All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@mooshld said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
I would quite like a genuine fetcher at 7 bring to balance the loose forwards and maybe secure us a bit more ball. If you have big ball runners at 6 and 8 you can afford a smaller 7 who just makes their tackles and pilfers ball. Our current style feels like our 7's are more like 6 and a halfs.
genuine fetcher? pilfers?
Cobber, take that Phil Waugh, David Pocock speak over to GAGR
The closest player to that description is probably Harmon who didn’t disgrace himself for the MABs, but it’s a question of potentially sacrificing other areas.
We had one very good one, in Boshier. Should have been thrown a bone by the selectors, if only to keep that tactical option open to us. We didn't have one available at all for a long time after Richie slowed down a bit, so all and sundry started pretending it wasn't a useful skill anymore, hence all the Pocock is useless crap.
@reprobate maybe every forward needs to be a fetcher these days. It is not just a seven. Whoever is their.
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@Mackerzzzz not diminishing Conrad but Nonu made space for the midfield by direct running or his side steps either way. Of course Conrad had to read it but he was one of the smart white guys you need.
@broughie said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Mackerzzzz not diminishing Conrad but Nonu made space for the midfield by direct running or his side steps either way. Of course Conrad had to read it but he was one of the smart white guys you need.
We don't have that hard running physical presence at 12 right now. We really miss it
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@MrDenmore said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
This picking squads game is a bit irrelevant, don’t you think, when you have an incompetent coaching panel, a corrupt administration and a public that senses you are really just shifting the deck chairs? I know it’s a fun parlour game picking this bloke or that bloke for each position, but you can swap the chess pieces as much as you want without realising that the real issue is that you’re playing checkers with 4D chess masters. I wouldn’t bother.
Well, as an ex-pat who doesn't watch every SR game, I find this sort of thread incredibly useful in getting a feel for the players and potential players.
Yeah, you might get one of two cockwomble comments, but the opinions on here comes from people with a pretty damn good knowledge of the game, SR squads, the various players and their strengths & weaknesses. E.g. I'd find out more about MSR than I would ever get from the MSM.
@Victor-Meldrew thank you for the compliment. I am going to savor that.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
The role of the openside has changed as they aren't getting as many breakdown turnovers now, or any more frequently than any other player.
For that you can blame the GOAT. He was so good WR changed the law. Then Pocockwomble turned being second to the breakdown into an art form. Defences got so good that that little trick isn't worth carrying a limited player.
That goes for passive tacklers who give up ground to try and stay on their feet to be the first on the ball.
In my opinion we're at a point where the team is better off denying territory with punishing defence.
@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
The role of the openside has changed as they aren't getting as many breakdown turnovers now, or any more frequently than any other player.
For that you can blame the GOAT. He was so good WR changed the law. Then Pocockwomble turned being second to the breakdown into an art form. Defences got so good that that little trick isn't worth carrying a limited player.
That goes for passive tacklers who give up ground to try and stay on their feet to be the first on the ball.
In my opinion we're at a point where the team is better off denying territory with punishing defence.
Nah, this is just what we told ourselves when the Aussies had someone who was really good at it and we didn't. All sorts of bullshit about how it wasn't important, and how we could do it too if we wanted to, but were busy doing more important things.
Pocock was one-dimensional sure, but that doesn't mean that what he was really good at wasn't a really fucking useful skill to have. Beirne showed the importance of it last week. And he can do other things too - it's not like being able to get on the ball means a player doesn't have any other skills. Even the one-dimensional Pocock would have been an amazing asset if paired with Whitelock, Retallick, Kaino, Read.
As for our defence, it's not punishing. So we're passive and not looking for turnovers. Woo-hoo. -
@FakatavaAllBlack said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Victor-Meldrew keep your ear to the ground on the name Zach Gallagher, the young man is built like a fridge
Only 20 big unit went really well on debut for the Crusaders.
I have been watching him since school rugby days. -
@reprobate maybe every forward needs to be a fetcher these days. It is not just a seven. Whoever is their.
@broughie said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@reprobate maybe every forward needs to be a fetcher these days. It is not just a seven. Whoever is their.
Yes, exactly right. And the backs for that matter. Contesting and protecting possession at the breakdown is a core skill.
It hasn't become less important, it's become more important. -
@broughie said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@reprobate maybe every forward needs to be a fetcher these days. It is not just a seven. Whoever is their.
Yes, exactly right. And the backs for that matter. Contesting and protecting possession at the breakdown is a core skill.
It hasn't become less important, it's become more important.@reprobate said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@broughie said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@reprobate maybe every forward needs to be a fetcher these days. It is not just a seven. Whoever is their.
Yes, exactly right. And the backs for that matter. Contesting and protecting possession at the breakdown is a core skill.
It hasn't become less important, it's become more important.We still seem obsessed with sending the fewest numbers to the breakdown, then wondering why we lose our ball, or how they recycle and go so easily....
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@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
The role of the openside has changed as they aren't getting as many breakdown turnovers now, or any more frequently than any other player.
For that you can blame the GOAT. He was so good WR changed the law. Then Pocockwomble turned being second to the breakdown into an art form. Defences got so good that that little trick isn't worth carrying a limited player.
That goes for passive tacklers who give up ground to try and stay on their feet to be the first on the ball.
In my opinion we're at a point where the team is better off denying territory with punishing defence.
Nah, this is just what we told ourselves when the Aussies had someone who was really good at it and we didn't. All sorts of bullshit about how it wasn't important, and how we could do it too if we wanted to, but were busy doing more important things.
Pocock was one-dimensional sure, but that doesn't mean that what he was really good at wasn't a really fucking useful skill to have. Beirne showed the importance of it last week. And he can do other things too - it's not like being able to get on the ball means a player doesn't have any other skills. Even the one-dimensional Pocock would have been an amazing asset if paired with Whitelock, Retallick, Kaino, Read.
As for our defence, it's not punishing. So we're passive and not looking for turnovers. Woo-hoo.@reprobate said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
The role of the openside has changed as they aren't getting as many breakdown turnovers now, or any more frequently than any other player.
For that you can blame the GOAT. He was so good WR changed the law. Then Pocockwomble turned being second to the breakdown into an art form. Defences got so good that that little trick isn't worth carrying a limited player.
That goes for passive tacklers who give up ground to try and stay on their feet to be the first on the ball.
In my opinion we're at a point where the team is better off denying territory with punishing defence.
Nah, this is just what we told ourselves when the Aussies had someone who was really good at it and we didn't. All sorts of bullshit about how it wasn't important, and how we could do it too if we wanted to, but were busy doing more important things.
Pocock was one-dimensional sure, but that doesn't mean that what he was really good at wasn't a really fucking useful skill to have. Beirne showed the importance of it last week. And he can do other things too - it's not like being able to get on the ball means a player doesn't have any other skills. Even the one-dimensional Pocock would have been an amazing asset if paired with Whitelock, Retallick, Kaino, Read.
As for our defence, it's not punishing. So we're passive and not looking for turnovers. Woo-hoo.Nah - just because we didn't have one guy who's only job was to get turnovers, doesn't mean we weren't getting turnovers. I'd be extremely surprised to see that total turnovers across the teams in any of our matches against Aus with him playing weren't close to evens.
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@broughie said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Mackerzzzz not diminishing Conrad but Nonu made space for the midfield by direct running or his side steps either way. Of course Conrad had to read it but he was one of the smart white guys you need.
We don't have that hard running physical presence at 12 right now. We really miss it
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@reprobate said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@broughie said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@TheMojoman at super rugby level but has not shown anything at international except against the minnows. I think @Bones was suggesting 1st five but he would have the same problem in Canterbury.
We are talking about DH at 10? Please no. He was barely adequate there for the Crusaders. DH's best position is 15 IMO.
Havili's best position at AB level is on the bench, so we can have a reserve halfback and stack the forward reserves.
There's a theme developing here. We appear to have a squad of guys that rightly or wrongly can't command a starting jumper but are deemed great and flexible reserves, covering multiple positions at an average level. Ardie covers 6-8 (and 12). Sami cant get a start. Barrett 6 or lock. Jordie 15, 12 and wing. BB 10 and 15. Havili and RTS and JG 12/13 with a bit of 10/15 thrown in. Reiko 13 and wing. Paps is a 6 or a 7, Sowakulu a 6 or an 8, Akira can't play 80 and Sotutu can't get a run at all.
My solution is to start just 5 forwards and 5 backs (doesn't really matter which ones) and have a 13 man bench. After 60mins we can roll out our bench superstars and dominate all comers.
Who's with me?
@voodoo said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@reprobate said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@broughie said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@TheMojoman at super rugby level but has not shown anything at international except against the minnows. I think @Bones was suggesting 1st five but he would have the same problem in Canterbury.
We are talking about DH at 10? Please no. He was barely adequate there for the Crusaders. DH's best position is 15 IMO.
Havili's best position at AB level is on the bench, so we can have a reserve halfback and stack the forward reserves.
There's a theme developing here. We appear to have a squad of guys that rightly or wrongly can't command a starting jumper but are deemed great and flexible reserves, covering multiple positions at an average level. Ardie covers 6-8 (and 12). Sami cant get a start. Barrett 6 or lock. Jordie 15, 12 and wing. BB 10 and 15. Havili and RTS and JG 12/13 with a bit of 10/15 thrown in. Reiko 13 and wing. Paps is a 6 or a 7, Sowakulu a 6 or an 8, Akira can't play 80 and Sotutu can't get a run at all.
My solution is to start just 5 forwards and 5 backs (doesn't really matter which ones) and have a 13 man bench. After 60mins we can roll out our bench superstars and dominate all comers.
Who's with me?
NZs obsession with shuffling players around in different positions isn't helping. I really don't think Jordie's time at 12 in Super rugby has helped his form at 15 in black this year.
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@voodoo said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@reprobate said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@broughie said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@TheMojoman at super rugby level but has not shown anything at international except against the minnows. I think @Bones was suggesting 1st five but he would have the same problem in Canterbury.
We are talking about DH at 10? Please no. He was barely adequate there for the Crusaders. DH's best position is 15 IMO.
Havili's best position at AB level is on the bench, so we can have a reserve halfback and stack the forward reserves.
There's a theme developing here. We appear to have a squad of guys that rightly or wrongly can't command a starting jumper but are deemed great and flexible reserves, covering multiple positions at an average level. Ardie covers 6-8 (and 12). Sami cant get a start. Barrett 6 or lock. Jordie 15, 12 and wing. BB 10 and 15. Havili and RTS and JG 12/13 with a bit of 10/15 thrown in. Reiko 13 and wing. Paps is a 6 or a 7, Sowakulu a 6 or an 8, Akira can't play 80 and Sotutu can't get a run at all.
My solution is to start just 5 forwards and 5 backs (doesn't really matter which ones) and have a 13 man bench. After 60mins we can roll out our bench superstars and dominate all comers.
Who's with me?
NZs obsession with shuffling players around in different positions isn't helping. I really don't think Jordie's time at 12 in Super rugby has helped his form at 15 in black this year.
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@No-Quarter I guess , although I don't blame Holland for selecting Josh Moorby, the man scored Nine tries in what was his debut super season
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@canefan bring back laumape
@family-man said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@canefan bring back laumape
He got a lot of flak on here. I'm not convinced he couldn't have got better and been an asset for the ABs
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@FakatavaAllBlack As an aside Holland would be a much better backs/attack coach than Moar. The Canes were very good at manipulating defences to generate space / opportunities.
Foz stuck Jordie on the wing for multiple tests but won't select him at 12.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@FakatavaAllBlack As an aside Holland would be a much better backs/attack coach than Moar.
thats a very low bar to jump
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@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
The role of the openside has changed as they aren't getting as many breakdown turnovers now, or any more frequently than any other player.
For that you can blame the GOAT. He was so good WR changed the law. Then Pocockwomble turned being second to the breakdown into an art form. Defences got so good that that little trick isn't worth carrying a limited player.
That goes for passive tacklers who give up ground to try and stay on their feet to be the first on the ball.
In my opinion we're at a point where the team is better off denying territory with punishing defence.
Nah, this is just what we told ourselves when the Aussies had someone who was really good at it and we didn't. All sorts of bullshit about how it wasn't important, and how we could do it too if we wanted to, but were busy doing more important things.
Pocock was one-dimensional sure, but that doesn't mean that what he was really good at wasn't a really fucking useful skill to have. Beirne showed the importance of it last week. And he can do other things too - it's not like being able to get on the ball means a player doesn't have any other skills. Even the one-dimensional Pocock would have been an amazing asset if paired with Whitelock, Retallick, Kaino, Read.
As for our defence, it's not punishing. So we're passive and not looking for turnovers. Woo-hoo.@reprobate said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
The role of the openside has changed as they aren't getting as many breakdown turnovers now, or any more frequently than any other player.
For that you can blame the GOAT. He was so good WR changed the law. Then Pocockwomble turned being second to the breakdown into an art form. Defences got so good that that little trick isn't worth carrying a limited player.
That goes for passive tacklers who give up ground to try and stay on their feet to be the first on the ball.
In my opinion we're at a point where the team is better off denying territory with punishing defence.
Nah, this is just what we told ourselves when the Aussies had someone who was really good at it and we didn't. All sorts of bullshit about how it wasn't important, and how we could do it too if we wanted to, but were busy doing more important things.
Pocock was one-dimensional sure, but that doesn't mean that what he was really good at wasn't a really fucking useful skill to have. Beirne showed the importance of it last week. And he can do other things too - it's not like being able to get on the ball means a player doesn't have any other skills.So not a one trick pony then?
Even the one-dimensional Pocock would have been an amazing asset if paired with Whitelock, Retallick, Kaino, Read.
At the expense of McCaw? Are you Australian?
As for our defence, it's not punishing. So we're passive and not looking for turnovers. Woo-hoo.
Yes, that's been my point.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
The role of the openside has changed as they aren't getting as many breakdown turnovers now, or any more frequently than any other player.
For that you can blame the GOAT. He was so good WR changed the law. Then Pocockwomble turned being second to the breakdown into an art form. Defences got so good that that little trick isn't worth carrying a limited player.
That goes for passive tacklers who give up ground to try and stay on their feet to be the first on the ball.
In my opinion we're at a point where the team is better off denying territory with punishing defence.
Nah, this is just what we told ourselves when the Aussies had someone who was really good at it and we didn't. All sorts of bullshit about how it wasn't important, and how we could do it too if we wanted to, but were busy doing more important things.
Pocock was one-dimensional sure, but that doesn't mean that what he was really good at wasn't a really fucking useful skill to have. Beirne showed the importance of it last week. And he can do other things too - it's not like being able to get on the ball means a player doesn't have any other skills.So not a one trick pony then?
Even the one-dimensional Pocock would have been an amazing asset if paired with Whitelock, Retallick, Kaino, Read.
At the expense of McCaw? Are you Australian?
As for our defence, it's not punishing. So we're passive and not looking for turnovers. Woo-hoo.
Yes, that's been my point.
@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@reprobate said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
The role of the openside has changed as they aren't getting as many breakdown turnovers now, or any more frequently than any other player.
For that you can blame the GOAT. He was so good WR changed the law. Then Pocockwomble turned being second to the breakdown into an art form. Defences got so good that that little trick isn't worth carrying a limited player.
That goes for passive tacklers who give up ground to try and stay on their feet to be the first on the ball.
In my opinion we're at a point where the team is better off denying territory with punishing defence.
Nah, this is just what we told ourselves when the Aussies had someone who was really good at it and we didn't. All sorts of bullshit about how it wasn't important, and how we could do it too if we wanted to, but were busy doing more important things.
Pocock was one-dimensional sure, but that doesn't mean that what he was really good at wasn't a really fucking useful skill to have. Beirne showed the importance of it last week. And he can do other things too - it's not like being able to get on the ball means a player doesn't have any other skills.So not a one trick pony then?
Even the one-dimensional Pocock would have been an amazing asset if paired with Whitelock, Retallick, Kaino, Read.
At the expense of McCaw? Are you Australian?
As for our defence, it's not punishing. So we're passive and not looking for turnovers. Woo-hoo.
Yes, that's been my point.
Jesus. I said he was one-dimensional, and never said anything about McCaw. This is what I'm talking about, any praise of Pocock gets turned into 'no way, McCaw is way better'. Yeah overall of course he was, but that has nothing to do with turning ball over being important.
It's just an example of how different skills in a team of players can work. If you had Kaino's tackling and Read's running and those two great locks, then you could afford a dedicated turnover specialist and it would be effective. If you've got lightweight Hooper and 3 nobodies as the other components, then not so much.
I can't lie Bones your name often makes me think of that Brumbies winger Clyde Rathbone
