All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship
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@Mackerzzzz said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
Yes Conrad ran weird but he actually wasn't that slow
Watch a few videos and you can see he was bloody quick - especially over the first 10-15m.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Mackerzzzz said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
Yes Conrad ran weird but he actually wasn't that slow
Watch a few videos and you can see he was bloody quick - especially over the first 10-15m.
and i think thats the real key, quick over those 10-15 to make the break and then finishers either side, i think Ben smith was similar, he either used that 10-20m of speed to finish...or to break the line on counter and feed someone
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@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@kev said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@TheMojoman said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@reprobate said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@KiwiMurph I reckon we might see Jack Goodhue in the midfield - and perhaps Rieko back to the wing.
I like the idea of Goodhue and Rieko together, even though I haven't rated Goodhue at 12 in the past. Just think they might compliment each other well, Goodhue very organised on defense and good at putting his outsides away, while Rieko is always a massive threat with ball in hand and is a very good tackler.
That's a great and established combination... with Jack at 13 where he plays well and Rieko at 11 where he plays well.
Therein lies the problem, chop and change. If Rieko is the long-term 13 then play him there and select around him. Otherwise you get to the RWC and we still don’t know who our best centre pairing are.
That's always gone well. For those barracking Goodhue, remember for all his benefits he's about as fast as a one legged prop.
Conrad Smith / Joe Stanley? It’s all about balance. Midfield is much more about option taking and defence than top pace. If you have the right wings and fullback you don’t need your centre to be be the line breaker. With BB, Havili and Reiko we have the wrong mix. Backline defence and option taking was poor. As much as Reiko’s pace is great he always looks to run before passing.
To be fair, Joe played in a very different era - there was plenty of space on the field. Conrad ran like a bundle of brooms, but I suspect was quicker than Josh. Rieko's pace in that channel with the slightest bit of room is a real point of difference on attack (see his try against France for example). And on defence he covers ground very quickly. Once he gets better at making defensive decisions he'll be best in the world IMO.
Yes Conrad ran weird but he actually wasn't that slow. I mean not ioane fast but still quick. Never watched Stanley tho, so can't comment on him
@Mackerzzzz said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@kev said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@TheMojoman said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@reprobate said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@KiwiMurph I reckon we might see Jack Goodhue in the midfield - and perhaps Rieko back to the wing.
I like the idea of Goodhue and Rieko together, even though I haven't rated Goodhue at 12 in the past. Just think they might compliment each other well, Goodhue very organised on defense and good at putting his outsides away, while Rieko is always a massive threat with ball in hand and is a very good tackler.
That's a great and established combination... with Jack at 13 where he plays well and Rieko at 11 where he plays well.
Therein lies the problem, chop and change. If Rieko is the long-term 13 then play him there and select around him. Otherwise you get to the RWC and we still don’t know who our best centre pairing are.
That's always gone well. For those barracking Goodhue, remember for all his benefits he's about as fast as a one legged prop.
Conrad Smith / Joe Stanley? It’s all about balance. Midfield is much more about option taking and defence than top pace. If you have the right wings and fullback you don’t need your centre to be be the line breaker. With BB, Havili and Reiko we have the wrong mix. Backline defence and option taking was poor. As much as Reiko’s pace is great he always looks to run before passing.
To be fair, Joe played in a very different era - there was plenty of space on the field. Conrad ran like a bundle of brooms, but I suspect was quicker than Josh. Rieko's pace in that channel with the slightest bit of room is a real point of difference on attack (see his try against France for example). And on defence he covers ground very quickly. Once he gets better at making defensive decisions he'll be best in the world IMO.
Yes Conrad ran weird but he actually wasn't that slow. I mean not ioane fast but still quick. Never watched Stanley tho, so can't comment on him
When Rigor ( New Zealand cricket opener Mark Richardson to any non cricket fans on here ) had those self indulgent races in jump suits I’m fairly sure Ma’a and Conrad were about the same speed over whatever distance they ran ?
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@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@kev said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@TheMojoman said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@reprobate said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@KiwiMurph I reckon we might see Jack Goodhue in the midfield - and perhaps Rieko back to the wing.
I like the idea of Goodhue and Rieko together, even though I haven't rated Goodhue at 12 in the past. Just think they might compliment each other well, Goodhue very organised on defense and good at putting his outsides away, while Rieko is always a massive threat with ball in hand and is a very good tackler.
That's a great and established combination... with Jack at 13 where he plays well and Rieko at 11 where he plays well.
Therein lies the problem, chop and change. If Rieko is the long-term 13 then play him there and select around him. Otherwise you get to the RWC and we still don’t know who our best centre pairing are.
That's always gone well. For those barracking Goodhue, remember for all his benefits he's about as fast as a one legged prop.
Conrad Smith / Joe Stanley? It’s all about balance. Midfield is much more about option taking and defence than top pace. If you have the right wings and fullback you don’t need your centre to be be the line breaker. With BB, Havili and Reiko we have the wrong mix. Backline defence and option taking was poor. As much as Reiko’s pace is great he always looks to run before passing.
To be fair, Joe played in a very different era - there was plenty of space on the field. Conrad ran like a bundle of brooms, but I suspect was quicker than Josh. Rieko's pace in that channel with the slightest bit of room is a real point of difference on attack (see his try against France for example). And on defence he covers ground very quickly. Once he gets better at making defensive decisions he'll be best in the world IMO.
Yes Conrad ran weird but he actually wasn't that slow. I mean not ioane fast but still quick. Never watched Stanley tho, so can't comment on him
@Mackerzzzz said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@kev said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@TheMojoman said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@reprobate said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@KiwiMurph I reckon we might see Jack Goodhue in the midfield - and perhaps Rieko back to the wing.
I like the idea of Goodhue and Rieko together, even though I haven't rated Goodhue at 12 in the past. Just think they might compliment each other well, Goodhue very organised on defense and good at putting his outsides away, while Rieko is always a massive threat with ball in hand and is a very good tackler.
That's a great and established combination... with Jack at 13 where he plays well and Rieko at 11 where he plays well.
Therein lies the problem, chop and change. If Rieko is the long-term 13 then play him there and select around him. Otherwise you get to the RWC and we still don’t know who our best centre pairing are.
That's always gone well. For those barracking Goodhue, remember for all his benefits he's about as fast as a one legged prop.
Conrad Smith / Joe Stanley? It’s all about balance. Midfield is much more about option taking and defence than top pace. If you have the right wings and fullback you don’t need your centre to be be the line breaker. With BB, Havili and Reiko we have the wrong mix. Backline defence and option taking was poor. As much as Reiko’s pace is great he always looks to run before passing.
To be fair, Joe played in a very different era - there was plenty of space on the field. Conrad ran like a bundle of brooms, but I suspect was quicker than Josh. Rieko's pace in that channel with the slightest bit of room is a real point of difference on attack (see his try against France for example). And on defence he covers ground very quickly. Once he gets better at making defensive decisions he'll be best in the world IMO.
Yes Conrad ran weird but he actually wasn't that slow. I mean not ioane fast but still quick. Never watched Stanley tho, so can't comment on him
Conrad was a great player - really fit, smart, played 80 minutes to a high level. Jack has similar qualities - Robinson uses him in the Crusaders in that role. But Reiko has got that great explosive speed. Just about picking a team and tactics that work.
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Well this is weird. Conrad's pace was far more Goodhue than Ioane. Very fit, but not fast, and definitely not fast off the mark. Nor was Stanley fast. Nor was Bunce.
I tell you what all of them could do though, is make space for outsides and deliver the pass and make good decisions.
Every time Ioane makes a break it's 50/50 whether it breaks down with/because of him. High ceiling absolutely, but as of now he can't do the core job on defence or attack as well as Goodhue can, and he will make more errors, and he's a really bloody good winger.
If we stick to our nothing game plan and rely on individual breaks then sure. But surely we kinda know that doesn't work now? -
Let's all just agree that changing who plays at centre still won't give us front foot ball.
It's the ability of our forwards to secure, retain possession and provide quick ball over the advantage line that will provide space. They also need to not act like revolving doors in defence, or give away penalties if they do inadvertently tackle someone.
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I would quite like a genuine fetcher at 7 bring to balance the loose forwards and maybe secure us a bit more ball. If you have big ball runners at 6 and 8 you can afford a smaller 7 who just makes their tackles and pilfers ball. Our current style feels like our 7's are more like 6 and a halfs.
Also RTS may be the future but based on super rugby he did not stand out. Give him a year of provincial rugby and come back to it and see how he looks. If he doesn't dominate there we have our answer.
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@mariner4life Just usual provincial bias that clouds people's judgements on here even if they swear they don't do it.
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@mariner4life Just usual provincial bias that clouds people's judgements on here even if they swear they don't do it.
Bit harsh on the Auckland and Blues supporters there…
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I would quite like a genuine fetcher at 7 bring to balance the loose forwards and maybe secure us a bit more ball. If you have big ball runners at 6 and 8 you can afford a smaller 7 who just makes their tackles and pilfers ball. Our current style feels like our 7's are more like 6 and a halfs.
Also RTS may be the future but based on super rugby he did not stand out. Give him a year of provincial rugby and come back to it and see how he looks. If he doesn't dominate there we have our answer.
@mooshld said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
I would quite like a genuine fetcher at 7 bring to balance the loose forwards and maybe secure us a bit more ball. If you have big ball runners at 6 and 8 you can afford a smaller 7 who just makes their tackles and pilfers ball. Our current style feels like our 7's are more like 6 and a halfs.
It doesn’t feel like Cane won any turnovers in the last test. I like his physical presence at collision, but elsewhere his ball skills let him down. Ardie tends to ride tackles down than win collisions but is good as the 2nd man in. But I know what you mean about having a 7 that wins more on the ground. Nowadays they have to built like a brick shithouse to take the knocks.
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What about this:
Props: Ofa Tu'ungafasi, N Laulala, T Lomax, G Bower, E De Groot, A Ross
Hooker: S Taukei'aho, C Taylor, A Aumua
Locks: S Whitelock, S Barrett, T Vaii, J Goodhue*
Flanker/No8s: A Savea, S Cane, D Papalii, C Grace, L Jacobson, H Sotutu
Scrunhalfs: A Smith, F Christie, F Fakatava
First fives: B Barrett, R Mo'unga, (Either DMac or Perofeta depending on eligibility)
Centres: R Ioane, J Goodhue, RTS, Q Tupaea, D Havili
Wingers: C Clarke, S Reece, L Fainga'anuku, M Telea*
Fullbacks: W Jordan, J Barrett@Mackerzzzz said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
What about this:
Props: Ofa Tu'ungafasi, N Laulala, T Lomax, G Bower, E De Groot, A Ross
Hooker: S Taukei'aho, C Taylor, A Aumua
Locks: S Whitelock, S Barrett, T Vaii, J Goodhue*
Flanker/No8s: A Savea, S Cane, D Papalii, C Grace, L Jacobson, H Sotutu
Scrunhalfs: A Smith, F Christie, F Fakatava
First fives: B Barrett, R Mo'unga, (Either DMac or Perofeta depending on eligibility)
Centres: R Ioane, J Goodhue, RTS, Q Tupaea, D Havili
Wingers: C Clarke, S Reece, L Fainga'anuku, M Telea*
Fullbacks: W Jordan, J BarrettI agree on most of this with a couple of exceptions;
- You’ve left out Akira Ioane, one of the best performers in Test 3.
- I would include Patty T, personal bias but also same reasoning as Laulala ie, experience. If Whitelock falls over you’re left with Barrett who we want at 6 and Vaa’i with a newbie on the bench? Too much risk.
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I would quite like a genuine fetcher at 7 bring to balance the loose forwards and maybe secure us a bit more ball. If you have big ball runners at 6 and 8 you can afford a smaller 7 who just makes their tackles and pilfers ball. Our current style feels like our 7's are more like 6 and a halfs.
Also RTS may be the future but based on super rugby he did not stand out. Give him a year of provincial rugby and come back to it and see how he looks. If he doesn't dominate there we have our answer.
@mooshld said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
I would quite like a genuine fetcher at 7 bring to balance the loose forwards and maybe secure us a bit more ball. If you have big ball runners at 6 and 8 you can afford a smaller 7 who just makes their tackles and pilfers ball. Our current style feels like our 7's are more like 6 and a halfs.
genuine fetcher? pilfers?
Cobber, take that Phil Waugh, David Pocock speak over to GAGR
The closest player to that description is probably Harmon who didn’t disgrace himself for the MABs, but it’s a question of potentially sacrificing other areas.
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@mooshld said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
I would quite like a genuine fetcher at 7 bring to balance the loose forwards and maybe secure us a bit more ball. If you have big ball runners at 6 and 8 you can afford a smaller 7 who just makes their tackles and pilfers ball. Our current style feels like our 7's are more like 6 and a halfs.
It doesn’t feel like Cane won any turnovers in the last test. I like his physical presence at collision, but elsewhere his ball skills let him down. Ardie tends to ride tackles down than win collisions but is good as the 2nd man in. But I know what you mean about having a 7 that wins more on the ground. Nowadays they have to built like a brick shithouse to take the knocks.
@kev again I think it is in part how we are playing, as opposed to not having players for the job.
I think in part rucks are such a lottery now, im not sure it is worth attacking as much.
Dalton certainly has the physical attributes to be a good 7, runs good lines, and has a presence like Cane does in the d line, so looks like he is just biding his time behind Cane, as Cane did behind Richie.
Obviously the other thing is Ardie, he often is one of the first to rucks, but doesn't always attack, so again, leads me to think it is a tactic, so they could also move Ardie to 7, opening the door for Sotutu at 8, whose game I really want to see grown at international level.
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@kev again I think it is in part how we are playing, as opposed to not having players for the job.
I think in part rucks are such a lottery now, im not sure it is worth attacking as much.
Dalton certainly has the physical attributes to be a good 7, runs good lines, and has a presence like Cane does in the d line, so looks like he is just biding his time behind Cane, as Cane did behind Richie.
Obviously the other thing is Ardie, he often is one of the first to rucks, but doesn't always attack, so again, leads me to think it is a tactic, so they could also move Ardie to 7, opening the door for Sotutu at 8, whose game I really want to see grown at international level.
@taniwharugby yeah, there is a lot more to tactics than we know. I don’t think DP has had a fair crack yet. Time will tell. But calling back Frizzell and PT were disappointing decisions for me. Both have had a really good go and I can’t see they offer what we are missing. Kaino became a good player so maybe but….
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@Crucial tours been cancelled, people are being too mean!
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@mooshld said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
I would quite like a genuine fetcher at 7 bring to balance the loose forwards and maybe secure us a bit more ball. If you have big ball runners at 6 and 8 you can afford a smaller 7 who just makes their tackles and pilfers ball. Our current style feels like our 7's are more like 6 and a halfs.
genuine fetcher? pilfers?
Cobber, take that Phil Waugh, David Pocock speak over to GAGR
The closest player to that description is probably Harmon who didn’t disgrace himself for the MABs, but it’s a question of potentially sacrificing other areas.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@mooshld said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
I would quite like a genuine fetcher at 7 bring to balance the loose forwards and maybe secure us a bit more ball. If you have big ball runners at 6 and 8 you can afford a smaller 7 who just makes their tackles and pilfers ball. Our current style feels like our 7's are more like 6 and a halfs.
genuine fetcher? pilfers?
Cobber, take that Phil Waugh, David Pocock speak over to GAGR
The closest player to that description is probably Harmon who didn’t disgrace himself for the MABs, but it’s a question of potentially sacrificing other areas.
We had one very good one, in Boshier. Should have been thrown a bone by the selectors, if only to keep that tactical option open to us. We didn't have one available at all for a long time after Richie slowed down a bit, so all and sundry started pretending it wasn't a useful skill anymore, hence all the Pocock is useless crap.
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@broughie said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@TheMojoman at super rugby level but has not shown anything at international except against the minnows. I think @Bones was suggesting 1st five but he would have the same problem in Canterbury.
We are talking about DH at 10? Please no. He was barely adequate there for the Crusaders. DH's best position is 15 IMO.
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@broughie said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@TheMojoman at super rugby level but has not shown anything at international except against the minnows. I think @Bones was suggesting 1st five but he would have the same problem in Canterbury.
We are talking about DH at 10? Please no. He was barely adequate there for the Crusaders. DH's best position is 15 IMO.
Havili's best position at AB level is on the bench, so we can have a reserve halfback and stack the forward reserves.
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@mooshld said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
I would quite like a genuine fetcher at 7 bring to balance the loose forwards and maybe secure us a bit more ball. If you have big ball runners at 6 and 8 you can afford a smaller 7 who just makes their tackles and pilfers ball. Our current style feels like our 7's are more like 6 and a halfs.
genuine fetcher? pilfers?
Cobber, take that Phil Waugh, David Pocock speak over to GAGR
The closest player to that description is probably Harmon who didn’t disgrace himself for the MABs, but it’s a question of potentially sacrificing other areas.
Harmon, Christie, Kirifi The players are there but we don't seem interested in that style of play.
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Harmon, Christie, Kirifi The players are there but we don't seem interested in that style of play.
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@mooshld I don't think they are to be honest, none of those guys are at the level required yet. Kirifi is a penalty magnet, Christie is more a tackler than a turnover merchant, and Harmon is only solid.
@reprobate My point is they are all genuine 7's if we want to change the way we play they are our best options, and if they are the best we have then I would rather we tried that, then picked 5 6's and filled the 3 loose forward roles with them.
