All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship
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@kev again I think it is in part how we are playing, as opposed to not having players for the job.
I think in part rucks are such a lottery now, im not sure it is worth attacking as much.
Dalton certainly has the physical attributes to be a good 7, runs good lines, and has a presence like Cane does in the d line, so looks like he is just biding his time behind Cane, as Cane did behind Richie.
Obviously the other thing is Ardie, he often is one of the first to rucks, but doesn't always attack, so again, leads me to think it is a tactic, so they could also move Ardie to 7, opening the door for Sotutu at 8, whose game I really want to see grown at international level.
@taniwharugby yeah, there is a lot more to tactics than we know. I don’t think DP has had a fair crack yet. Time will tell. But calling back Frizzell and PT were disappointing decisions for me. Both have had a really good go and I can’t see they offer what we are missing. Kaino became a good player so maybe but….
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@Crucial tours been cancelled, people are being too mean!
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@mooshld said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
I would quite like a genuine fetcher at 7 bring to balance the loose forwards and maybe secure us a bit more ball. If you have big ball runners at 6 and 8 you can afford a smaller 7 who just makes their tackles and pilfers ball. Our current style feels like our 7's are more like 6 and a halfs.
genuine fetcher? pilfers?
Cobber, take that Phil Waugh, David Pocock speak over to GAGR
The closest player to that description is probably Harmon who didn’t disgrace himself for the MABs, but it’s a question of potentially sacrificing other areas.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@mooshld said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
I would quite like a genuine fetcher at 7 bring to balance the loose forwards and maybe secure us a bit more ball. If you have big ball runners at 6 and 8 you can afford a smaller 7 who just makes their tackles and pilfers ball. Our current style feels like our 7's are more like 6 and a halfs.
genuine fetcher? pilfers?
Cobber, take that Phil Waugh, David Pocock speak over to GAGR
The closest player to that description is probably Harmon who didn’t disgrace himself for the MABs, but it’s a question of potentially sacrificing other areas.
We had one very good one, in Boshier. Should have been thrown a bone by the selectors, if only to keep that tactical option open to us. We didn't have one available at all for a long time after Richie slowed down a bit, so all and sundry started pretending it wasn't a useful skill anymore, hence all the Pocock is useless crap.
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@broughie said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@TheMojoman at super rugby level but has not shown anything at international except against the minnows. I think @Bones was suggesting 1st five but he would have the same problem in Canterbury.
We are talking about DH at 10? Please no. He was barely adequate there for the Crusaders. DH's best position is 15 IMO.
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@broughie said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@TheMojoman at super rugby level but has not shown anything at international except against the minnows. I think @Bones was suggesting 1st five but he would have the same problem in Canterbury.
We are talking about DH at 10? Please no. He was barely adequate there for the Crusaders. DH's best position is 15 IMO.
Havili's best position at AB level is on the bench, so we can have a reserve halfback and stack the forward reserves.
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@mooshld said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
I would quite like a genuine fetcher at 7 bring to balance the loose forwards and maybe secure us a bit more ball. If you have big ball runners at 6 and 8 you can afford a smaller 7 who just makes their tackles and pilfers ball. Our current style feels like our 7's are more like 6 and a halfs.
genuine fetcher? pilfers?
Cobber, take that Phil Waugh, David Pocock speak over to GAGR
The closest player to that description is probably Harmon who didn’t disgrace himself for the MABs, but it’s a question of potentially sacrificing other areas.
Harmon, Christie, Kirifi The players are there but we don't seem interested in that style of play.
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Harmon, Christie, Kirifi The players are there but we don't seem interested in that style of play.
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@mooshld I don't think they are to be honest, none of those guys are at the level required yet. Kirifi is a penalty magnet, Christie is more a tackler than a turnover merchant, and Harmon is only solid.
@reprobate My point is they are all genuine 7's if we want to change the way we play they are our best options, and if they are the best we have then I would rather we tried that, then picked 5 6's and filled the 3 loose forward roles with them.
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So what we're saying, is we should pick 7's from (and adopt the style of play from) a couple of the losingest teams in SRA? Makes sense with our record I guess.
hahah hey Tom Christie was in a winning team. If they are the best then yeah we should pick from them. Enough with out of position players.
You can't tell me there isn't a better 6 in New Zealand then a lock that sometimes plays 6 and there isn't a better 7 then an out of form guy that doesn't get turnovers and plays more like a 6 then a 7 anyway.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@mooshld said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
I would quite like a genuine fetcher at 7 bring to balance the loose forwards and maybe secure us a bit more ball. If you have big ball runners at 6 and 8 you can afford a smaller 7 who just makes their tackles and pilfers ball. Our current style feels like our 7's are more like 6 and a halfs.
genuine fetcher? pilfers?
Cobber, take that Phil Waugh, David Pocock speak over to GAGR
The closest player to that description is probably Harmon who didn’t disgrace himself for the MABs, but it’s a question of potentially sacrificing other areas.
We had one very good one, in Boshier. Should have been thrown a bone by the selectors, if only to keep that tactical option open to us. We didn't have one available at all for a long time after Richie slowed down a bit, so all and sundry started pretending it wasn't a useful skill anymore, hence all the Pocock is useless crap.
@reprobate I’m not implying or have been in the Pocock is useless camp. But he lurked for good parts of games looking for turnover ball. As the game changed and law interpretations along with it, those opportunities became less and less. So questions were raised, what else is he bringing?
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I think both Papali'i and Blackadder (when fit) could play that type of 7 role, if that's what the coaches wanted.
@Stargazer Agree with this. But if they are injured we should look at the next cab off the rank not try to shoe horn someone in.
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Harmon, Christie, Kirifi The players are there but we don't seem interested in that style of play.
@mooshld said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
Harmon, Christie, Kirifi The players are there but we don't seem interested in that style of play.
Christie and Kirifi get blown off the ball (and their feet) far too often in my view.
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@mooshld said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
Harmon, Christie, Kirifi The players are there but we don't seem interested in that style of play.
Christie and Kirifi get blown off the ball (and their feet) far too often in my view.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@mooshld said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
Harmon, Christie, Kirifi The players are there but we don't seem interested in that style of play.
Christie and Kirifi get blown off the ball (and their feet) far too often in my view.
But they at least get on it. Even getting blown off the ball requires the other team to commit. We need balance in our back row not 3 6's thats my point.
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@reprobate I’m not implying or have been in the Pocock is useless camp. But he lurked for good parts of games looking for turnover ball. As the game changed and law interpretations along with it, those opportunities became less and less. So questions were raised, what else is he bringing?
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@reprobate I’m not implying or have been in the Pocock is useless camp. But he lurked for good parts of games looking for turnover ball. As the game changed and law interpretations along with it, those opportunities became less and less. So questions were raised, what else is he bringing?
Pocock only had one trick but to be fair he was bloody good at it
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hahah hey Tom Christie was in a winning team. If they are the best then yeah we should pick from them. Enough with out of position players.
You can't tell me there isn't a better 6 in New Zealand then a lock that sometimes plays 6 and there isn't a better 7 then an out of form guy that doesn't get turnovers and plays more like a 6 then a 7 anyway.
@mooshld said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
You can't tell me there isn't a better 6 in New Zealand then a lock that sometimes plays 6 and there isn't a better 7 then an out of form guy that doesn't get turnovers and plays more like a 6 then a 7 anyway.
And I wouldn't try to! I want to see DP given a fair crack (edit: at openside), rather than being a 6 in a trio of opensides, or a guy coming on to try and do something when we're getting absolutely smacked AND are defending a lineout on our tryline.
Ioane has done enough for me to want to see way more of him at 6.
Grace seems like the perfect 8 to work alongside those guys for mine, with the psycho form he's been showing.
I want to see Ardie kill it off the bench in whatever position they want to use him, preferably getting a 30 minute spell.
Blackadder looks to me like a 7 in the McCaw mould. Hammer and tongs into everything without a care for his health. Until he returns, Cane keeps his place.
Sotutu definitely deserves a shot after his SR form.
Papalii
Ioane
Sotutu
Grace
Savea
CanePlenty of cover for every position and plenty of guys in form. With the likes of Robinson, Sowakula, MMT, Delaney, Blackadder, Jacobson to provide plenty of competition.
We have enough guys that can play 7 to a really high level though, so we don't need more!
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@mooshld said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
You can't tell me there isn't a better 6 in New Zealand then a lock that sometimes plays 6 and there isn't a better 7 then an out of form guy that doesn't get turnovers and plays more like a 6 then a 7 anyway.
And I wouldn't try to! I want to see DP given a fair crack (edit: at openside), rather than being a 6 in a trio of opensides, or a guy coming on to try and do something when we're getting absolutely smacked AND are defending a lineout on our tryline.
Ioane has done enough for me to want to see way more of him at 6.
Grace seems like the perfect 8 to work alongside those guys for mine, with the psycho form he's been showing.
I want to see Ardie kill it off the bench in whatever position they want to use him, preferably getting a 30 minute spell.
Blackadder looks to me like a 7 in the McCaw mould. Hammer and tongs into everything without a care for his health. Until he returns, Cane keeps his place.
Sotutu definitely deserves a shot after his SR form.
Papalii
Ioane
Sotutu
Grace
Savea
CanePlenty of cover for every position and plenty of guys in form. With the likes of Robinson, Sowakula, MMT, Delaney, Blackadder, Jacobson to provide plenty of competition.
We have enough guys that can play 7 to a really high level though, so we don't need more!
@Bones said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@mooshld said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
You can't tell me there isn't a better 6 in New Zealand then a lock that sometimes plays 6 and there isn't a better 7 then an out of form guy that doesn't get turnovers and plays more like a 6 then a 7 anyway.
And I wouldn't try to! I want to see DP given a fair crack, rather than being a 6 in a trio of opensides, or a guy coming on to try and do something when we're getting absolutely smacked AND are defending a lineout on our tryline.
Ioane has done enough for me to want to see way more of him at 6.
Grace seems like the perfect 8 to work alongside those guys for mine, with the psycho form he's been showing.
I want to see Ardie kill it off the bench in whatever position they want to use him, preferably getting a 30 minute spell.
Blackadder looks to me like a 7 in the McCaw mould. Hammer and tongs into everything without a care for his health. Until he returns, Cane keeps his place.
Sotutu definitely deserves a shot after his SR form.
Papalii
Ioane
Sotutu
Grace
Savea
CanePlenty of cover for every position and plenty of guys in form. With the likes of Robinson, Sowakula, MMT, Delaney, Blackadder, Jacobson to provide plenty of competition.
We have enough guys that can play 7 to a really high level though, so we don't need more!
One of the most well-reasoned posts on here.
We should pick the best 7, 6 & 8 and work out the captain from there. If there's a better 8 than Ardie, then look at him at 7 or off the bench.
I like Cane but he play has suffered and whether it's the spate of injuries or the captaincy, he isn't the player he was. Keep him in the 23 though, as his play may improve without the captaincy burden.
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@Bones said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@mooshld said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
You can't tell me there isn't a better 6 in New Zealand then a lock that sometimes plays 6 and there isn't a better 7 then an out of form guy that doesn't get turnovers and plays more like a 6 then a 7 anyway.
And I wouldn't try to! I want to see DP given a fair crack, rather than being a 6 in a trio of opensides, or a guy coming on to try and do something when we're getting absolutely smacked AND are defending a lineout on our tryline.
Ioane has done enough for me to want to see way more of him at 6.
Grace seems like the perfect 8 to work alongside those guys for mine, with the psycho form he's been showing.
I want to see Ardie kill it off the bench in whatever position they want to use him, preferably getting a 30 minute spell.
Blackadder looks to me like a 7 in the McCaw mould. Hammer and tongs into everything without a care for his health. Until he returns, Cane keeps his place.
Sotutu definitely deserves a shot after his SR form.
Papalii
Ioane
Sotutu
Grace
Savea
CanePlenty of cover for every position and plenty of guys in form. With the likes of Robinson, Sowakula, MMT, Delaney, Blackadder, Jacobson to provide plenty of competition.
We have enough guys that can play 7 to a really high level though, so we don't need more!
One of the most well-reasoned posts on here.
We should pick the best 7, 6 & 8 and work out the captain from there. If there's a better 8 than Ardie, then look at him at 7 or off the bench.
I like Cane but he play has suffered and whether it's the spate of injuries or the captaincy, he isn't the player he was. Keep him in the 23 though, as his play may improve without the captaincy burden.
@Victor-Meldrew I would say throw the captaincy to DP, but he really has to prove he's set in stone first. I'd be tempted to go with Scooter.
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This picking squads game is a bit irrelevant, don’t you think, when you have an incompetent coaching panel, a corrupt administration and a public that senses you are really just shifting the deck chairs? I know it’s a fun parlour game picking this bloke or that bloke for each position, but you can swap the chess pieces as much as you want without realising that the real issue is that you’re playing checkers with 4D chess masters. I wouldn’t bother.
