The Worst All Blacks results ...
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@Nepia said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@MN5 said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Nepia said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@MN5 said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Nepia said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@mikedogz said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
Laurie Mains era except for World Cup. 1998, Early 2000's.
I don't think the Mains era was that bad, but it was all over the show. Series win over a strong Lions team, series win over a strong-ish Boks team, a very close series loss to an awesome Oz team, a series loss to the try from the end of the world. In most of those matched good rugby was played by both sides.
@MajorRage said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
Worst one-off is quarter final RWC 2007. Easily. That was a killer.
03 semi is worst for me.
@booboo said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
Was it 1973 when we lost to ourselves, NZ Universities and England ... ?
Yeah I think so, thank god I wasn't around for the early 70s.
Plus he gave debuts to Jonah, Goldie, Osbourne, Merhts, Kronfeld and others I may have missed.
He also almost won the WC and the team was the most exciting one on display by far.
Off topic slightly but not sure I’d call the Lions team too strong, the midweek team were a bunch of disorganised pass heads apparently.
I thought their top team was decent but due to them being locked in the midweek team decided to go on holiday.
Bit of a mixture from memory. Hastings, Evans, Gibbs, Guscott, Underwood, Andrew etc were all greats but some of the Scottish tight forwards who somehow got test caps were very journeymanish
Damn, now I'm going to have to look it up - I thought it was mostly English forwards like Bayfield, Clarke, Leonard, Winterbottom and the young fulla Johnson etc.
Edit: Looks like the coach was drunk or there were injuries for the first test when the three Scots got a start. It was the Englishmen and Popplewell for the rest of the tests.
Yeah I couldn’t find it online at first but three Scots in the tight five was beyond ridiculous. Plodders the lot of them.
@MN5 said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Nepia said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@MN5 said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Nepia said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@MN5 said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Nepia said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@mikedogz said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
Laurie Mains era except for World Cup. 1998, Early 2000's.
I don't think the Mains era was that bad, but it was all over the show. Series win over a strong Lions team, series win over a strong-ish Boks team, a very close series loss to an awesome Oz team, a series loss to the try from the end of the world. In most of those matched good rugby was played by both sides.
@MajorRage said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
Worst one-off is quarter final RWC 2007. Easily. That was a killer.
03 semi is worst for me.
@booboo said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
Was it 1973 when we lost to ourselves, NZ Universities and England ... ?
Yeah I think so, thank god I wasn't around for the early 70s.
Plus he gave debuts to Jonah, Goldie, Osbourne, Merhts, Kronfeld and others I may have missed.
He also almost won the WC and the team was the most exciting one on display by far.
Off topic slightly but not sure I’d call the Lions team too strong, the midweek team were a bunch of disorganised pass heads apparently.
I thought their top team was decent but due to them being locked in the midweek team decided to go on holiday.
Bit of a mixture from memory. Hastings, Evans, Gibbs, Guscott, Underwood, Andrew etc were all greats but some of the Scottish tight forwards who somehow got test caps were very journeymanish
Damn, now I'm going to have to look it up - I thought it was mostly English forwards like Bayfield, Clarke, Leonard, Winterbottom and the young fulla Johnson etc.
Edit: Looks like the coach was drunk or there were injuries for the first test when the three Scots got a start. It was the Englishmen and Popplewell for the rest of the tests.
Yeah I couldn’t find it online at first but three Scots in the tight five was beyond ridiculous. Plodders the lot of them.
By international standards or those exemplary Scottish standards?
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@MajorRage said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
Worst one-off is quarter final RWC 2007. Easily. That was a killer.
Hard to think of a more shit time than end of last year to now though.
In 1998 I at least felt we were a fair way off the pace but building something. Not now. Not even close.
Not RWC 2003 time when we were upended by an H G Well villain?
https://www.facebook.com/rugbyworldcup/videos/mortlocks-try-in-2003/564663523956518/@nostrildamus no way. 2007 was a thousand times worst than 03.
2007 still remains the biggest head scratcher of a match for me. After the result I didn’t want to get out of bed the whole day.
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The 04 loss to the Boks when they put 40 on us was pretty gut wrenching low moment for me.
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The 04 loss to the Boks when they put 40 on us was pretty gut wrenching low moment for me.
@ACT-Crusader said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
The 04 loss to the Boks when they put 40 on us was pretty gut wrenching low moment for me.
Boks played very well that day. I'd say 2007 was worse. I was there that day. Atmosphere was surreal...thousands of pro-French Irish supporters making helluva noise, the ABs starting ok, then just seizing like rabbits in the headlights.
1999 was a low day, but I think that's more due to the fact the 1st half had gone ok with Lomu in his usual destructive mood. Then the French took magic pills at half-time and every pass and bounce of the ball went their way.
But 2007 is the one that stands out for me, if only because I'd seen the ABs put near 50 on the French in Lyon less than 12 months before. Goes to show how much can change in 12 months
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I don’t think this era can be topped.
First loss to Argentina. Ever.
Consecutive losses to Ireland at home.
Three losses of 10 or more points in a row.
Wales and Scotland licking their lips at the end of the year.
98 wasn’t quite as bad when you consider South Africa had a brilliant team on a 17 match unbeaten streak and Australia won the WC the following year.
@MN5 said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
I don’t think this era can be topped.
Oh yes it can....
1970-71 - Three Test losses on the trot
1971 - First series loss to the Lions
1972 - First loss to an England club side (twice)
1972 - First draw with an Irish club side
1973 - First time we didn't win against Ireland (10-10 draw)
1973 - Lost to France for the first time in 20 years
1973 - Lost to the NZ Juniors
1973 - Lost to a NZ Invitation Side
1973 - First loss to England at home (Eden Park)Still, on the bright side, things did pick up after about 5 years and 3-4 new coaches
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@ACT-Crusader said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
The 04 loss to the Boks when they put 40 on us was pretty gut wrenching low moment for me.
Boks played very well that day. I'd say 2007 was worse. I was there that day. Atmosphere was surreal...thousands of pro-French Irish supporters making helluva noise, the ABs starting ok, then just seizing like rabbits in the headlights.
1999 was a low day, but I think that's more due to the fact the 1st half had gone ok with Lomu in his usual destructive mood. Then the French took magic pills at half-time and every pass and bounce of the ball went their way.
But 2007 is the one that stands out for me, if only because I'd seen the ABs put near 50 on the French in Lyon less than 12 months before. Goes to show how much can change in 12 months
@stodders said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
Boks played very well that day. I'd say 2007 was worse. I was there that day. Atmosphere was surreal...thousands of pro-French Irish supporters making helluva noise, the ABs starting ok, then just seizing like rabbits in the headlights.
So was I. Was meant to meet up with @PdP for a beer pre or post- game but we didn't quite manage it. Probably a good thing.
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The 04 loss to the Boks when they put 40 on us was pretty gut wrenching low moment for me.
@ACT-Crusader Yeah agree with 04 where we were sort of rebuilding. Marius Joubert scored 3 from memory, and yeah, 07 just came outta nowhere against an out of sorts French side.
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@ACT-Crusader Yeah agree with 04 where we were sort of rebuilding. Marius Joubert scored 3 from memory, and yeah, 07 just came outta nowhere against an out of sorts French side.
@African-Monkey said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@ACT-Crusader Yeah agree with 04 where we were sort of rebuilding. Marius Joubert scored 3 from memory, and yeah, 07 just came outta nowhere against an out of sorts French side.
ABs were crap in 04 because they were moving away from the Mitchell/Deans soft belly to a more confrontational approach under Henry. The cattle weren't ready to play this way which is why the likes of Norm Maxwell, Chris Jack and even Troy Flavell were used.
This was the team that day:
NEW ZEALAND: Muliaina; Howlett, Umaga (capt), Tuitupou, Rokocoko; Mehrtens, Marshall; Meeuws, Mealamu, Hayman, Jack, Maling, Gibbes, Holah, Rush. Replacements: Hore, Somerville, Tuiali'i, Newby, Kelleher, Evans, Mauger.
Good backline, although Mauger was a better foil for Umaga but could only really be done when Carter emerged so Mehrtens defensive weakness didn't have to be plugged :-), good front row...then the problems start.
Jack and Maling as the second rows. And people think the cupboard is bare now?!?
Gibbes/Holah/Rush - Holah was ace, but the other two were mere placeholders.
On the subs bench, backs are ok. Hore and Somerville and the bench were fine, Tuiali'i had huge potential but rarely delivered and Craig Newby...he was the 2004 Luke Jacobsen
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@African-Monkey said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@ACT-Crusader Yeah agree with 04 where we were sort of rebuilding. Marius Joubert scored 3 from memory, and yeah, 07 just came outta nowhere against an out of sorts French side.
ABs were crap in 04 because they were moving away from the Mitchell/Deans soft belly to a more confrontational approach under Henry. The cattle weren't ready to play this way which is why the likes of Norm Maxwell, Chris Jack and even Troy Flavell were used.
This was the team that day:
NEW ZEALAND: Muliaina; Howlett, Umaga (capt), Tuitupou, Rokocoko; Mehrtens, Marshall; Meeuws, Mealamu, Hayman, Jack, Maling, Gibbes, Holah, Rush. Replacements: Hore, Somerville, Tuiali'i, Newby, Kelleher, Evans, Mauger.
Good backline, although Mauger was a better foil for Umaga but could only really be done when Carter emerged so Mehrtens defensive weakness didn't have to be plugged :-), good front row...then the problems start.
Jack and Maling as the second rows. And people think the cupboard is bare now?!?
Gibbes/Holah/Rush - Holah was ace, but the other two were mere placeholders.
On the subs bench, backs are ok. Hore and Somerville and the bench were fine, Tuiali'i had huge potential but rarely delivered and Craig Newby...he was the 2004 Luke Jacobsen
I think you’re being a bit harsh on Chris Jack and Jonno Gibbes. OK neither all time greats but both pretty good. Jack got a load of caps from memory and Gibbes lost out to the suitcase for quite a while? How did that happen?
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I think you’re being a bit harsh on Chris Jack and Jonno Gibbes. OK neither all time greats but both pretty good. Jack got a load of caps from memory and Gibbes lost out to the suitcase for quite a while? How did that happen?
@Catogrande said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
I think you’re being a bit harsh on Chris Jack and Jonno Gibbes. OK neither all time greats but both pretty good. Jack got a load of caps from memory and Gibbes lost out to the suitcase for quite a while? How did that happen?
Chris Jack was great at Super Rugby level. He wasn't a test lock. Too loose and too many errors.
Fair point about Jono Gibbes. Just lacked the pace to be a great 6. Hard bugger though.
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@Catogrande said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
I think you’re being a bit harsh on Chris Jack and Jonno Gibbes. OK neither all time greats but both pretty good. Jack got a load of caps from memory and Gibbes lost out to the suitcase for quite a while? How did that happen?
Chris Jack was great at Super Rugby level. He wasn't a test lock. Too loose and too many errors.
Fair point about Jono Gibbes. Just lacked the pace to be a great 6. Hard bugger though.
S’funny. At the time I saw him as your pre-eminent lock. Athletic, good line out forward, ok in the maul and as a carrier. Maybe a bit of a ruck inspector. Not sure who you’d have had above him at the time?
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This is by far the worst coached All Blacks in my time following them since the mid-80s. No confidence in squad, a lack of attention to detail and little sense of direction. Too many out of form players or players in decline given a free pass because they are pals of the Head Coach.
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S’funny. At the time I saw him as your pre-eminent lock. Athletic, good line out forward, ok in the maul and as a carrier. Maybe a bit of a ruck inspector. Not sure who you’d have had above him at the time?
@Catogrande said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
S’funny. At the time I saw him as your pre-eminent lock. Athletic, good line out forward, ok in the maul and as a carrier. Maybe a bit of a ruck inspector. Not sure who you’d have had above him at the time?
Yeah Jack was good. Him and Williams did a great job although Whitelock and Retallick were a level above.
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S’funny. At the time I saw him as your pre-eminent lock. Athletic, good line out forward, ok in the maul and as a carrier. Maybe a bit of a ruck inspector. Not sure who you’d have had above him at the time?
@Catogrande said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
S’funny. At the time I saw him as your pre-eminent lock. Athletic, good line out forward, ok in the maul and as a carrier. Maybe a bit of a ruck inspector. Not sure who you’d have had above him at the time?
Don't get me wrong, he was good for all the attributes that you listed.
I'm not saying there were better either. My original comment was that he wasn't what Henry needed to play the gameplan he wanted. He didn't have the edge for test rugby and went missing when things became attritional. Like you, I used to watch him play super rugby and think if he could just transfer that form to the international game he'd be world class. Yet he seldom did it.
Keith Robinson was not as athletic or as talented as Jack, but he could shift bodies and did the dirty work needed at test level.
I'm sure there are Cantabrians frothing at the mouth about these sacrilegious words about one of their own
Just an opinion. -
My first memories of watching rugby was the 95 world cup, where I became absolutely obsessed with Jonah Lomu. I can still remember how absolutely gutted I was losing the final, I just couldn't wrap my young brain around how we could lose when we had Lomu on our team. My world collapsed around me that day haha.
Next worst for me is the 07 quarter, I was convinced we were comfortably the best team in the world at that point (well we were TBF), so again that was really difficult to take, especially with Barnes freezing like a bunny on the big stage and deciding to award zero penalties for 60 minutes which today is still one of the most insane refereeing performances I have witnessed.
But for me in terms of the ABs performance being so bad it was embarrassing, our first ever loss to Argentina is probably the worst for me. That wasn't a good Argentina side, there's no way we should be losing that match, that was fucking diabolical and Foster should have been axed when the full time whistle blew.
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My first memories of watching rugby was the 95 world cup, where I became absolutely obsessed with Jonah Lomu. I can still remember how absolutely gutted I was losing the final, I just couldn't wrap my young brain around how we could lose when we had Lomu on our team. My world collapsed around me that day haha.
Next worst for me is the 07 quarter, I was convinced we were comfortably the best team in the world at that point (well we were TBF), so again that was really difficult to take, especially with Barnes freezing like a bunny on the big stage and deciding to award zero penalties for 60 minutes which today is still one of the most insane refereeing performances I have witnessed.
But for me in terms of the ABs performance being so bad it was embarrassing, our first ever loss to Argentina is probably the worst for me. That wasn't a good Argentina side, there's no way we should be losing that match, that was fucking diabolical and Foster should have been axed when the full time whistle blew.
@No-Quarter said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
My first memories of watching rugby was the 95 world cup, where I became absolutely obsessed with Jonah Lomu. I can still remember how absolutely gutted I was losing the final, I just couldn't wrap my young brain around how we could lose when we had Lomu on our team. My world collapsed around me that day haha.
Next worst for me is the 07 quarter, I was convinced we were comfortably the best team in the world at that point (well we were TBF), so again that was really difficult to take, especially with Barnes freezing like a bunny on the big stage and deciding to award zero penalties for 60 minutes which today is still one of the most insane refereeing performances I have witnessed.
But for me in terms of the ABs performance being so bad it was embarrassing, our first ever loss to Argentina is probably the worst for me. That wasn't a good Argentina side, there's no way we should be losing that match, that was fucking diabolical and Foster should have been axed when the full time whistle blew.
He has the dubious distinction of being able to put his name to several of our worst ever performances (regardless of the actual result)
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@Catogrande said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
S’funny. At the time I saw him as your pre-eminent lock. Athletic, good line out forward, ok in the maul and as a carrier. Maybe a bit of a ruck inspector. Not sure who you’d have had above him at the time?
Don't get me wrong, he was good for all the attributes that you listed.
I'm not saying there were better either. My original comment was that he wasn't what Henry needed to play the gameplan he wanted. He didn't have the edge for test rugby and went missing when things became attritional. Like you, I used to watch him play super rugby and think if he could just transfer that form to the international game he'd be world class. Yet he seldom did it.
Keith Robinson was not as athletic or as talented as Jack, but he could shift bodies and did the dirty work needed at test level.
I'm sure there are Cantabrians frothing at the mouth about these sacrilegious words about one of their own
Just an opinion.@stodders It is a bad opinion. Confrontational lock who never took a step back.
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@stodders It is a bad opinion. Confrontational lock who never took a step back.
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@stodders It is a bad opinion. Confrontational lock who never took a step back.
In fairness, I didn't say it was a good one
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@MN5 said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
I don’t think this era can be topped.
Oh yes it can....
1970-71 - Three Test losses on the trot
1971 - First series loss to the Lions
1972 - First loss to an England club side (twice)
1972 - First draw with an Irish club side
1973 - First time we didn't win against Ireland (10-10 draw)
1973 - Lost to France for the first time in 20 years
1973 - Lost to the NZ Juniors
1973 - Lost to a NZ Invitation Side
1973 - First loss to England at home (Eden Park)Still, on the bright side, things did pick up after about 5 years and 3-4 new coaches
@Victor-Meldrew said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@MN5 said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
I don’t think this era can be topped.
Oh yes it can....
1970-71 - Three Test losses on the trot
1971 - First series loss to the Lions
1972 - First loss to an England club side (twice)
1972 - First draw with an Irish club side
1973 - First time we didn't win against Ireland (10-10 draw)
1973 - Lost to France for the first time in 20 years
1973 - Lost to the NZ Juniors
1973 - Lost to a NZ Invitation Side
1973 - First loss to England at home (Eden Park)Still, on the bright side, things did pick up after about 5 years and 3-4 new coaches
Hmmmmm I’m not convinced.
I think the consecutive Irish losses seals the deal for me personally.
Them winning ONE test in NZ is a hell of an effort when you consider their overall history. To do manage two is pretty damning.
The EOYT has disaster written all over it too.
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@MN5 said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Nepia said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@MN5 said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Nepia said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@MN5 said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Nepia said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@mikedogz said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
Laurie Mains era except for World Cup. 1998, Early 2000's.
I don't think the Mains era was that bad, but it was all over the show. Series win over a strong Lions team, series win over a strong-ish Boks team, a very close series loss to an awesome Oz team, a series loss to the try from the end of the world. In most of those matched good rugby was played by both sides.
@MajorRage said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
Worst one-off is quarter final RWC 2007. Easily. That was a killer.
03 semi is worst for me.
@booboo said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
Was it 1973 when we lost to ourselves, NZ Universities and England ... ?
Yeah I think so, thank god I wasn't around for the early 70s.
Plus he gave debuts to Jonah, Goldie, Osbourne, Merhts, Kronfeld and others I may have missed.
He also almost won the WC and the team was the most exciting one on display by far.
Off topic slightly but not sure I’d call the Lions team too strong, the midweek team were a bunch of disorganised pass heads apparently.
I thought their top team was decent but due to them being locked in the midweek team decided to go on holiday.
Bit of a mixture from memory. Hastings, Evans, Gibbs, Guscott, Underwood, Andrew etc were all greats but some of the Scottish tight forwards who somehow got test caps were very journeymanish
Damn, now I'm going to have to look it up - I thought it was mostly English forwards like Bayfield, Clarke, Leonard, Winterbottom and the young fulla Johnson etc.
Edit: Looks like the coach was drunk or there were injuries for the first test when the three Scots got a start. It was the Englishmen and Popplewell for the rest of the tests.
Yeah I couldn’t find it online at first but three Scots in the tight five was beyond ridiculous. Plodders the lot of them.
By international standards or those exemplary Scottish standards?
@nostrildamus said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@MN5 said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Nepia said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@MN5 said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Nepia said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@MN5 said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Nepia said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@mikedogz said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
Laurie Mains era except for World Cup. 1998, Early 2000's.
I don't think the Mains era was that bad, but it was all over the show. Series win over a strong Lions team, series win over a strong-ish Boks team, a very close series loss to an awesome Oz team, a series loss to the try from the end of the world. In most of those matched good rugby was played by both sides.
@MajorRage said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
Worst one-off is quarter final RWC 2007. Easily. That was a killer.
03 semi is worst for me.
@booboo said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
Was it 1973 when we lost to ourselves, NZ Universities and England ... ?
Yeah I think so, thank god I wasn't around for the early 70s.
Plus he gave debuts to Jonah, Goldie, Osbourne, Merhts, Kronfeld and others I may have missed.
He also almost won the WC and the team was the most exciting one on display by far.
Off topic slightly but not sure I’d call the Lions team too strong, the midweek team were a bunch of disorganised pass heads apparently.
I thought their top team was decent but due to them being locked in the midweek team decided to go on holiday.
Bit of a mixture from memory. Hastings, Evans, Gibbs, Guscott, Underwood, Andrew etc were all greats but some of the Scottish tight forwards who somehow got test caps were very journeymanish
Damn, now I'm going to have to look it up - I thought it was mostly English forwards like Bayfield, Clarke, Leonard, Winterbottom and the young fulla Johnson etc.
Edit: Looks like the coach was drunk or there were injuries for the first test when the three Scots got a start. It was the Englishmen and Popplewell for the rest of the tests.
Yeah I couldn’t find it online at first but three Scots in the tight five was beyond ridiculous. Plodders the lot of them.
By international standards or those exemplary Scottish standards?
All of the above
