All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship

[Mackerzzzz]

@mariner4life said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@Mackerzzzz said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@Mackerzzzz said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

What about this:

Props: Ofa Tu'ungafasi, N Laulala, T Lomax, G Bower, E De Groot, A Ross
Hooker: S Taukei'aho, C Taylor, A Aumua
Locks: S Whitelock, S Barrett, T Vaii, J Goodhue*
Flanker/No8s: A Savea, S Cane, D Papalii, C Grace, L Jacobson, H Sotutu
Scrunhalfs: A Smith, F Christie, F Fakatava
First fives: B Barrett, R Mo'unga, (Either DMac or Perofeta depending on eligibility)
Centres: R Ioane, J Goodhue, RTS, Q Tupaea, D Havili
Wingers: C Clarke, S Reece, L Fainga'anuku, M Telea*
Fullbacks: W Jordan, J Barrett

lol no

Who over who then?

well lets go you've essentially got rid of no one except 1 prop (who should have gone anyway) and Dane Coles
the injured locks
And arguably our best player from saturday

revo-fucking-lutionary

Who?

[broughie]

@Crazy-Horse I would not know. I just know he is not a 2 five.

[Kiwiwomble]

we should have got Ash Dixon in there a couple of years ago, leader (captain?), solid lineout and scrum and managed to make an average highlanders forward pack into a lineout maul weapon, not long term but could have brought some real stability to the forwards through the next RWC

[MN5]

@Mackerzzzz said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@Mackerzzzz said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@Mackerzzzz said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

What about this:

Props: Ofa Tu'ungafasi, N Laulala, T Lomax, G Bower, E De Groot, A Ross
Hooker: S Taukei'aho, C Taylor, A Aumua
Locks: S Whitelock, S Barrett, T Vaii, J Goodhue*
Flanker/No8s: A Savea, S Cane, D Papalii, C Grace, L Jacobson, H Sotutu
Scrunhalfs: A Smith, F Christie, F Fakatava
First fives: B Barrett, R Mo'unga, (Either DMac or Perofeta depending on eligibility)
Centres: R Ioane, J Goodhue, RTS, Q Tupaea, D Havili
Wingers: C Clarke, S Reece, L Fainga'anuku, M Telea*
Fullbacks: W Jordan, J Barrett

lol no

Who over who then?

well lets go you've essentially got rid of no one except 1 prop (who should have gone anyway) and Dane Coles
the injured locks
And arguably our best player from saturday

revo-fucking-lutionary

Who?

He must mean Akira Ioane. How the hell do you drop him after that try ?

[gt12]

@Mackerzzzz said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@Mackerzzzz said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@Mackerzzzz said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

What about this:

Props: Ofa Tu'ungafasi, N Laulala, T Lomax, G Bower, E De Groot, A Ross
Hooker: S Taukei'aho, C Taylor, A Aumua
Locks: S Whitelock, S Barrett, T Vaii, J Goodhue*
Flanker/No8s: A Savea, S Cane, D Papalii, C Grace, L Jacobson, H Sotutu
Scrunhalfs: A Smith, F Christie, F Fakatava
First fives: B Barrett, R Mo'unga, (Either DMac or Perofeta depending on eligibility)
Centres: R Ioane, J Goodhue, RTS, Q Tupaea, D Havili
Wingers: C Clarke, S Reece, L Fainga'anuku, M Telea*
Fullbacks: W Jordan, J Barrett

lol no

Who over who then?

well lets go you've essentially got rid of no one except 1 prop (who should have gone anyway) and Dane Coles
the injured locks
And arguably our best player from saturday

revo-fucking-lutionary

Who?

Are you from Canterbury?

[Mackerzzzz]

@Mackerzzzz said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@Mackerzzzz said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@Mackerzzzz said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

What about this:

Props: Ofa Tu'ungafasi, N Laulala, T Lomax, G Bower, E De Groot, A Ross
Hooker: S Taukei'aho, C Taylor, A Aumua
Locks: S Whitelock, S Barrett, T Vaii, J Goodhue*
Flanker/No8s: A Savea, S Cane, D Papalii, C Grace, L Jacobson, H Sotutu
Scrunhalfs: A Smith, F Christie, F Fakatava
First fives: B Barrett, R Mo'unga, (Either DMac or Perofeta depending on eligibility)
Centres: R Ioane, J Goodhue, RTS, Q Tupaea, D Havili
Wingers: C Clarke, S Reece, L Fainga'anuku, M Telea*
Fullbacks: W Jordan, J Barrett

lol no

Who over who then?

well lets go you've essentially got rid of no one except 1 prop (who should have gone anyway) and Dane Coles
the injured locks
And arguably our best player from saturday

revo-fucking-lutionary

Picking likely squad not want to have squad

Ok then a want have squad:

Props: Ofa Tu'ungafasi, G Bower, A Ross, O Jager, T Williams, T Lomax
Hookers: S Taukei'aho, A Aumua, K Ekland
Second rows: T Vaii, S Whitelock, J Goodhue, J Dickson
Flankers: A Savea, D Papalii, L Jacobson, C Grace, A Ioane, PGS
Scrum Halfs: A Smith, F Christie, F Fakatava
First fives: B Barrett, R Mo'unga, S Perofeta
Centres: R Ioane, B Sullivan, Q Tupaea, RTS, PUJ
Wingers: C Clarke, L Fainga'anuku, S Reece
Fullbacks: W Jordan, DMac, J Barrett

[Mackerzzzz]

@gt12 said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@Mackerzzzz said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@Mackerzzzz said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@Mackerzzzz said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

What about this:

Props: Ofa Tu'ungafasi, N Laulala, T Lomax, G Bower, E De Groot, A Ross
Hooker: S Taukei'aho, C Taylor, A Aumua
Locks: S Whitelock, S Barrett, T Vaii, J Goodhue*
Flanker/No8s: A Savea, S Cane, D Papalii, C Grace, L Jacobson, H Sotutu
Scrunhalfs: A Smith, F Christie, F Fakatava
First fives: B Barrett, R Mo'unga, (Either DMac or Perofeta depending on eligibility)
Centres: R Ioane, J Goodhue, RTS, Q Tupaea, D Havili
Wingers: C Clarke, S Reece, L Fainga'anuku, M Telea*
Fullbacks: W Jordan, J Barrett

lol no

Who over who then?

well lets go you've essentially got rid of no one except 1 prop (who should have gone anyway) and Dane Coles
the injured locks
And arguably our best player from saturday

revo-fucking-lutionary

Who?

Are you from Canterbury?

Definitely not, I'm still missing who

[Mackerzzzz]

@Mackerzzzz said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@gt12 said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@Mackerzzzz said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@Mackerzzzz said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@Mackerzzzz said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

What about this:

Props: Ofa Tu'ungafasi, N Laulala, T Lomax, G Bower, E De Groot, A Ross
Hooker: S Taukei'aho, C Taylor, A Aumua
Locks: S Whitelock, S Barrett, T Vaii, J Goodhue*
Flanker/No8s: A Savea, S Cane, D Papalii, C Grace, L Jacobson, H Sotutu
Scrunhalfs: A Smith, F Christie, F Fakatava
First fives: B Barrett, R Mo'unga, (Either DMac or Perofeta depending on eligibility)
Centres: R Ioane, J Goodhue, RTS, Q Tupaea, D Havili
Wingers: C Clarke, S Reece, L Fainga'anuku, M Telea*
Fullbacks: W Jordan, J Barrett

lol no

Who over who then?

well lets go you've essentially got rid of no one except 1 prop (who should have gone anyway) and Dane Coles
the injured locks
And arguably our best player from saturday

revo-fucking-lutionary

Who?

Are you from Canterbury?

Definitely not, I'm still missing who

Ooo Akira Ioane

[kev]

@Stargazer said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

I think some people are a bit too keen to get rid of players in the squad.

A lot of the current problems may be "between the players' ears" and I'd like to see first whether a new coach can solve that by improving the culture, communication and game plan.

We had the same issues in the last year that Hansen coached. So while coaching is part of it, I think we are searching for a new formula which involves a certain amount of player change as some players just won’t fit the pattern.

[kev]

@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@TheMojoman said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@reprobate said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@Chris-B said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@KiwiMurph I reckon we might see Jack Goodhue in the midfield - and perhaps Rieko back to the wing.

I like the idea of Goodhue and Rieko together, even though I haven't rated Goodhue at 12 in the past. Just think they might compliment each other well, Goodhue very organised on defense and good at putting his outsides away, while Rieko is always a massive threat with ball in hand and is a very good tackler.

That's a great and established combination... with Jack at 13 where he plays well and Rieko at 11 where he plays well.

Therein lies the problem, chop and change. If Rieko is the long-term 13 then play him there and select around him. Otherwise you get to the RWC and we still don’t know who our best centre pairing are.

That's always gone well. For those barracking Goodhue, remember for all his benefits he's about as fast as a one legged prop.

Conrad Smith / Joe Stanley? It’s all about balance. Midfield is much more about option taking and defence than top pace. If you have the right wings and fullback you don’t need your centre to be be the line breaker. With BB, Havili and Reiko we have the wrong mix. Backline defence and option taking was poor. As much as Reiko’s pace is great he always looks to run before passing.

[antipodean]

@kev said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@TheMojoman said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@reprobate said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@Chris-B said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@KiwiMurph I reckon we might see Jack Goodhue in the midfield - and perhaps Rieko back to the wing.

I like the idea of Goodhue and Rieko together, even though I haven't rated Goodhue at 12 in the past. Just think they might compliment each other well, Goodhue very organised on defense and good at putting his outsides away, while Rieko is always a massive threat with ball in hand and is a very good tackler.

That's a great and established combination... with Jack at 13 where he plays well and Rieko at 11 where he plays well.

Therein lies the problem, chop and change. If Rieko is the long-term 13 then play him there and select around him. Otherwise you get to the RWC and we still don’t know who our best centre pairing are.

That's always gone well. For those barracking Goodhue, remember for all his benefits he's about as fast as a one legged prop.

Conrad Smith / Joe Stanley? It’s all about balance. Midfield is much more about option taking and defence than top pace. If you have the right wings and fullback you don’t need your centre to be be the line breaker. With BB, Havili and Reiko we have the wrong mix. Backline defence and option taking was poor. As much as Reiko’s pace is great he always looks to run before passing.

To be fair, Joe played in a very different era - there was plenty of space on the field. Conrad ran like a bundle of brooms, but I suspect was quicker than Josh. Rieko's pace in that channel with the slightest bit of room is a real point of difference on attack (see his try against France for example). And on defence he covers ground very quickly. Once he gets better at making defensive decisions he'll be best in the world IMO.

[MN5]

@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@kev said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@TheMojoman said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@reprobate said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@Chris-B said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@KiwiMurph I reckon we might see Jack Goodhue in the midfield - and perhaps Rieko back to the wing.

I like the idea of Goodhue and Rieko together, even though I haven't rated Goodhue at 12 in the past. Just think they might compliment each other well, Goodhue very organised on defense and good at putting his outsides away, while Rieko is always a massive threat with ball in hand and is a very good tackler.

That's a great and established combination... with Jack at 13 where he plays well and Rieko at 11 where he plays well.

Therein lies the problem, chop and change. If Rieko is the long-term 13 then play him there and select around him. Otherwise you get to the RWC and we still don’t know who our best centre pairing are.

That's always gone well. For those barracking Goodhue, remember for all his benefits he's about as fast as a one legged prop.

Conrad Smith / Joe Stanley? It’s all about balance. Midfield is much more about option taking and defence than top pace. If you have the right wings and fullback you don’t need your centre to be be the line breaker. With BB, Havili and Reiko we have the wrong mix. Backline defence and option taking was poor. As much as Reiko’s pace is great he always looks to run before passing.

To be fair, Joe played in a very different era - there was plenty of space on the field. Conrad ran like a bundle of brooms, but I suspect was quicker than Josh. Rieko's pace in that channel with the slightest bit of room is a real point of difference on attack (see his try against France for example). And on defence he covers ground very quickly. Once he gets better at making defensive decisions he'll be best in the world IMO.

Interesting description.

But yeah, a much better player than the sum of his parts if that makes sense.

[mariner4life]

have we reached the point where "Ioane always runs and doesn't pass" is one of those myths that people just assume is true?

I just checked some stats for the 3 tests

Reiko ran 14 times
Reiko passed 12 times
Didn't throw an offload.

Didn't register a linebreak so it's not like he hungused away an opportunity.

Is the complete centre? no way. Is he way more rounded than he is given credit for (far far more elsewhere than here I'll admit) absolutely

[Kiwiwomble]

@MN5 said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@kev said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@TheMojoman said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@reprobate said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@Chris-B said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@KiwiMurph I reckon we might see Jack Goodhue in the midfield - and perhaps Rieko back to the wing.

I like the idea of Goodhue and Rieko together, even though I haven't rated Goodhue at 12 in the past. Just think they might compliment each other well, Goodhue very organised on defense and good at putting his outsides away, while Rieko is always a massive threat with ball in hand and is a very good tackler.

That's a great and established combination... with Jack at 13 where he plays well and Rieko at 11 where he plays well.

Therein lies the problem, chop and change. If Rieko is the long-term 13 then play him there and select around him. Otherwise you get to the RWC and we still don’t know who our best centre pairing are.

That's always gone well. For those barracking Goodhue, remember for all his benefits he's about as fast as a one legged prop.

Conrad Smith / Joe Stanley? It’s all about balance. Midfield is much more about option taking and defence than top pace. If you have the right wings and fullback you don’t need your centre to be be the line breaker. With BB, Havili and Reiko we have the wrong mix. Backline defence and option taking was poor. As much as Reiko’s pace is great he always looks to run before passing.

To be fair, Joe played in a very different era - there was plenty of space on the field. Conrad ran like a bundle of brooms, but I suspect was quicker than Josh. Rieko's pace in that channel with the slightest bit of room is a real point of difference on attack (see his try against France for example). And on defence he covers ground very quickly. Once he gets better at making defensive decisions he'll be best in the world IMO.

Interesting description.

But yeah, a much better player than the sum of his parts if that makes sense.

maybe my memory is faulty but i remember him breaking the line loads...and then feeding outside or back to nonu to finish it off...maybe not running over the top of someone breaking the line but the perfect line to split the line and distribute in behind

@mariner4life said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

have we reached the point where "Ioane always runs and doesn't pass" is one of those myths that people just assume is true?

I just checked some stats for the 3 tests

Reiko ran 14 times
Reiko passed 12 times
> Didn't throw an offload.

Didn't register a linebreak so it's not like he hungused away an opportunity.

Is the complete centre? no way. Is he way more rounded than he is given credit for (far far more elsewhere than here I'll admit) absolutely

thats where i love him to improve...when you have guys like reece and jordan outside...you'd love him to get his arms free and offload

[taniwharugby]

@Kiwiwomble get SBW in to work on off loads...

But is a valid point, our off load game has fallen off a cliff in recent years

[Crazy Horse]

@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@kev said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@TheMojoman said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@reprobate said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@Chris-B said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@KiwiMurph I reckon we might see Jack Goodhue in the midfield - and perhaps Rieko back to the wing.

I like the idea of Goodhue and Rieko together, even though I haven't rated Goodhue at 12 in the past. Just think they might compliment each other well, Goodhue very organised on defense and good at putting his outsides away, while Rieko is always a massive threat with ball in hand and is a very good tackler.

That's a great and established combination... with Jack at 13 where he plays well and Rieko at 11 where he plays well.

Therein lies the problem, chop and change. If Rieko is the long-term 13 then play him there and select around him. Otherwise you get to the RWC and we still don’t know who our best centre pairing are.

That's always gone well. For those barracking Goodhue, remember for all his benefits he's about as fast as a one legged prop.

Conrad Smith / Joe Stanley? It’s all about balance. Midfield is much more about option taking and defence than top pace. If you have the right wings and fullback you don’t need your centre to be be the line breaker. With BB, Havili and Reiko we have the wrong mix. Backline defence and option taking was poor. As much as Reiko’s pace is great he always looks to run before passing.

To be fair, Joe played in a very different era - there was plenty of space on the field. Conrad ran like a bundle of brooms, but I suspect was quicker than Josh. Rieko's pace in that channel with the slightest bit of room is a real point of difference on attack (see his try against France for example). And on defence he covers ground very quickly. Once he gets better at making defensive decisions he'll be best in the world IMO.

Don't disagree, but he needs to develop those extra skills soonish (he's on the right track) in case he loses his pace. Like you say, his point of difference right now is his extra pace. We may very well be seeing with J Barrett what happens when pace goes and you haven't mastered the subtle skills of the position, I would hate to see the same thing happen to RI.

Edit: Meant BB not JB.

[Kiwiwomble]

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@Kiwiwomble get SBW in to work on off loads...

But is a valid point, our off load game has fallen off a cliff in recent years

yes, fallen of a cliff...but we're still heavily relying on the idea of trying to score from anywhere on the park...doesnt add up

[nzzp]

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@Kiwiwomble get SBW in to work on off loads...

But is a valid point, our off load game has fallen off a cliff in recent years

And the tacklers are better at stopping it too. The Irish were very well drilled and got multiple people into the tackle repeatedly

[kev]

@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@kev said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@TheMojoman said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@reprobate said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@Chris-B said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:

@KiwiMurph I reckon we might see Jack Goodhue in the midfield - and perhaps Rieko back to the wing.

I like the idea of Goodhue and Rieko together, even though I haven't rated Goodhue at 12 in the past. Just think they might compliment each other well, Goodhue very organised on defense and good at putting his outsides away, while Rieko is always a massive threat with ball in hand and is a very good tackler.

That's a great and established combination... with Jack at 13 where he plays well and Rieko at 11 where he plays well.

Therein lies the problem, chop and change. If Rieko is the long-term 13 then play him there and select around him. Otherwise you get to the RWC and we still don’t know who our best centre pairing are.

That's always gone well. For those barracking Goodhue, remember for all his benefits he's about as fast as a one legged prop.

Conrad Smith / Joe Stanley? It’s all about balance. Midfield is much more about option taking and defence than top pace. If you have the right wings and fullback you don’t need your centre to be be the line breaker. With BB, Havili and Reiko we have the wrong mix. Backline defence and option taking was poor. As much as Reiko’s pace is great he always looks to run before passing.

To be fair, Joe played in a very different era - there was plenty of space on the field. Conrad ran like a bundle of brooms, but I suspect was quicker than Josh. Rieko's pace in that channel with the slightest bit of room is a real point of difference on attack (see his try against France for example). And on defence he covers ground very quickly. Once he gets better at making defensive decision he'll be best in the world IMO.

We keep selecting players on the basis they will be something different to what they are. Reiko can get lost on defence and passing is not his first instinct. No doubt better now than he was. How many line breaks against the Irish? The Irish let their systems and structure beat the player - yet we still want to think our players are somehow going to break the game open from all over the park. Just wishful thinking. What I do remember in the last test was space on the outside for an early pass. Not only did he not give the pass straight away, he held and was tackled with the ball. Pie in the sky to say he will be the best centre in the world because clearly he isn’t close to that at the moment.

[taniwharugby]

@nzzp possibly, but Irelands off-load game was pretty good (possibly more a reflection on our defence...?) all in all, most of our game is pretty disjointed and out of whack, predictable and stale.

Def need some new ideas in there, especially in defence, if our defence gets stronger again, it will pressure the other teams attack more too, which in turn will likely create oppotunities anyway.