Foster, Robertson etc
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@Dan54 Cripes, the silliness of your arguments are mind-blowing. I understand the logical arguments against Razor and they are legit but bloody hell......
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Dan54 Cripes, the silliness of your arguments are mind-blowing. I understand the logical arguments against Razor and they are legit but bloody hell......
Get a bloody humour transplant, it was obviously a pisstake FFS!!!
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@Dan54 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@ploughboy said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@nostrildamus said in Drua v Crusaders:
@Yeahtheboys said in Drua v Crusaders:
Is Scott Robertson still the best coach thats ever been?
Maybe winning with the most stacked squad in history DOESNT mean youre the best coach...
If he can take a squad like this and do something then he may be in the picture for the AB's, have yet to see him take an underdog team / squad and make it better.
He took Blackadder's squad who weren't capable of winning super rugby and who had lost experienced ABs ... and I think many posters would agree made it better.
Also a lot of Crusaders have become Ab's during Razor's time as coach,They were not all AB's from somewhere else.
A large number have won titles under Razor and under Foster well FFS there is the difference.Huge influence of the Saders / Ta$man influence during that time. I think I count 15/49 new ABs from Saders country and that overall much of the credit should go to the organization. I think 5 of them are through Ta$man/academy rather than Canterbury/academy, indicating it is much more than Razor finishing the job.
Mo’unga is the best example of your argument alongside Goodhue, Bridge, and more recently Grace and Newell.
However, they recruited Bower and Reece. Whether they would have gone further elsewhere is an interesting question.
From my perspective, I think it is more about the quality of the recruitment/development in the backs, and the quality of the squad overall - players like Hall were really fantastic at the Super level and the Saders often had two players who could interchange (eg, Hall, Drummond).
I’m not trying to take away from Razor’s achievements but I’m not convinced he needs that much credit for making these guys ABs. Firstly, it appears to be much more than the coach but rather the organization itself. Secondly, success helps recruitment and helps players get a better chance of making the next level.
Agreed but Razor drives those recruitment and Academy programmes and is at the fore front of Recruitment which is another strong string to his bow.
Not just a coach but a great identifier of Talent and putting the finishing touches to make them AB's.Some credit due there.is there anything he carnt do?
Beat the Drua?
Well he did that last year so he can.
Yep and being the equal of Drua is where his record will stand, funny how Foster was so bad because ABs lost to Pumas lol
Not a good comparison given Foster lost to the Pumas twice by over 7 points after naming full strength All Black teams on both occasions.
Crusaders lost by 1 point after rotating the side, not to mention injuries to 9 players & having to field 3 players from the development squad.
A rather inconsequential result within the context of 15 Rounds as they were clearly prioritizing Blues game this week and with it being played in March daytime 36c peak humidity both teams couldn't string together any continuity whatsoever making it an utterly mangled game to watch.
One of the most turgid displays of rugby I've seen, embarrassing to be scheduling so early in day in one of hottest months of the year in peak humidity, the Crusaders players looked like they weren't awakened to conditions until game was almost done.
Last year Drua didn't play any games in Fiji due to Covid until the winter months, where they lost 34-35, to what might add was a much stronger & more experienced Chiefs side than the Crusaders rolled out last weekend:
https://www.rugby.com.au/match-centre/205/2022/523152?tab=Player-Lineup
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@kiwi_expat read above reply to Sumurai, this thread is so old hat, you I really believed that most are taking the proverbial, and not sure how anyone is taking it very seriously .
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@Dan54 Poe's law?
@nzzp said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Dan54 Poe's law?
I went back and had a look. I couldn't tell it was a meant to be funny....
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@nzzp said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Dan54 Poe's law?
I went back and had a look. I couldn't tell it was a meant to be funny....
@canefan said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@nzzp said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Dan54 Poe's law?
I went back and had a look. I couldn't tell it was a meant to be funny....
to be fair, neither did I. And that's kind of the point - if it was satire, it fooled a whole lotta people
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@nzzp said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Dan54 Poe's law?
I went back and had a look. I couldn't tell it was a meant to be funny....
@canefan said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@nzzp said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Dan54 Poe's law?
I went back and had a look. I couldn't tell it was a meant to be funny....
Well I have to admit I must try and put laughing face on posts who don't realise that I wouldn't blame Razor for Crusader's dropping a game, I don't normally blame the coach as it's normally the players that lose the games anyway.
Anyway from now on I promise to try and remember that having a half hearted pisstake is going to go well over some's heads.
So apologies to those posters. I sure many of you will be trying to check the height weight ratio that booboo mnetions a couple of posts back!! -
@BerniesCorner the key question about it all, is will we get to 6,000 posts on the topic before then?
@taniwharugby said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@BerniesCorner the key question about it all, is will we get to 6,000 posts on the topic before then?
so 2 weeks, almost 400 posts, we gonna get to 6,000 easy, I'd wager 5,000 of them are saying the same thing over and over, making this the most repetitive thread ever, surely
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Dan54 Cripes, the silliness of your arguments are mind-blowing. I understand the logical arguments against Razor and they are legit but bloody hell......
Get a bloody humour transplant, it was obviously a pisstake FFS!!!
@Dan54 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Dan54 Cripes, the silliness of your arguments are mind-blowing. I understand the logical arguments against Razor and they are legit but bloody hell......
Get a bloody humour transplant, it was obviously a pisstake FFS!!!
Uh huh.... It is very telling I can't tell the difference between "a pisstake" and your other arguments in this thread:face_with_raised_eyebrow:
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@Dan54 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Dan54 Cripes, the silliness of your arguments are mind-blowing. I understand the logical arguments against Razor and they are legit but bloody hell......
Get a bloody humour transplant, it was obviously a pisstake FFS!!!
Uh huh.... It is very telling I can't tell the difference between "a pisstake" and your other arguments in this thread:face_with_raised_eyebrow:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Dan54 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Dan54 Cripes, the silliness of your arguments are mind-blowing. I understand the logical arguments against Razor and they are legit but bloody hell......
Get a bloody humour transplant, it was obviously a pisstake FFS!!!
Uh huh.... It is very telling I can't tell the difference between "a pisstake" and your other arguments in this thread:face_with_raised_eyebrow:
Repurposing?
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im going to say it...blackadder wasn't as bad a coach as some would have you believe, still had over 60% win record, runners up twice and 4 more playoffs, yes, he was missing what was needed to win it but that 2011 final appearance was a huge achievement on the back of the earthquakes, (no real home games etc) for example
Razor definitely didn't start on the back foot, he has grown significantly but on what was already a pretty string foundation between the crusaders organisation in general and a pretty healthy team (if not champion) under blackadder
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@Dan54 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Dan54 Cripes, the silliness of your arguments are mind-blowing. I understand the logical arguments against Razor and they are legit but bloody hell......
Get a bloody humour transplant, it was obviously a pisstake FFS!!!
Uh huh.... It is very telling I can't tell the difference between "a pisstake" and your other arguments in this thread:face_with_raised_eyebrow:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Dan54 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Dan54 Cripes, the silliness of your arguments are mind-blowing. I understand the logical arguments against Razor and they are legit but bloody hell......
Get a bloody humour transplant, it was obviously a pisstake FFS!!!
Uh huh.... It is very telling I can't tell the difference between "a pisstake" and your other arguments in this thread:face_with_raised_eyebrow:
That could I actually think most of the thread is a bit of a pisstake,or could say something about one of us anyway mate.
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im going to say it...blackadder wasn't as bad a coach as some would have you believe, still had over 60% win record, runners up twice and 4 more playoffs, yes, he was missing what was needed to win it but that 2011 final appearance was a huge achievement on the back of the earthquakes, (no real home games etc) for example
Razor definitely didn't start on the back foot, he has grown significantly but on what was already a pretty string foundation between the crusaders organisation in general and a pretty healthy team (if not champion) under blackadder
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
im going to say it...blackadder wasn't as bad a coach as some would have you believe, still had over 60% win record, runners up twice and 4 more playoffs, yes, he was missing what was needed to win it but that 2011 final appearance was a huge achievement on the back of the earthquakes, (no real home games etc) for example
Razor definitely didn't start on the back foot, he has grown significantly but on what was already a pretty string foundation between the crusaders organisation in general and a pretty healthy team (if not champion) under blackadder
Sorry I can't agree with that,His recruitment was very bad though that period the depth was weak due to no vision/Selecting journeyman who were not contributing very much.
He also lost the AB's in the squad who didn't really take to his coaching. It was the way we played as well some strange game plans in place during his coaching.
I think it was mess during Blackadder's coaching time. -
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
im going to say it...blackadder wasn't as bad a coach as some would have you believe, still had over 60% win record, runners up twice and 4 more playoffs, yes, he was missing what was needed to win it but that 2011 final appearance was a huge achievement on the back of the earthquakes, (no real home games etc) for example
Razor definitely didn't start on the back foot, he has grown significantly but on what was already a pretty string foundation between the crusaders organisation in general and a pretty healthy team (if not champion) under blackadder
Sorry I can't agree with that,His recruitment was very bad though that period the depth was weak due to no vision/Selecting journeyman who were not contributing very much.
He also lost the AB's in the squad who didn't really take to his coaching. It was the way we played as well some strange game plans in place during his coaching.
I think it was mess during Blackadder's coaching time.@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
im going to say it...blackadder wasn't as bad a coach as some would have you believe, still had over 60% win record, runners up twice and 4 more playoffs, yes, he was missing what was needed to win it but that 2011 final appearance was a huge achievement on the back of the earthquakes, (no real home games etc) for example
Razor definitely didn't start on the back foot, he has grown significantly but on what was already a pretty string foundation between the crusaders organisation in general and a pretty healthy team (if not champion) under blackadder
Sorry I can't agree with that,His recruitment was very bad though that period the depth was weak due to no vision/Selecting journeyman who were not contributing very much.
He also lost the AB's in the squad who didn't really take to his coaching.It was the way we played as well some strange game plans in place during his coaching.
I think it was mess during Blackadder's coaching time.IIRC he had a superior squad than most of Razor's
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@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
im going to say it...blackadder wasn't as bad a coach as some would have you believe, still had over 60% win record, runners up twice and 4 more playoffs, yes, he was missing what was needed to win it but that 2011 final appearance was a huge achievement on the back of the earthquakes, (no real home games etc) for example
Razor definitely didn't start on the back foot, he has grown significantly but on what was already a pretty string foundation between the crusaders organisation in general and a pretty healthy team (if not champion) under blackadder
Sorry I can't agree with that,His recruitment was very bad though that period the depth was weak due to no vision/Selecting journeyman who were not contributing very much.
He also lost the AB's in the squad who didn't really take to his coaching.It was the way we played as well some strange game plans in place during his coaching.
I think it was mess during Blackadder's coaching time.IIRC he had a superior squad than most of Razor's
@canefan said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
im going to say it...blackadder wasn't as bad a coach as some would have you believe, still had over 60% win record, runners up twice and 4 more playoffs, yes, he was missing what was needed to win it but that 2011 final appearance was a huge achievement on the back of the earthquakes, (no real home games etc) for example
Razor definitely didn't start on the back foot, he has grown significantly but on what was already a pretty string foundation between the crusaders organisation in general and a pretty healthy team (if not champion) under blackadder
Sorry I can't agree with that,His recruitment was very bad though that period the depth was weak due to no vision/Selecting journeyman who were not contributing very much.
He also lost the AB's in the squad who didn't really take to his coaching.It was the way we played as well some strange game plans in place during his coaching.
I think it was mess during Blackadder's coaching time.IIRC he had a superior squad than most of Razor's
The top 25/26 yes no thanks to Blackadder they were in the system already,but we had some shit 3rd stringers selected who just were not up to it he was terrible at talent spotting.
I got dizzy during that period watching our players go from one sideline to the other and not going forward very often due to old no vision game plans. -
im going to say it...blackadder wasn't as bad a coach as some would have you believe, still had over 60% win record, runners up twice and 4 more playoffs, yes, he was missing what was needed to win it but that 2011 final appearance was a huge achievement on the back of the earthquakes, (no real home games etc) for example
Razor definitely didn't start on the back foot, he has grown significantly but on what was already a pretty string foundation between the crusaders organisation in general and a pretty healthy team (if not champion) under blackadder
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
im going to say it...blackadder wasn't as bad a coach as some would have you believe, still had over 60% win record, runners up twice and 4 more playoffs, yes, he was missing what was needed to win it but that 2011 final appearance was a huge achievement on the back of the earthquakes, (no real home games etc) for example
Maybe, but he didn't win a title with the most deep Super squads ever, namely - 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015.
Nadolo, Fruean, Slade, Tom Taylor, Blyeendaal, McCaw, Carter, Flynn, Bird, Laulala, 2 Whitelocks, among those who left after 2015.
2011 final 18/23 of Crusader's lineup were internationals, Marshall was only player in the starting 15 who wasn't an All Black.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Super_Rugby_Final#Match_details
2014 final was even more, 21/23 players named in final, only Jimmy Tupou & Ben Funnell on the bench weren't ever capped internationally.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Super_Rugby_Final#Match_details
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@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
im going to say it...blackadder wasn't as bad a coach as some would have you believe, still had over 60% win record, runners up twice and 4 more playoffs, yes, he was missing what was needed to win it but that 2011 final appearance was a huge achievement on the back of the earthquakes, (no real home games etc) for example
Maybe, but he didn't win a title with the most deep Super squads ever, namely - 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015.
Nadolo, Fruean, Slade, Tom Taylor, Blyeendaal, McCaw, Carter, Flynn, Bird, Laulala, 2 Whitelocks, among those who left after 2015.
2011 final 18/23 of Crusader's lineup were internationals, Marshall was only player in the starting 15 who wasn't an All Black.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Super_Rugby_Final#Match_details
2014 final was even more, 21/23 players named in final, only Jimmy Tupou & Ben Funnell on the bench weren't ever capped internationally.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Super_Rugby_Final#Match_details
@kiwi_expat all fair points and i was quite careful to point out he was missing that last little bit needed....but
every team thats ever made a final thinks they have a chance to nicking it, no matter who theyre up against, because anything can happen in a final, people play above themselves etc
all i feel is there is somewhere between "world beater" and "should never coach again" and i think the expectations for the crusaders are just a bit higher than other teams
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im going to say it...blackadder wasn't as bad a coach as some would have you believe, still had over 60% win record, runners up twice and 4 more playoffs, yes, he was missing what was needed to win it but that 2011 final appearance was a huge achievement on the back of the earthquakes, (no real home games etc) for example
Razor definitely didn't start on the back foot, he has grown significantly but on what was already a pretty string foundation between the crusaders organisation in general and a pretty healthy team (if not champion) under blackadder
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
im going to say it...blackadder wasn't as bad a coach as some would have you believe, still had over 60% win record, runners up twice and 4 more playoffs, yes, he was missing what was needed to win it but that 2011 final appearance was a huge achievement on the back of the earthquakes, (no real home games etc) for example
Razor definitely didn't start on the back foot, he has grown significantly but on what was already a pretty string foundation between the crusaders organisation in general and a pretty healthy team (if not champion) under blackadder
Considering that sounds a lot like how the ABs are ATM, it is a good sign!
