The Current State of Rugby
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@mariner4life said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Crucial said in The Current State of Rugby:
My question is whether in a pro environment with time and resource to plan and train forward runner plays the game looks more like NFL at times and also adds an avenue for errors, penalties and cards
i don't think so. i think ones with proper obstructions get pulled up.
What constitutes a 'proper obstruction'? Last week we had an example of a player trying to get across to where the ball was and having to run around a line of blockers that reduced his visibility and reaction time. When he got into the clear his reaction time was so little that he was collided with and red carded. The law doesn't take this into account .
My biggest gripe is forward runners that continue to be in front of the ball after the ball has left the area but 'block' the ability for other players to move where they want.
Maybe there needs to be an obligation to retreat as soon as you are put offside? -
@Crucial they only impeded LFs line of sight, not physically, if he had his wits about him he should have clattered into the blocker in the direction the ball was moving, may have drawn a penlty.
@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Crucial they only impeded LFs line of sight, not physically, if he had his wits about him he should have clattered into the blocker in the direction the ball was moving, may have drawn a penlty.
I was talking about Angus.
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@Crucial Itâs a legitimate point. When we hear Peyper saying that the tackler has the greater responsibility isnât that presuming that the team in possession isnât manufacturing the environment where uncontrolled collisions are more likely?
@JC said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Crucial Itâs a legitimate point. When we hear Peyper saying that the tackler has the greater responsibility isnât that presuming that the team in possession isnât manufacturing the environment where uncontrolled collisions are more likely?
It's a bit like the old Brumbies Larkham days. Larkham would 'trick' players into having to decide if he had passed or not by turning his back.
I remember the ref telling him once, after being flattened from behind without the ball, 'you created that, you take it' -
@Nepia sadly league deals with a number of things better than rugby now, and yet we seem to have only replicated a few of thier rules so far...
@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Nepia sadly league deals with a number of things better than rugby now, and yet we seem to have only replicated a few of thier rules so far...
Iâm not particularly fond of the ones we have replicated either ⌠but would like some others.
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@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@booboo and yet, if you do knock an intercept pass down, you ARE doing it deliberately solely to stop the play as you have zero chance to regather one you knock down, while if you propelled it upwards, which invariably given your momentum will see it go forward, you are in fact doing so with the intention to regather...just because you misjudged how far you could stretch or mis timed your flick, YC!
That's my take anyway, and I guess that is part of the problem, others see the same scenario differently.
Agree. Nigel Owens explanation is very clear but is is an explanation of how they rule it not what the law says. The two differ so there will always be problems until that is fixed.
The old 'you have to play by the laws except where we have decided something else' mess.If this is how they want things then write it in the law book. e.g. a player must not knock the ball forward intentionally to disrupt play or while attempting an intercept. Penalty
The YC only comes out when considered a cynical offence or a PT.
Simples.
Separates the 'intentional knock on' from the intercept which is the sticking point.
My problem with this though is that it completely dumbs down the game and makes intercepts a high risk option handing an advantage to the team in possession. The game is meant to be about contesting possession legally and intercepting the pass is legal.
@Crucial said in The Current State of Rugby:
My problem with this though is that it completely dumbs down the game and makes intercepts a high risk option handing an advantage to the team in possession. The game is meant to be about contesting possession legally and intercepting the pass is legal.
So do it right and you won't get penalised? Same as tackling innit?
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@NTA said in The Current State of Rugby:
@chimoaus said in The Current State of Rugby:
Surely the customers should dictate how a professional organisation structures its product. If you don't have people watching then your revenue is going to drop.
The 6N sells out stadiums every year.
Club rugby in Europe enjoys rude health.
I don't think they see a problem.I talk to club rugby guys all the time here.
They all agree there are colossal problems and fear for the game.
@MajorRage said in The Current State of Rugby:
@NTA said in The Current State of Rugby:
@chimoaus said in The Current State of Rugby:
Surely the customers should dictate how a professional organisation structures its product. If you don't have people watching then your revenue is going to drop.
The 6N sells out stadiums every year.
Club rugby in Europe enjoys rude health.
I don't think they see a problem.I talk to club rugby guys all the time here.
They all agree there are colossal problems and fear for the game.
What are the problems that people see up north? I can guess what they might be but I am really curious to hear what they are and if they are different to the issues seen down south.
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in terms of state of the rugby, the thing that keeps bouncing around my brain is that for a lot of professionals, modern rugby is playing the ref more than playing the actual game. Its not trying to come up with smart plays necessarily, it's trying to manufacture penalties or cards to try something high risk and/or get an advantage.
The advantage interpretation doesn't help. We should get 3 phases, and if you're not getting or about to get an advantage, blow it up and come back. 20 phases and come back for a penalty? Fark that shit sucks.
Finally, 20 m and possession has to be advantage. It's what you get if you kick to the sideline (and that's only a chance at possession). Would help to keep the game moving, reduce teh size of players, etc.
There's a lot broken in the sport at the moment.
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in terms of state of the rugby, the thing that keeps bouncing around my brain is that for a lot of professionals, modern rugby is playing the ref more than playing the actual game. Its not trying to come up with smart plays necessarily, it's trying to manufacture penalties or cards to try something high risk and/or get an advantage.
The advantage interpretation doesn't help. We should get 3 phases, and if you're not getting or about to get an advantage, blow it up and come back. 20 phases and come back for a penalty? Fark that shit sucks.
Finally, 20 m and possession has to be advantage. It's what you get if you kick to the sideline (and that's only a chance at possession). Would help to keep the game moving, reduce teh size of players, etc.
There's a lot broken in the sport at the moment.
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@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
Finally, 20 m and possession has to be advantage. It's what you get if you kick to the sideline
I like this, it's like every other team also has Barrett/Mounga/Hunt kicking for them.
@Bones said in The Current State of Rugby:
@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
Finally, 20 m and possession has to be advantage. It's what you get if you kick to the sideline
I like this, it's like every other team also has Barrett/Mounga/Hunt kicking for them.
And a bonus for those with Josh Ioane
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in terms of state of the rugby, the thing that keeps bouncing around my brain is that for a lot of professionals, modern rugby is playing the ref more than playing the actual game. Its not trying to come up with smart plays necessarily, it's trying to manufacture penalties or cards to try something high risk and/or get an advantage.
The advantage interpretation doesn't help. We should get 3 phases, and if you're not getting or about to get an advantage, blow it up and come back. 20 phases and come back for a penalty? Fark that shit sucks.
Finally, 20 m and possession has to be advantage. It's what you get if you kick to the sideline (and that's only a chance at possession). Would help to keep the game moving, reduce teh size of players, etc.
There's a lot broken in the sport at the moment.
@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
The advantage interpretation doesn't help. We should get 3 phases, and if you're not getting or about to get an advantage, blow it up and come back. 20 phases and come back for a penalty? Fark that shit sucks.
Especially if in the 22, you keep getting a new advantage, then the opposition get a warning, then they take a scrum or lineout, run through phases hoping to draw another penalty and that YC you said teams seem to play for...
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@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
The advantage interpretation doesn't help. We should get 3 phases, and if you're not getting or about to get an advantage, blow it up and come back. 20 phases and come back for a penalty? Fark that shit sucks.
Especially if in the 22, you keep getting a new advantage, then the opposition get a warning, then they take a scrum or lineout, run through phases hoping to draw another penalty and that YC you said teams seem to play for...
@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
The advantage interpretation doesn't help. We should get 3 phases, and if you're not getting or about to get an advantage, blow it up and come back. 20 phases and come back for a penalty? Fark that shit sucks.
Especially if in the 22, you keep getting a new advantage, then the opposition get a warning, then they take a scrum or lineout, run through phases hoping to draw another penalty and that YC you said teams seem to play for...
Long advantages have been a problem for me for some time
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@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
The advantage interpretation doesn't help. We should get 3 phases, and if you're not getting or about to get an advantage, blow it up and come back. 20 phases and come back for a penalty? Fark that shit sucks.
Especially if in the 22, you keep getting a new advantage, then the opposition get a warning, then they take a scrum or lineout, run through phases hoping to draw another penalty and that YC you said teams seem to play for...
@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
The advantage interpretation doesn't help. We should get 3 phases, and if you're not getting or about to get an advantage, blow it up and come back. 20 phases and come back for a penalty? Fark that shit sucks.
Especially if in the 22, you keep getting a new advantage, then the opposition get a warning, then they take a scrum or lineout, run through phases hoping to draw another penalty and that YC you said teams seem to play for...
Or you get that ref (think an aussie one?) that blows up immediately after a knock on.
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@stodders said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Steve said in The Current State of Rugby:
@mikedogz That clown Sumo Stevenson was on the Irish "second captains" podcast in the build up the first test. It's the most popular sports pod in Ireland.
They asked him about covid in the NZ camp and he came out with some of the biggest horseshit id ever heard.
He said he couldn't believe that the NZ team had gone and held an open training session in an area of NZ with the lowest vaccination rate. Blamed the players catching it on that. The podcast was on the same week 100k punters in Glastonbury were licking each others faces and climbing all over each other.
He is a woke virtue signalling melt who goes with the prevailing consensus even if it's completely wrong.
Clown
True. But he's right on some things too
@Steve Heâs got a point. You canât play elite aerobic sport with a respiratory infection. So surely youâd try and minimise the chance of any of the squad catching one in the lead up to a game with an immovable fixture date. Otherwise youâre taking a risk that you canât field a fit team.
Not everything is a conspiracy.
@JC The point is that covid is fucking everywhere, most of the rest of the world has moved on and Sumo was implying that the open training session was being held in a "dirty" place.
After 2 years of this nonsense you'd think we could move away from that narrative of unvaxed people being the great unwashed.
It sounded so performative from Sumo on the podcast. Clutching his pearls at the working class, "forgive them Irish pod for they know not what they do".
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@MajorRage said in The Current State of Rugby:
@NTA said in The Current State of Rugby:
@chimoaus said in The Current State of Rugby:
Surely the customers should dictate how a professional organisation structures its product. If you don't have people watching then your revenue is going to drop.
The 6N sells out stadiums every year.
Club rugby in Europe enjoys rude health.
I don't think they see a problem.I talk to club rugby guys all the time here.
They all agree there are colossal problems and fear for the game.
What are the problems that people see up north? I can guess what they might be but I am really curious to hear what they are and if they are different to the issues seen down south.
@junior said in The Current State of Rugby:
@MajorRage said in The Current State of Rugby:
@NTA said in The Current State of Rugby:
@chimoaus said in The Current State of Rugby:
Surely the customers should dictate how a professional organisation structures its product. If you don't have people watching then your revenue is going to drop.
The 6N sells out stadiums every year.
Club rugby in Europe enjoys rude health.
I don't think they see a problem.I talk to club rugby guys all the time here.
They all agree there are colossal problems and fear for the game.
What are the problems that people see up north? I can guess what they might be but I am really curious to hear what they are and if they are different to the issues seen down south.
Fear for the game - concussions, dementia etc.
Most are pro the cards, agree itâs ruining games but think itâs a necessary evil. Ppl not in favour of size reduction, everybody (bar the Jaapie) think the SA bomb squad is super dangerous. Absurd that SA donât start their best front row.
Rest is all mixed views but above I would say is consensus.
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@junior said in The Current State of Rugby:
@MajorRage said in The Current State of Rugby:
@NTA said in The Current State of Rugby:
@chimoaus said in The Current State of Rugby:
Surely the customers should dictate how a professional organisation structures its product. If you don't have people watching then your revenue is going to drop.
The 6N sells out stadiums every year.
Club rugby in Europe enjoys rude health.
I don't think they see a problem.I talk to club rugby guys all the time here.
They all agree there are colossal problems and fear for the game.
What are the problems that people see up north? I can guess what they might be but I am really curious to hear what they are and if they are different to the issues seen down south.
Fear for the game - concussions, dementia etc.
Most are pro the cards, agree itâs ruining games but think itâs a necessary evil. Ppl not in favour of size reduction, everybody (bar the Jaapie) think the SA bomb squad is super dangerous. Absurd that SA donât start their best front row.
Rest is all mixed views but above I would say is consensus.
@MajorRage
I think it's plain to see that the "product" is a bit shit at the moment.
The problem is the NH are revelling in their new found dominance.
So they are saying suck it up buttercup and we look like whingers down here.
Objectively the game has gone to rat shit. The Lions tour was abysmal and was an advertisement of a sport which has truly gone off the deep end, resplendent with shithousery, time wasting, injury feigning, water breaks and TMO interventions.
I think the game has long been on a slow decline due to commercialisation and money/winning becoming the end that justifies the means.
Project players, poaches, Gatland managing Lions , Farrell managing Ireland, Schmidt coaching Ireland, Rennie and Deans managing OZ, Jones managing England . Letting O Gara come to Crusaders etc. I prefer tribalism. Our lot vs your lot. The amount of intellectual IP we have exported on and off the field over the last decade is ridiculous.
Seeing Aki, Lowe and Gibson Park celebrating wildly against the team they grew up idolising left me cold. As soon as their careers are over they will move back to NZ just like CJ Stander did to SA. Mercenary stuff.
Its all gone too friendly. It has been the allblacks downfall too. They are too accessible now. Dressing room footage of all the opposition in having a beer and getting chummy. The aura is gone. They humanised themselves for social media clicks. They are too nice. Even the punditry on the breakdown and sky commentary falls over itself to be overly impartial. The train has over shot the station. They have over corrected to the point of insincerity. Trying not to be seen as arrogant New Zealanders etc. Good people make good allblacks. "no dickheads" policy.
That O'Mahoney comment to Cane should have been met with retribution at the time or in the 3rd test. NZ are carrying on like a bunch of fucking BETA's these days from the pundits, to the management, to the media, to the players. Nice guys finish fucking last. We could have done with a couple of dickheads over the series. We got towelled up in the physical exchanges.
On the cards. Anyone who goes down the dementia, CTE, concussion line of argument cannot be taken seriously unless they agree that the Ta'avao and Porter incidents should have been treated identically. I was reading cries of thuggery on Irish message boards and beyond about every NZ indiscretion and then lots of hand waving away about the Porter incident. People are trying to run with the hares and hunt with the hounds at the same time. If the head is sacrosanct then Porter should have walked. Foster is a clown but if I was him id be fucking seething sitting in the stand watching that. He is a national embarrassment but could have easily won the series based on those head clash decisions alone.
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@MajorRage
I think it's plain to see that the "product" is a bit shit at the moment.
The problem is the NH are revelling in their new found dominance.
So they are saying suck it up buttercup and we look like whingers down here.
Objectively the game has gone to rat shit. The Lions tour was abysmal and was an advertisement of a sport which has truly gone off the deep end, resplendent with shithousery, time wasting, injury feigning, water breaks and TMO interventions.
I think the game has long been on a slow decline due to commercialisation and money/winning becoming the end that justifies the means.
Project players, poaches, Gatland managing Lions , Farrell managing Ireland, Schmidt coaching Ireland, Rennie and Deans managing OZ, Jones managing England . Letting O Gara come to Crusaders etc. I prefer tribalism. Our lot vs your lot. The amount of intellectual IP we have exported on and off the field over the last decade is ridiculous.
Seeing Aki, Lowe and Gibson Park celebrating wildly against the team they grew up idolising left me cold. As soon as their careers are over they will move back to NZ just like CJ Stander did to SA. Mercenary stuff.
Its all gone too friendly. It has been the allblacks downfall too. They are too accessible now. Dressing room footage of all the opposition in having a beer and getting chummy. The aura is gone. They humanised themselves for social media clicks. They are too nice. Even the punditry on the breakdown and sky commentary falls over itself to be overly impartial. The train has over shot the station. They have over corrected to the point of insincerity. Trying not to be seen as arrogant New Zealanders etc. Good people make good allblacks. "no dickheads" policy.
That O'Mahoney comment to Cane should have been met with retribution at the time or in the 3rd test. NZ are carrying on like a bunch of fucking BETA's these days from the pundits, to the management, to the media, to the players. Nice guys finish fucking last. We could have done with a couple of dickheads over the series. We got towelled up in the physical exchanges.
On the cards. Anyone who goes down the dementia, CTE, concussion line of argument cannot be taken seriously unless they agree that the Ta'avao and Porter incidents should have been treated identically. I was reading cries of thuggery on Irish message boards and beyond about every NZ indiscretion and then lots of hand waving away about the Porter incident. People are trying to run with the hares and hunt with the hounds at the same time. If the head is sacrosanct then Porter should have walked. Foster is a clown but if I was him id be fucking seething sitting in the stand watching that. He is a national embarrassment but could have easily won the series based on those head clash decisions alone.
@Steve said in The Current State of Rugby:
@MajorRage
I think it's plain to see that the "product" is a bit shit at the moment.
The problem is the NH are revelling in their new found dominance.
So they are saying suck it up buttercup and we look like whingers down here.
Objectively the game has gone to rat shit. The Lions tour was abysmal and was an advertisement of a sport which has truly gone off the deep end, resplendent with shithousery, time wasting, injury feigning, water breaks and TMO interventions.
I think the game has long been on a slow decline due to commercialisation and money/winning becoming the end that justifies the means.
Project players, poaches, Gatland managing Lions , Farrell managing Ireland, Schmidt coaching Ireland, Rennie and Deans managing OZ, Jones managing England . Letting O Gara come to Crusaders etc. I prefer tribalism. Our lot vs your lot. The amount of intellectual IP we have exported on and off the field over the last decade is ridiculous.
Seeing Aki, Lowe and Gibson Park celebrating wildly against the team they grew up idolising left me cold. As soon as their careers are over they will move back to NZ just like CJ Stander did to SA. Mercenary stuff.
Its all gone too friendly. It has been the allblacks downfall too. They are too accessible now. Dressing room footage of all the opposition in having a beer and getting chummy. The aura is gone. They humanised themselves for social media clicks. They are too nice. Even the punditry on the breakdown and sky commentary falls over itself to be overly impartial. The train has over shot the station. They have over corrected to the point of insincerity. Trying not to be seen as arrogant New Zealanders etc. Good people make good allblacks. "no dickheads" policy.
That O'Mahoney comment to Cane should have been met with retribution at the time or in the 3rd test. NZ are carrying on like a bunch of fucking BETA's these days from the pundits, to the management, to the media, to the players. Nice guys finish fucking last. We could have done with a couple of dickheads over the series. We got towelled up in the physical exchanges.
On the cards. Anyone who goes down the dementia, CTE, concussion line of argument cannot be taken seriously unless they agree that the Ta'avao and Porter incidents should have been treated identically. I was reading cries of thuggery on Irish message boards and beyond about every NZ indiscretion and then lots of hand waving away about the Porter incident. People are trying to run with the hares and hunt with the hounds at the same time. If the head is sacrosanct then Porter should have walked. Foster is a clown but if I was him id be fucking seething sitting in the stand watching that. He is a national embarrassment but could have easily won the series based on those head clash decisions alone.
If you thought the NZ v Ireland series was a bit shit, rugby union is not for you anymore
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@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
The advantage interpretation doesn't help. We should get 3 phases, and if you're not getting or about to get an advantage, blow it up and come back. 20 phases and come back for a penalty? Fark that shit sucks.
Especially if in the 22, you keep getting a new advantage, then the opposition get a warning, then they take a scrum or lineout, run through phases hoping to draw another penalty and that YC you said teams seem to play for...
Long advantages have been a problem for me for some time
@canefan was very noticeable in the Boks Wales game that advantage was interminable. Couldnât see what principle the ref was applying, if there was one. It encourages cynical play - the opposite of the point of advantage.
One aspect of the last few games that Iâve enjoyed is refs allowing a real contest at the ruck and allowing weight of bodies to tell. Fair few rucks turned over by piling bodies in, even if they end up off their feet past the ball.
Makes sense to me. Almost impossible to keep your feet when youâve steamrolled the opposition. And makes the ruck a contest after the absurd knee on the ground tackle call.
