Nepo
2 Samisoni (surely!)
1 Karl TFucking boring in a way.
@Frank said in All Blacks 2022:
Starting 15 I think Fozzie will pick for the first test. He'll go with experience.
15 Jordie
14 Jordan
13 Reiko
12 Goodhue
11 Clarke
10 BB
9 Smith
8 Savea
7 Cane
6 Akira
5 Whitelock
4 Scott Barrett
3 Nepo
2 Samisoni (surely!)
1 Karl TFucking boring in a way.
If they start Karl I think they can give Ofa a go. Sam W may still be injured so BR could slot in.
