All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider
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So I didn't manage to watch more than the first 20, the signal strength in Italy was a killer for lagging and I gave up.
Have trawled the thread, and as such have adopted the Fern majority position of outrage and disgust.
One question, I see a few talking about QT being dropped for this week, debating whether DH or JG should come in (or even JB). Is he injured?
Reading the thread, it sounds like QT had a shocker, but in his defense, he was outstanding last week and its never fun to play in the inside channels when the pack is getting dominated.
Why are we ready to send him to the sidelines already? Is "one bad game and you're out" the right message for these guys?
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So I didn't manage to watch more than the first 20, the signal strength in Italy was a killer for lagging and I gave up.
Have trawled the thread, and as such have adopted the Fern majority position of outrage and disgust.
One question, I see a few talking about QT being dropped for this week, debating whether DH or JG should come in (or even JB). Is he injured?
Reading the thread, it sounds like QT had a shocker, but in his defense, he was outstanding last week and its never fun to play in the inside channels when the pack is getting dominated.
Why are we ready to send him to the sidelines already? Is "one bad game and you're out" the right message for these guys?
@voodoo said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
So I didn't manage to watch more than the first 20, the signal strength in Italy was a killer for lagging and I gave up.
Have trawled the thread, and as such have adopted the Fern majority position of outrage and disgust.
One question, I see a few talking about QT being dropped for this week, debating whether DH or JG should come in (or even JB). Is he injured?
Reading the thread, it sounds like QT had a shocker, but in his defense, he was outstanding last week and its never fun to play in the inside channels when the pack is getting dominated.
Why are we ready to send him to the sidelines already? Is "one bad game and you're out" the right message for these guys?
Don’t think he was too bad myself. The worst back by a country Mile was the unfortunate Leicester. Just looked all at sea. I think he’ll learn from it and bounce back but he can’t go again this weekend.
As much as I’d like to see RTS get a game I don’t think this week is the right match now that it’s a decider. Has to be QT, Havili or JB, Goodhue at a pinch. One option would be to put RI back to 11 then you could have DH and JG in the centres.
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What I would select
Bower, Taukeiaho, Laulala
Retallick, Whitelock
Barrett, Sotutu, Savea
Smith, Barrett
Havili, Goodhue
Ioane, Jordan, Reece
res: Ross, Coles, Tuungafasi, Ioane, Papili, Fakatava, Mo’unga, Barrett
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
A million red cards would not have stopped what happened to AT on the weekend
I changed my mind on Angus. Highlights below, 4.47 in.
He advances, dips slightly and then stays upright. If he'd slowed down he'd probably get away with a yellow for being passive. But the movement forward is what's goign to get him in trouble with the laws they way they are.
also, all this and we don't talk about the shitty ruck play by Ireland lying long back from rucks. It's classic Gatland ploy, slowing ruck speed... cynical as shit, but right on the edge of legality. Smart play.
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
A million red cards would not have stopped what happened to AT on the weekend
I changed my mind on Angus. Highlights below, 4.47 in.
He advances, dips slightly and then stays upright. If he'd slowed down he'd probably get away with a yellow for being passive. But the movement forward is what's goign to get him in trouble with the laws they way they are.
also, all this and we don't talk about the shitty ruck play by Ireland lying long back from rucks. It's classic Gatland ploy, slowing ruck speed... cynical as shit, but right on the edge of legality. Smart play.
Me, too.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
A million red cards would not have stopped what happened to AT on the weekend
I changed my mind on Angus. Highlights below, 4.47 in.
He advances, dips slightly and then stays upright. If he'd slowed down he'd probably get away with a yellow for being passive. But the movement forward is what's goign to get him in trouble with the laws they way they are.
also, all this and we don't talk about the shitty ruck play by Ireland lying long back from rucks. It's classic Gatland ploy, slowing ruck speed... cynical as shit, but right on the edge of legality. Smart play.
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@No-Quarter he take a total of one step between the pass the "tackle"...thats a fraction of a second
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@No-Quarter he take a total of one step between the pass the "tackle"...thats a fraction of a second
The rapid step forward is with a view to tackling. He doesn't dip, misjudges completely and catches Ringrose with chin.
Ringrose has changed direction obviously before AT steps forward.
For me, twenty minute card, and then replacement.
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Leinster’s head coach on how Ireland defused the All Blacks’ front row defence. https://twitter.com/brettruganalyst/status/1546240815143460865?s=21&t=ZV-SzHUWAueOoPqayoPU-g
@MrDenmore said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Leinster’s head coach on how Ireland defused the All Blacks’ front row defence. https://twitter.com/brettruganalyst/status/1546240815143460865?s=21&t=ZV-SzHUWAueOoPqayoPU-g
O'Gara reckons AB/NZ man marking makes it easy to dupe with ball movement. He says NH midfields ball watch, and much less susceptible.
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@stodders said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@MrDenmore said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Leinster’s head coach on how Ireland defused the All Blacks’ front row defence. https://twitter.com/brettruganalyst/status/1546240815143460865?s=21&t=ZV-SzHUWAueOoPqayoPU-g
They targeted the NZ front row. That has to send alarm bells ringing in the NZ coaching team. The NZ front row didn't work as a unit. Too many disconnects (lack of communication, bad defensive reads or just poor work rate?) and Ireland took advantage.
Can something so fundamental be rectified in a week? I'm not sure. NZ need to focus on starving Ireland of possession and territory. And nullify Irish momentum on early phases, which is where Ireland have successfully targeted NZ's defence, which has struggled to reset fast enough.
NZ's scramble defence has been world class. You can't fault the effort in that regard. But Ireland's structured attack and running lines have manipulated and ripped open NZ's defence too many times for it to be anything but a structural problem.
NZ has some of the most gifted athletes in the rugby world who can pass and kick to their teammates with pinpoint accuracy from 30-40m
But that shouldn't be your go to. Very easy to defend against.
NZ justs needs to truck the ball up for multiple phases, tying in players with the speed and point of attack, then release the backs when there's space and/or an overlap.
Easier said than done. The NZ players appear to be under instructions to kick the ball if they don't make the break early on in the phases and the defensive line is set. It feels like it is ingrained in the players, especially the decision makers.
This is fine if you have several good tactical kickers in your team capable of turning the opposition around or who are adept at putting in contestable kicks. It also requires a good kick chase that moves in unison. Both would appear to be lacking right now in NZ's armoury.
So if your kicking game isn't up to scratch and you either can't reclaim the ball or your defence can't pressurise mistakes and you can't hold onto the ball for long periods because players keep getting isolated because they run away from support or support arrives too late...you have a problem.
NZ do have the players to be the leading team again. But the players currently at the coaching team's disposal are either not capable of carrying out the game plan being asked of them on a consistent basis or the game plan is not designed to bring out the best of the players available.
@stodders said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@stodders said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@MrDenmore said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Leinster’s head coach on how Ireland defused the All Blacks’ front row defence. https://twitter.com/brettruganalyst/status/1546240815143460865?s=21&t=ZV-SzHUWAueOoPqayoPU-g
They targeted the NZ front row. That has to send alarm bells ringing in the NZ coaching team. The NZ front row didn't work as a unit. Too many disconnects (lack of communication, bad defensive reads or just poor work rate?) and Ireland took advantage.
Can something so fundamental be rectified in a week? I'm not sure. NZ need to focus on starving Ireland of possession and territory. And nullify Irish momentum on early phases, which is where Ireland have successfully targeted NZ's defence, which has struggled to reset fast enough.
NZ's scramble defence has been world class. You can't fault the effort in that regard. But Ireland's structured attack and running lines have manipulated and ripped open NZ's defence too many times for it to be anything but a structural problem.
NZ has some of the most gifted athletes in the rugby world who can pass and kick to their teammates with pinpoint accuracy from 30-40m
But that shouldn't be your go to. Very easy to defend against.
NZ justs needs to truck the ball up for multiple phases, tying in players with the speed and point of attack, then release the backs when there's space and/or an overlap.
Easier said than done. The NZ players appear to be under instructions to kick the ball if they don't make the break early on in the phases and the defensive line is set. It feels like it is ingrained in the players, especially the decision makers.
This is fine if you have several good tactical kickers in your team capable of turning the opposition around or who are adept at putting in contestable kicks. It also requires a good kick chase that moves in unison. Both would appear to be lacking right now in NZ's armoury.
So if your kicking game isn't up to scratch and you either can't reclaim the ball or your defence can't pressurise mistakes and you can't hold onto the ball for long periods because players keep getting isolated because they run away from support or support arrives too late...you have a problem.
NZ do have the players to be the leading team again. But the players currently at the coaching team's disposal are either not capable of carrying out the game plan being asked of them on a consistent basis or the game plan is not designed to bring out the best of the players available.
The angle kicker has to work with is a factor as is the coordination of chase. Ireland have structures for that and practise it. Do we?
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So I didn't manage to watch more than the first 20, the signal strength in Italy was a killer for lagging and I gave up.
Have trawled the thread, and as such have adopted the Fern majority position of outrage and disgust.
One question, I see a few talking about QT being dropped for this week, debating whether DH or JG should come in (or even JB). Is he injured?
Reading the thread, it sounds like QT had a shocker, but in his defense, he was outstanding last week and its never fun to play in the inside channels when the pack is getting dominated.
Why are we ready to send him to the sidelines already? Is "one bad game and you're out" the right message for these guys?
@voodoo Tupaea had a bad case of the dropsies. Apart from that he was okay - and dropping ball is uncharacteristic for him, he doesn't drop a lot in general - but every turnover was costing us, so it was shithouse.
No need for the scrapheap just yet, it's not like he's 30+ and has been on a downward trajectory for the last 3 years. -
What I would select
Bower, Taukeiaho, Laulala
Retallick, Whitelock
Barrett, Sotutu, Savea
Smith, Barrett
Havili, Goodhue
Ioane, Jordan, Reece
res: Ross, Coles, Tuungafasi, Ioane, Papili, Fakatava, Mo’unga, Barrett
@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
What I would select
Bower, Taukeiaho, Laulala
Retallick, Whitelock
Barrett, Sotutu, Savea
Smith, Barrett
Havili, Goodhue
Ioane, Jordan, Reece
res: Ross, Coles, Tuungafasi, Ioane, Papili, Fakatava, Mo’unga, Barrett
Quite like the thinking, but would want Cane to start and Ardie off bench.
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@voodoo Tupaea had a bad case of the dropsies. Apart from that he was okay - and dropping ball is uncharacteristic for him, he doesn't drop a lot in general - but every turnover was costing us, so it was shithouse.
No need for the scrapheap just yet, it's not like he's 30+ and has been on a downward trajectory for the last 3 years.@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
and dropping ball is uncharacteristic for him
Is it? He seemed to have gotten better for the chiefs since making the ABs, but I have a vague memory of his handling being pretty poor at times for the chiefs before that.
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@voodoo Tupaea had a bad case of the dropsies. Apart from that he was okay - and dropping ball is uncharacteristic for him, he doesn't drop a lot in general - but every turnover was costing us, so it was shithouse.
No need for the scrapheap just yet, it's not like he's 30+ and has been on a downward trajectory for the last 3 years.@reprobate one of his drops was massively significant, him catching the ball was crucial to the move they had up thier sleeve (or were winging) the throw was nigh on perfect...but then dropping balls by people that don't normally usually points to other factors (bad luck, over thinking, lack of clarity, low confidence)
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
The head contact is always tough as AT was caught in a bad position, could he have done more? I don't know but the fact is under the rules AT was a red card.
That is the problem, the rules are his is def a Red, but given how that happened, how quickly that happened, I am not sure much could have been done to mitigate, for either party involved, and yep, what happens to him at the judiciary will be very interesting.
Again, if you read social media, people say Reds for that kind of contact is a must to protect players...people need to realise accidents happen, no matter if you do everything correctly and within your contrrol.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
The head contact is always tough as AT was caught in a bad position, could he have done more? I don't know but the fact is under the rules AT was a red card.
That is the problem, the rules are his is def a Red, but given how that happened, how quickly that happened, I am not sure much could have been done to mitigate, for either party involved, and yep, what happens to him at the judiciary will be very interesting.
Again, if you read social media, people say Reds for that kind of contact is a must to protect players...people need to realise accidents happen, no matter if you do everything correctly and within your contrrol.
Isn't that the mitigation?
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one thing the ABs need to get the ref to look at this week is how ireland slowed the game down in second half. players going down injured and moving slow to lineouts and scrums. was very south African like.
@ploughboy yeah certainly becoming a bit of an issue in the game.
MAybe need timeouts too...
Seriously though, was rather ironic when you think we were down a man, they'd be the ones wanting to speed the game up, they were slowing it down.
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@ploughboy yeah certainly becoming a bit of an issue in the game.
MAybe need timeouts too...
Seriously though, was rather ironic when you think we were down a man, they'd be the ones wanting to speed the game up, they were slowing it down.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@ploughboy yeah certainly becoming a bit of an issue in the game.
MAybe need timeouts too...
Seriously though, was rather ironic when you think we were down a man, they'd be the ones wanting to speed the game up, they were slowing it down.
yeah thought it was strange but probably shows how structured they play
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@reprobate one of his drops was massively significant, him catching the ball was crucial to the move they had up thier sleeve (or were winging) the throw was nigh on perfect...but then dropping balls by people that don't normally usually points to other factors (bad luck, over thinking, lack of clarity, low confidence)
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@reprobate one of his drops was massively significant, him catching the ball was crucial to the move they had up thier sleeve (or were winging) the throw was nigh on perfect
The bad drop from the long throw was poor. The other was from a pass behind him from Cane that went backwards and was recovered, so that wasn't all on Tupaea. Rieko had more overall turnovers in the game.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@reprobate one of his drops was massively significant, him catching the ball was crucial to the move they had up thier sleeve (or were winging) the throw was nigh on perfect
The bad drop from the long throw was poor. The other was from a pass behind him from Cane that went backwards and was recovered, so that wasn't all on Tupaea. Rieko had more overall turnovers in the game.
@Bovidae point I made in the following post is errors like that happen to teams/players when they lack clarity, are over thinking, low on confidence, all these things also mean things start to bounce away from you too...compounding issues.
