All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship
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On the squad issue and given the lack of cattle, might it be time for NZR to follow the South Africans and Australians and open up the potential pool to those playing in overseas clubs? Wasn’t that how Erasmus engineered the Springbok turnaround?
On the standard objection that this will open the floodgates to up and coming NZ players or those early in their AB careers taking the big euros, francs and yen offshore, isn’t it too late for that? It’s happening already. Rugby, like football, is now a globalised sport where moneyed club owners suck up talent regardless of national affiliation or affinity.
Assuming we get past that point, the much more interesting question is are there NZ players overseas worth looking at - particularly in the tight five, blindslide or centres? Stephen Luatua springs to mind, as does Ngani Laumape.
@MrDenmore said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
On the squad issue and given the lack of cattle, might it be time for NZR to follow the South Africans and Australians and open up the potential pool to those playing in overseas clubs? Wasn’t that how Erasmus engineered the Springbok turnaround?
On the standard objection that this will open the floodgates to up and coming NZ players or those early in their AB careers taking the big euros, francs and yen offshore, isn’t it too late for that? It’s happening already. Rugby, like football, is now a globalised sport where moneyed club owners suck up talent regardless of national affiliation or affinity.
Assuming we get past that point, the much more interesting question is are there NZ players overseas worth looking at - particularly in the tight five, blindslide or centres? Stephen Luatua springs to mind, as does Ngani Laumape.
IMO it’s not the lack of players, although we do have some serious question marks at 6 & 12. It’s a lack of game plan and coaching nous to continuously improve/innovate.
TBH we don’t have to do much drastically with our game plan either, just more variation to keep opposing defences guessing. At the moment it’s Smith trying to hit the 3rd or 4th runner and if that fails kick. Surely our game drivers can mix it up with a more direct attack with forwards and 12 hitting straight and then deploy some variation of tip/decoy? Anyway, I’m no expert but seems to be our game plan needs refinement/variation vs wholesale change.
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36 in the squad, same as this series just gone. These are the changes we need to make through injury.
BBBR
LordThese are the other possibles
Tu’inukuafe
Laulala
PGS
Fainga’anuku
Perofeta
Clarke (is he going to come right?)So I see plenty of room for DMac to return. PT plus one other lock. One LH, one TH.
Maybe keep PGS and add Grace at the expense of a back.
DMac can play wing and provide second FB duties. I know there is fear of him being kicked to but he's no worse under the high ball than our taller guys and would be a huge improvement on LF. This would also free JB up to hit the line from deep knowing DMac and Jordan are behind him.
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On the squad issue and given the lack of cattle, might it be time for NZR to follow the South Africans and Australians and open up the potential pool to those playing in overseas clubs? Wasn’t that how Erasmus engineered the Springbok turnaround?
On the standard objection that this will open the floodgates to up and coming NZ players or those early in their AB careers taking the big euros, francs and yen offshore, isn’t it too late for that? It’s happening already. Rugby, like football, is now a globalised sport where moneyed club owners suck up talent regardless of national affiliation or affinity.
Assuming we get past that point, the much more interesting question is are there NZ players overseas worth looking at - particularly in the tight five, blindslide or centres? Stephen Luatua springs to mind, as does Ngani Laumape.
@MrDenmore said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
On the standard objection that this will open the floodgates to up and coming NZ players or those early in their AB careers taking the big euros, francs and yen offshore, isn’t it too late for that?
I don't think so. The vast majority of players (who would be) in the fame for the ABs are in NZ.
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Apart from a competent defence coach, I just want to see options in motion from each ruck. What's the point in Aaron's pass if we're all just standing still?
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If DMac came in it would have to be for Perofeta, which wouldn't be very reasonable assuming Steven hasn't been a disaster at training. Can't see it happening.
When is Ta'avao allowed back? We've surely got to dump at least one prop on either side. A serious weakness.
Big Karl - for de Groot or Hodgman.
At tighthead, frankly, on playing form, Ofa - for one of the Crusaders players, and possibly Jager rather than Newell. Fletcher looks a great scrummaging prospect, but there were a few times this season where his greenness showed - a couple of lineouts. Razor started Jager in the big games, which tells me something. Lower ceiling, but more test ready?
I don't see the hookers under great threat. I'd much rather Taylor than Aumua - his status as No. 1 should end though.
I think Quin Strange will be among the locking contenders to replace BBR.
Grace for PGS - the question mark on him was error rate and he didn't answer that question. Edit: I also wouldn't discount Tom Robinson getting a shot. I picked him for the Ireland series instead of PGS.
A recall for Weber won't be far off the cards - probably for Fakatava, even though he's the way of the future.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
If DMac came in it would have to be for Perofeta, which wouldn't be very reasonable assuming Steven hasn't been a disaster at training. Can't see it happening.
When is Ta'avao allowed back? We've surely got to dump at least one prop on either side. A serious weakness.
Big Karl - for de Groot or Hodgman.
At tighthead, frankly, on playing form, Ofa - for one of the Crusaders players, and possibly Jager rather than Newell. Fletcher looks a great scrummaging prospect, but there were a few times this season where his greenness showed - a couple of lineouts. Razor started Jager in the big games, which tells me something. Lower ceiling, but more test ready?
I don't see the hookers under great threat. I'd much rather Taylor than Aumua - his status as No. 1 should end though.
I think Quin Strange will be among the locking contenders to replace BBR.
Grace for PGS - the question mark on him was error rate and he didn't answer that question.
A recall for Weber won't be far off the cards - probably for Fakatava, even though he's the way of the future.
you have so much belief in Quin Strange! It's very admirable you keep pushing his case
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@Crucial Laulala and Ofa will survive with Ta'avao unavailable for the next 2 tests. Otherwise, you need 2 replacement THs.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Crucial Laulala and Ofa will survive with Ta'avao unavailable for the next 2 tests. Otherwise, you need 2 replacement THs.
If that's the case, yes they will. You can't take two rookies to SA. They're both pretty lucky though.
I'd add 3 to Mojoman's list of serious question marks.
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@Crucial Laulala and Ofa will survive with Ta'avao unavailable for the next 2 tests. Otherwise, you need 2 replacement THs.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Crucial Laulala and Ofa will survive with Ta'avao unavailable for the next 2 tests. Otherwise, you need 2 replacement THs.
Lomax for Laulala. Laulala’s stupid attempt at an offload and early missed tackle that gave Irish momentum plus his general ineffectiveness over two tests can’t be rewarded IMO.
His only saving grace is his supposed scrummaging given we’ve got two games against the Boks.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Crucial Laulala and Ofa will survive with Ta'avao unavailable for the next 2 tests. Otherwise, you need 2 replacement THs.
Lomax for Laulala. Laulala’s stupid attempt at an offload and early missed tackle that gave Irish momentum plus his general ineffectiveness over two tests can’t be rewarded IMO.
His only saving grace is his supposed scrummaging given we’ve got two games against the Boks.
@TheMojoman given we seem to have maybe 2 or more lineouts to each scrum, we should be focussing on having a solid scrum, but a strong lineout, we seem intent on having strong scrummagers, when in the current game, the scrum does not feature as much compared to lineouts.
Then look at how poor some of our props are away form the scrum, you therefore need a solid scrummager who is good at other aspects, Ofa blows hot and cold at scrum time, Hodgman and Groot need to be bought back and one of the Crusaders youngsters too.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
A recall for Weber won't be far off the cards - probably for Fakatava, even though he's the way of the future.
Was the ginga injured? If not then the coaches favoured Fakatava over him for this test series so I'm not sure they'd easily dump him, would they lay that much blame on him for the team's performance.
Would work out best from a Magpies POV though.
@Nepia said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
A recall for Weber won't be far off the cards - probably for Fakatava, even though he's the way of the future.
Was the ginga injured? If not then the coaches favoured Fakatava over him for this test series so I'm not sure they'd easily dump him, would they lay that much blame on him for the team's performance.
Would work out best from a Magpies POV though.
I don't think Christie was injured. I didn't think there was too much between him and FF in Test 1 and Test 2 - both were decent enough. I didn't think FF was good in Test 3, so I'm basing my decision on that - so I could easily be wrong, which would be good for the Mako.
I was pretty surprised they picked the two rookies in the first place - so maybe they'll persist with them, but Foster needs to win, so he won't be worrying about future development.
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I wish I could get excited about this thread. Without a change in the coaching box, this is just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
@sparky said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
I wish I could get excited about this thread. Without a change in the coaching box, this is just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
If only we had the physicality of the Titanic..
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36 in the squad, same as this series just gone. These are the changes we need to make through injury.
BBBR
LordThese are the other possibles
Tu’inukuafe
Laulala
PGS
Fainga’anuku
Perofeta
Clarke (is he going to come right?)So I see plenty of room for DMac to return. PT plus one other lock. One LH, one TH.
Maybe keep PGS and add Grace at the expense of a back.
DMac can play wing and provide second FB duties. I know there is fear of him being kicked to but he's no worse under the high ball than our taller guys and would be a huge improvement on LF. This would also free JB up to hit the line from deep knowing DMac and Jordan are behind him.
@Crucial said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
36 in the squad, same as this series just gone. These are the changes we need to make through injury.
BBBR
LordThese are the other possibles
Tu’inukuafe
Laulala
PGS
Fainga’anuku
Perofeta
Clarke (is he going to come right?)So I see plenty of room for DMac to return. PT plus one other lock. One LH, one TH.
Maybe keep PGS and add Grace at the expense of a back.
DMac can play wing and provide second FB duties. I know there is fear of him being kicked to but he's no worse under the high ball than our taller guys and would be a huge improvement on LF. This would also free JB up to hit the line from deep knowing DMac and Jordan are behind him.
We need more physicality in the forwards and organisation in the backs so bring in DMac?
Fine off the bench I guess but I don't see him rejuvenating the backline (but is he playing overseas at 10, and well? That could be useful. We don't have enough test 10s for the RWC).
Apart from midfield and an aimless 10, I don't think the backline is the problem.. -
@sparky said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
I wish I could get excited about this thread. Without a change in the coaching box, this is just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
If only we had the physicality of the Titanic..
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@sparky said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
I wish I could get excited about this thread. Without a change in the coaching box, this is just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
If only we had the physicality of the Titanic..
Was outmatched by a chunk of frozen water
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@Crucial Laulala and Ofa will survive with Ta'avao unavailable for the next 2 tests. Otherwise, you need 2 replacement THs.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Crucial Laulala and Ofa will survive with Ta'avao unavailable for the next 2 tests. Otherwise, you need 2 replacement THs.
Isn't Ta'avao only got one more game? If he did the traning thing it was reduced to 2 games, and pretty sure he may of been able to lose that in a Club game or something dodgy like that.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@sparky said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
I wish I could get excited about this thread. Without a change in the coaching box, this is just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
If only we had the physicality of the Titanic..
Was outmatched by a chunk of frozen water
@Marty said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@sparky said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
I wish I could get excited about this thread. Without a change in the coaching box, this is just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
If only we had the physicality of the Titanic..
Was outmatched by a chunk of frozen water
Yes but the All Blacks sank quicker.
(Oh crap, I nearly typed All Blanks).
add: Plus the Titanic had fire in the engine room (ok coal bunker). Oh to have that in the national team...
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/coal-fire-may-have-helped-sink-titanic-180961699/ -
@Crucial said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
36 in the squad, same as this series just gone. These are the changes we need to make through injury.
BBBR
LordThese are the other possibles
Tu’inukuafe
Laulala
PGS
Fainga’anuku
Perofeta
Clarke (is he going to come right?)So I see plenty of room for DMac to return. PT plus one other lock. One LH, one TH.
Maybe keep PGS and add Grace at the expense of a back.
DMac can play wing and provide second FB duties. I know there is fear of him being kicked to but he's no worse under the high ball than our taller guys and would be a huge improvement on LF. This would also free JB up to hit the line from deep knowing DMac and Jordan are behind him.
We need more physicality in the forwards and organisation in the backs so bring in DMac?
Fine off the bench I guess but I don't see him rejuvenating the backline (but is he playing overseas at 10, and well? That could be useful. We don't have enough test 10s for the RWC).
Apart from midfield and an aimless 10, I don't think the backline is the problem..@nostrildamus said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Crucial said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
36 in the squad, same as this series just gone. These are the changes we need to make through injury.
BBBR
LordThese are the other possibles
Tu’inukuafe
Laulala
PGS
Fainga’anuku
Perofeta
Clarke (is he going to come right?)So I see plenty of room for DMac to return. PT plus one other lock. One LH, one TH.
Maybe keep PGS and add Grace at the expense of a back.
DMac can play wing and provide second FB duties. I know there is fear of him being kicked to but he's no worse under the high ball than our taller guys and would be a huge improvement on LF. This would also free JB up to hit the line from deep knowing DMac and Jordan are behind him.
We need more physicality in the forwards and organisation in the backs so bring in DMac?
Fine off the bench I guess but I don't see him rejuvenating the backline (but is he playing overseas at 10, and well? That could be useful. We don't have enough test 10s for the RWC).
Apart from midfield and an aimless 10, I don't think the backline is the problem..When did I say he would be the answer? I said he may be a better option to have than LF or may take Clarke's place is he isn't going to overcome his injury problems.
BTW DMac is actually a good organiser in the backs. Constantly points out positional needs to his fellow back three players.
I think that IF we can get cleaner ball and distribute it well a back three sometime during a game of JB, Jordan and DMac could be a good weapon to have. -
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
G’day Danny, hoped you enjoyed the weekend in Wellington? I’m sure Mike has been moaning your ear off about how poor the ABs are
Any changes will depend on who is actually coaching and selecting the side I suppose.
De Groot, newell need to come in. I would rather have ramano than Patty T tbh and Cullen Grace needs to come into the mix.
Backs are largely the right group but potentially worth being McKenzie in.
Frankly, it’s probably immaterial what the squad looks like as I have lost all faith that our coaching group has the ability to create a strong side, with a coherent gameplan, that is capable of winning these games.
Take decisive action and change that now and we can start to look forward. As it stands, lots of people won’t even bother to watch it; live or on demand.
Actually Grubs, was a bloody great test to be at, probably one of the best humoured crowds I can remember being with for quite some time,. Mike was actually not to whiney, he like me though pissed at a few things thought the Irish were bloody good (I thought better than Lions team in 2017, just an opinion).
Romano wouldn't get looked at, realistically he's about 3 years to late, and probaly not able to handle pace of test rugby.
I not sure who is doing defence for ABs , but there is some work needs doing there, apart from that, I think we need a solid 6 who actually runs in close to breakdowns etc to carry ball forward (I reckon it will be either Barrett or Frizzel so much , but that type of carrier) for instance, though not saying Frizzel), as we need targets closer in to generate next phase ball, at moment Akira seems to range a bit wide. DMac won't come in as he doesn't actually start his NZR contract until he plays NPC rugby I think, where as Pat T was on sabbatical and always under contract. Anyway just about over the disappointment of first half, and looking forward to squad naming. No way they will change much in coaching before EOYT even if they want to as there simply no time to set anyone in.@Dan54 said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
DMac won't come in as he doesn't actually start his NZR contract until he plays NPC rugby I think, where as Pat T was on sabbatical and always under contract.
Not quite right. PT was in the same spot as DMac eligibility wise.
"At the All Blacks request, the New Zealand Rugby board has used its discretion to sign off Patrick Tuipulotu immediately joining the All Blacks squad as a replacement player after his return from a six month stint in Japan."
PT had played club rugby, as has DMac.
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@Marty said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@sparky said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
I wish I could get excited about this thread. Without a change in the coaching box, this is just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
If only we had the physicality of the Titanic..
Was outmatched by a chunk of frozen water
Yes but the All Blacks sank quicker.
(Oh crap, I nearly typed All Blanks).
add: Plus the Titanic had fire in the engine room (ok coal bunker). Oh to have that in the national team...
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/coal-fire-may-have-helped-sink-titanic-180961699/@nostrildamus I think your Titanic metaphor has a lot of legs in it
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Crucial Laulala and Ofa will survive with Ta'avao unavailable for the next 2 tests. Otherwise, you need 2 replacement THs.
Isn't Ta'avao only got one more game? If he did the traning thing it was reduced to 2 games, and pretty sure he may of been able to lose that in a Club game or something dodgy like that.
@Dan54 said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Crucial Laulala and Ofa will survive with Ta'avao unavailable for the next 2 tests. Otherwise, you need 2 replacement THs.
Isn't Ta'avao only got one more game? If he did the traning thing it was reduced to 2 games, and pretty sure he may of been able to lose that in a Club game or something dodgy like that.
Yes, I think it can be reduced to 2 games, but it would be pointless to take him to SA if he is unavailable for the 1st test at least.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
DMac won't come in as he doesn't actually start his NZR contract until he plays NPC rugby I think, where as Pat T was on sabbatical and always under contract.
Not quite right. PT was in the same spot as DMac eligibility wise.
"At the All Blacks request, the New Zealand Rugby board has used its discretion to sign off Patrick Tuipulotu immediately joining the All Blacks squad as a replacement player after his return from a six month stint in Japan."
PT had played club rugby, as has DMac.
@Crucial said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
DMac won't come in as he doesn't actually start his NZR contract until he plays NPC rugby I think, where as Pat T was on sabbatical and always under contract.
Not quite right. PT was in the same spot as DMac eligibility wise.
"At the All Blacks request, the New Zealand Rugby board has used its discretion to sign off Patrick Tuipulotu immediately joining the All Blacks squad as a replacement player after his return from a six month stint in Japan."
PT had played club rugby, as has DMac.
Ok mate, I was under the impression that PT actually took a sabbatical as part of contract, and was still signed to Blues etc, where as DMac just let his contract lapse, why some thought maybe he would stay there and PT was always coming back. I know they still had to play when they got back,. No worries mate my mistake.
