All Blacks 2022

booboo

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:

@booboo I dont think his play at super has ever been an issue, even in black he could be effective if we had the right guys to compliment him

Its just about getting the balance right, when at present in black we seem to play 3 6.5s

Agree. But I can see Sam as an our and out 7, who we didn't have for much of last year's, and I think Ardie can become an out and out 8 (like So'oialo, or Scott Robertson for that matter).

Find a tight 6 that offers a bit (Akira in the first half of last year, Jacobsen or some other big munter) and add the 6.5 (Dalton, Blackadder) to the bench.

taniwharugby

@booboo none of those mentioned is an out and out 7, Ardie is probably the closest imo but I think in the eyes of our coaches, he is an 8 now, so that means Sam/Dalton at 7, Ardie is an 8 that can play 7 then Sotutu is probably our only specialist 8, with Jacobson more a 6/8 for me, while Akira is really only seen by them as a 6 but could be good at 8...

Haha round and round I go...

cgrant

Against the top nations (SA, France, Ireland), I'd like a 6/2 split on the bench : one hooker and two props, of course, plus one lock and two loose forwards. During the first half, when things are tight up front, the LF trio could be Ioane + Cane + Sowakula, then when things open up a bit (around the 50th minute), A. Savea and another LF (Blackadder, Sotutu, Papali'i ?) could be injected. Savea is lethal against tiring defenses and would be even more if he is fresh.

booboo

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:

@booboo none of those mentioned is an out and out 7, Ardie is probably the closest imo but I think in the eyes of our coaches, he is an 8 now, so that means Sam/Dalton at 7, Ardie is an 8 that can play 7 then Sotutu is probably our only specialist 8, with Jacobson more a 6/8 for me, while Akira is really only seen by them as a 6 but could be good at 8...

Haha round and round I go...

Sam Cane?

taniwharugby

@booboo he doesn't play like an out and out 7, more 6.5 imo

Bovidae

@bones said in All Blacks 2022:

Has no one else been impressed by Ainsley then?

Big, abrasive, hits hard on both sides of the ball and keeps busy. Scrummaging seems ok, but haven't paid much attention.

Can't be far off being eligible?

Is it as simple as a stand-down period after previously playing for Aust? I have been impressed with Ainsley's mobility and ball skills.

booboo

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:

@booboo he doesn't play like an out and out 7, more 6.5 imo

Yeah and nah.

It's like the definition of a true all rounder at cricket: could said player be picked as a specialist in either role?

I'd not be happy with Sam at 6. He's a 7 and 7 only. Any of Ardie, Papalii, Blackadder I'd be happy with at either 6 or 7 (if required).

gt12

@bones said in All Blacks 2022:

Has no one else been impressed by Ainsley then?

Big, abrasive, hits hard on both sides of the ball and keeps busy. Scrummaging seems ok, but haven't paid much attention.

Can't be far off being eligible?

I was going to bring him up last week when people were going on about Jager. I thought Ainsley did a good job on attack against the Chiefs (ran for 27 metres, 2nd highest forward) but did get penalized a couple of times, and against the Saders he ran for 14 metres (8 runs) making him the busiest prop. I only remember one time he got in real trouble and gave up a penalty but I like his involvements on attack.

Bones

@gt12 yeah he's got good hands too, seems a solid option taker.

broughie

@old-samurai-jack yep. He shows more than Sotutu and adds more in grafting yards than Ardie. He always is breaking the gain line. Ardie then to 7.

KiwiMurph

@bones said in All Blacks 2022:

Can't be far off being eligible?

Ainsley played for the Wallabies in 2018 so should be eligible this year for ABs (three year stand down period).

I agree he's been impressive.

Crazy Horse

@kiwimurph said in All Blacks 2022:

@bones said in All Blacks 2022:

Can't be far off being eligible?

Ainsley played for the Wallabies in 2018 so should be eligible this year for ABs (three year stand down period).

That still doesn't feel right to me.

kiwi_expat

I want to see brave selections in 2022, not afraid to leave out established players, something like this:

De Groot
Taukei'aho
Mafileo
Rettalick
Whitelock
Vaa'i
Papali'i
Ioane
Smith
Barrett
Ioane
Umaga-Jenson 1
Umaga-Jenson 2
Jordan
Barrett
Coles
Williams
A.Moli
Barrett
Savea
Fakatava
Mo'unga
Lienert-Brown

Greater emphasis on size and physicality in selecting the starting XV, and a lot less limited Crusaders players.

Crucial

@kiwi_expat I like the concept but you still have three old locks that are failing to make ground.

kiwi_expat

@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:

@kiwi_expat I like the concept but you still have three old locks that are failing to make ground.

Yeah, I just wanted to retain some experience in there somewhere. But Scooter isn't that old.

McWhannell, Parkinson, Ah Kuoi, Josh Lord, Sam Darry, Fabian Holland, all need time to mature.

Crucial

I just want players that fight for every inch and make the opposition do the same. The culling needs to be the passive runners and tacklers.

In that respect we need the likes of Ardie and Cane. Some argue that the balance is out but Cane at least makes runners fight for ground (as does Papali'i).while Ardie is all elbows and knees with great leg drive. I'd rather 5 metres from Ardie drawing in defenders to stop him than 7 metres from someone else that takes the tackle.
I get that AIoane can also attract defenders with a charge but his workrate and ground covered is nowhere near. Remember that the 8 is usually tasked with dropping back to support from a kick.

Definitely our old props need to go.
And there is no room at all for the likes of Bridge who cannot beat a tackle. Clarke and Reece can.

Edit: just checked some stats from ABs last year and Reece isn't much better than Bridge. Each only beat a defender once a game on average and it happens once every 7 runs.

Ioane beats defenders once every 4 runs at over 2 defenders beaten per game.
Jordan once every 4 runs at just under 2 per game
Dmac beat defenders once every 2.5 runs at 2 per game

The base numbers are arguable but are presumably consistent in the methodology of measuring so Jordan and Ioane are twice as good as Bridge and Reece.

Higgins

@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:

Dmac beat defenders once every 2.5 runs at 2 per game

Are there separate statistics for defenders beaten whilst running forwards and running sideways or are they just all lumped together?

Crucial

@higgins said in All Blacks 2022:

@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:

Dmac beat defenders once every 2.5 runs at 2 per game

Are there separate statistics for defenders beaten whilst running forwards and running sideways or are they just all lumped together?

That’s so 2018

gt12

@higgins said in All Blacks 2022:

@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:

Dmac beat defenders once every 2.5 runs at 2 per game

Are there separate statistics for defenders beaten whilst running forwards and running sideways or are they just all lumped together?

I thought @antipodean would have got in here with that comment first!

From the way he is going over here, I don't know that he'll want to come home. He's killing it, making heaps of cash, and is adored.

cgrant

@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:

I want to see brave selections in 2022, not afraid to leave out established players, something like this:

De Groot

Taukei'aho

Mafileo

Rettalick

Whitelock

Vaa'i

Papali'i

Ioane

Smith

Barrett

Ioane

Umaga-Jenson 1

Umaga-Jenson 2

Jordan

Barrett

Coles

Williams

A.Moli

Barrett

Savea

Fakatava

Mo'unga

Lienert-Brown

Greater emphasis on size and physicality in selecting the starting XV, and a lot less limited Crusaders players.

If you play a lock at 6, then I think Selby-Rickitt looks to be more suited to that role.
I am not convinced by Mafileo. He is a strong scrummager and is absent in the loose. Ainsley is the form THP in the country.

I'd go with :

De Groot
Taukei'aho
Ainsley
Retallick
Whitelock
Ioane
Cane / Papali'i
Sowakula
Smith
Mo'unga
Clarke
T. Umaga-Jensen / J. Barrett
Ioane / P. Umaga-Jensen
Jordan / Ioane
J. Barrett / Jordan

Coles
Hogdman
Lomax
Barrett
Savea
Weber
B. Barrett
Fainganu'uku

The Silver Fern

All Blacks 2022