Poll All Black Captain
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@Crucial said in Vote All Black Captain:
Whitelock is a fine cap but the risk that we have to change again soon is big. We also need to get our understudy locks time on the field and Whitelock as cap upsets that.
Dalton P hasn’t even earned his place in the side and has appeared like he’s still finding his feet. Let him get some time to get settled.
There is no one else except Ardie. It doesn’t help the loose forward situation unless he starts at 7 and moves to 8 later in the game though.
It will be Ardie.Against what opposition does Whitelock not start? He's starting and probably playing 80 IMO.
And it's especially easy to give other locks gametime when Retallick (and possibly Barrett) are unavailable.
Ardie's not captaincy material fullstop. And neither is Scott Barrett. Listening to either of them is painful. Whitelock is by far the most coherent and referee dialogue etc is important.
@Frye said in Vote All Black Captain:
@Crucial said in Vote All Black Captain:
Whitelock is a fine cap but the risk that we have to change again soon is big. We also need to get our understudy locks time on the field and Whitelock as cap upsets that.
Dalton P hasn’t even earned his place in the side and has appeared like he’s still finding his feet. Let him get some time to get settled.
There is no one else except Ardie. It doesn’t help the loose forward situation unless he starts at 7 and moves to 8 later in the game though.
It will be Ardie.Against what opposition does Whitelock not start? He's starting and probably playing 80 IMO.
And it's especially easy to give other locks gametime when Retallick (and possibly Barrett) are unavailable.
Ardie's not captaincy material fullstop. And neither is Scott Barrett. Listening to either of them is painful. Whitelock is by far the most coherent and referee dialogue etc is important.
My concern, possibly unfounded is that Whitelock is one injury away from retirement. Age and recovery time don't go well together. All I mean is that the risk is higher.
The players will probably tell you otherwise regarding whether they listen to Ardie (or find him painful - weird comment). He is hugely respected among the players.
As for being coherent? I truly do not know what on earth you mean here. Have you ever had a chat to the man? No more or less coherent than anyone else you would meet.
My guess is that many players that know the guy would hold your post up as an example of the public not having a clue but having plenty of opinions. -
@Frye said in Vote All Black Captain:
@Crucial said in Vote All Black Captain:
Whitelock is a fine cap but the risk that we have to change again soon is big. We also need to get our understudy locks time on the field and Whitelock as cap upsets that.
Dalton P hasn’t even earned his place in the side and has appeared like he’s still finding his feet. Let him get some time to get settled.
There is no one else except Ardie. It doesn’t help the loose forward situation unless he starts at 7 and moves to 8 later in the game though.
It will be Ardie.Against what opposition does Whitelock not start? He's starting and probably playing 80 IMO.
And it's especially easy to give other locks gametime when Retallick (and possibly Barrett) are unavailable.
Ardie's not captaincy material fullstop. And neither is Scott Barrett. Listening to either of them is painful. Whitelock is by far the most coherent and referee dialogue etc is important.
My concern, possibly unfounded is that Whitelock is one injury away from retirement. Age and recovery time don't go well together. All I mean is that the risk is higher.
The players will probably tell you otherwise regarding whether they listen to Ardie (or find him painful - weird comment). He is hugely respected among the players.
As for being coherent? I truly do not know what on earth you mean here. Have you ever had a chat to the man? No more or less coherent than anyone else you would meet.
My guess is that many players that know the guy would hold your post up as an example of the public not having a clue but having plenty of opinions.@Crucial respecting someone's abilities on the pitch is a world away from respecting what someone thinks or says. We've all encountered many guys like this I'm sure (for those of us that have played).
Whitelock will make the world cup, and has a couple of big performances left in him. Just as he did in the Super final. He's been extremely durable up to this point so doesn't really make sense to not bet on him now.
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Savea or Scott Barrett
Hear me out on Barrett, I look at someone like Victor Matfield who played on the edge and if he had played the way he did in the last couple of years would’ve seen a few cards. I think Barrett is going to be a starter over the next few years.
Him and Ardie are only a month apart in age.
@ACT-Crusader said in Vote All Black Captain:
Savea or Scott Barrett
Hear me out on Barrett, I look at someone like Victor Matfield who played on the edge and if he had played the way he did in the last couple of years would’ve seen a few cards. I think Barrett is going to be a starter over the next few years.
Him and Ardie are only a month apart in age.
the greatest lineout forward of all time has a few more credits in the bank than old scottie though aye?
look, i sorta get what you are saying, but the simple fact is this is 2022, and we are playing red card lottery every game. Scott Barrett had two instances in the first test of the series where he knew, as soon as he did it, that he had fucked up, because i saw him instinctively look at an official (in that way you can't help but spin your head if you edge one). now, he didn't fuck up, because nothing came from either of them. But he skates a fine line.
He probably is nailed on to start you are right, because the selectors have a hard-on for him. But you are going to take a risk
Two additional points
Is he smart enough to do a good job (i don't know anything about him aside from onfield)
I have seen the making of some talented but wayward players is giving them responsibility. -
@sparky said in Vote All Black Captain:
- Paps
- Ardie Savea
- Aaron Smith
yeah, i'd go with smith, still one of if not the first name on the sheet, captioned them before and captained the highlanders for years
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This thread started off an absolute mess. I would be interested in an actual poll though - maybe one of the mods could fix it up? With options:
Cane
Whitelock
Savea
S Barrett
Papalii
Smith
B Barrett
Retallick
Other -
@ACT-Crusader said in Vote All Black Captain:
Savea or Scott Barrett
Hear me out on Barrett, I look at someone like Victor Matfield who played on the edge and if he had played the way he did in the last couple of years would’ve seen a few cards. I think Barrett is going to be a starter over the next few years.
Him and Ardie are only a month apart in age.
the greatest lineout forward of all time has a few more credits in the bank than old scottie though aye?
look, i sorta get what you are saying, but the simple fact is this is 2022, and we are playing red card lottery every game. Scott Barrett had two instances in the first test of the series where he knew, as soon as he did it, that he had fucked up, because i saw him instinctively look at an official (in that way you can't help but spin your head if you edge one). now, he didn't fuck up, because nothing came from either of them. But he skates a fine line.
He probably is nailed on to start you are right, because the selectors have a hard-on for him. But you are going to take a risk
Two additional points
Is he smart enough to do a good job (i don't know anything about him aside from onfield)
I have seen the making of some talented but wayward players is giving them responsibility.@mariner4life Scott Barrett has captained the Crusaders for the last 2-3 years, with David Havili and Codie Taylor as his deputies. He's done countless post-match interviews and pressers. He's smart enough and experienced enough. My only issue with him as a captain is his tackle technique. It's why I'd go for Whitelock until the end of the RWC.
I've doubts about Ardie as captain because of his decision-making last year and also his lack of leadership in some of the Hurricanes' games, most notably the QF against the Brumbies.
Also, I don't think halfbacks and first fives generally make good captains. They already have alot on their plate as game drivers; let them focus on that. You saw how that went terribly wrong for BB in the SRP final.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Vote All Black Captain:
Savea or Scott Barrett
Hear me out on Barrett, I look at someone like Victor Matfield who played on the edge and if he had played the way he did in the last couple of years would’ve seen a few cards. I think Barrett is going to be a starter over the next few years.
Him and Ardie are only a month apart in age.
the greatest lineout forward of all time has a few more credits in the bank than old scottie though aye?
look, i sorta get what you are saying, but the simple fact is this is 2022, and we are playing red card lottery every game. Scott Barrett had two instances in the first test of the series where he knew, as soon as he did it, that he had fucked up, because i saw him instinctively look at an official (in that way you can't help but spin your head if you edge one). now, he didn't fuck up, because nothing came from either of them. But he skates a fine line.
He probably is nailed on to start you are right, because the selectors have a hard-on for him. But you are going to take a risk
Two additional points
Is he smart enough to do a good job (i don't know anything about him aside from onfield)
I have seen the making of some talented but wayward players is giving them responsibility.@mariner4life no doubt about Matfield and he was fortunate to have been made permanent captain later in his career given the long tenure of Smit.
On Barrett, I used to worry about his discipline every game, but I think this season for the Saders (as captain) has seen him mature as player and leader. Less erratic which means his play has improved also.
He’s always had a good engine because of his running background, but his output is starting to match the athletic ability in my view.
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There’s a poll on the first post now
Thanks @Kiwiwomble
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@mariner4life no doubt about Matfield and he was fortunate to have been made permanent captain later in his career given the long tenure of Smit.
On Barrett, I used to worry about his discipline every game, but I think this season for the Saders (as captain) has seen him mature as player and leader. Less erratic which means his play has improved also.
He’s always had a good engine because of his running background, but his output is starting to match the athletic ability in my view.
@ACT-Crusader said in Poll All Black Captain:
@mariner4life no doubt about Matfield and he was fortunate to have been made permanent captain later in his career given the long tenure of Smit.
On Barrett, I used to worry about his discipline every game, but I think this season for the Saders (as captain) has seen him mature as player and leader. Less erratic which means his play has improved also.
He’s always had a good engine because of his running background, but his output is starting to match the athletic ability in my view.
still have my doubts as a 6, but definitely coming around to him starting at lock
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@Frye said in Poll All Black Captain:
"atlternative"
I don't think this person is a real doctor...
Could be if someone is typing from the handwriting.
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Savea or Scott Barrett
Hear me out on Barrett, I look at someone like Victor Matfield who played on the edge and if he had played the way he did in the last couple of years would’ve seen a few cards. I think Barrett is going to be a starter over the next few years.
Him and Ardie are only a month apart in age.
@ACT-Crusader said in Poll All Black Captain:
I look at someone like Victor Matfield who played on the edge and if he had played the way he did in the last couple of years would’ve seen a few cardsBut Matfield would have changed to be just inside the newer rules. Always a smart player.
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@mariner4life no doubt about Matfield and he was fortunate to have been made permanent captain later in his career given the long tenure of Smit.
On Barrett, I used to worry about his discipline every game, but I think this season for the Saders (as captain) has seen him mature as player and leader. Less erratic which means his play has improved also.
He’s always had a good engine because of his running background, but his output is starting to match the athletic ability in my view.
@ACT-Crusader said in Poll All Black Captain:
On Barrett, I used to worry about his discipline every game, but I think this season for the Saders (as captain) has seen him mature as player and leader. Less erratic which means his play has improved also.
Red card for a stupid tackle
Unnecessary shoulder first cleanouts at rucks in Tests
Good player, but he's the highest risk of getting a card in the team
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@ACT-Crusader said in Poll All Black Captain:
On Barrett, I used to worry about his discipline every game, but I think this season for the Saders (as captain) has seen him mature as player and leader. Less erratic which means his play has improved also.
Red card for a stupid tackle
Unnecessary shoulder first cleanouts at rucks in Tests
Good player, but he's the highest risk of getting a card in the team
@nzzp said in Poll All Black Captain:
@ACT-Crusader said in Poll All Black Captain:
On Barrett, I used to worry about his discipline every game, but I think this season for the Saders (as captain) has seen him mature as player and leader. Less erratic which means his play has improved also.
Red card for a stupid tackle
Unnecessary shoulder first cleanouts at rucks in Tests
Good player, but he's the highest risk of getting a card in the team
I used to think that, but not anymore.
Plus, I think Ofa is a higher risk.
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can a mod merge this with the other thread so we can have an actual Poll?
@Kiwiwomble said in Poll All Black Captain:
can a mod merge this with the other thread so we can have an actual Poll?
Am I supposed to vote for one, many or all?
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@Kiwiwomble said in Poll All Black Captain:
can a mod merge this with the other thread so we can have an actual Poll?
Am I supposed to vote for one, many or all?
@antipodean think i allowed 3 votes
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@antipodean think i allowed 3 votes
@Kiwiwomble 3 votes was the idea
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@nzzp said in Poll All Black Captain:
@ACT-Crusader said in Poll All Black Captain:
On Barrett, I used to worry about his discipline every game, but I think this season for the Saders (as captain) has seen him mature as player and leader. Less erratic which means his play has improved also.
Red card for a stupid tackle
Unnecessary shoulder first cleanouts at rucks in Tests
Good player, but he's the highest risk of getting a card in the team
I used to think that, but not anymore.
Plus, I think Ofa is a higher risk.
@ACT-Crusader said in Poll All Black Captain:
Plus, I think Ofa is a higher risk.
Ofa's up there with the risk, but not getting the same minutes.
Angus' upright style has a risk as well - but again, he shouldn't be getting minutes.
Nepo's brain fart in Super puts him up there, but hopefully it's isolated.
None of those guys are in the discussion for captaincy though
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@nzzp said in Poll All Black Captain:
@ACT-Crusader said in Poll All Black Captain:
On Barrett, I used to worry about his discipline every game, but I think this season for the Saders (as captain) has seen him mature as player and leader. Less erratic which means his play has improved also.
Red card for a stupid tackle
Unnecessary shoulder first cleanouts at rucks in Tests
Good player, but he's the highest risk of getting a card in the team
I used to think that, but not anymore.
Plus, I think Ofa is a higher risk.
@ACT-Crusader said in Poll All Black Captain:
@nzzp said in Poll All Black Captain:
@ACT-Crusader said in Poll All Black Captain:
On Barrett, I used to worry about his discipline every game, but I think this season for the Saders (as captain) has seen him mature as player and leader. Less erratic which means his play has improved also.
Red card for a stupid tackle
Unnecessary shoulder first cleanouts at rucks in Tests
Good player, but he's the highest risk of getting a card in the team
I used to think that, but not anymore.
Plus, I think Ofa is a higher risk.
its was only test 2 when he did this...so i think there is still a risk
