The Worst All Blacks results ...
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@MN5 said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
I don’t think this era can be topped.
Oh yes it can....
1970-71 - Three Test losses on the trot
1971 - First series loss to the Lions
1972 - First loss to an England club side (twice)
1972 - First draw with an Irish club side
1973 - First time we didn't win against Ireland (10-10 draw)
1973 - Lost to France for the first time in 20 years
1973 - Lost to the NZ Juniors
1973 - Lost to a NZ Invitation Side
1973 - First loss to England at home (Eden Park)Still, on the bright side, things did pick up after about 5 years and 3-4 new coaches
@Victor-Meldrew Damn you for reminding me - not that I don't think of it way too often. Add getting smashed by Oz at Eden Park, 4 tries to Cornelsen a #8 FFS and another to their blindside another record loss in the Bastille Day test against France. Plus having a pack that was so shite against the Lions that we were reduced to packing down three man scrums.
No wonder I was so traumatised I had to fuck off to Europe for the next 13 years
For me our worst RWC defeat was the 99 capitulation. All losses hurt and there are arguments that we didn't deserve to in 95 and 07 but 99 we were too nervous to front the frogs
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@Victor-Meldrew Damn you for reminding me - not that I don't think of it way too often. Add getting smashed by Oz at Eden Park, 4 tries to Cornelsen a #8 FFS and another to their blindside another record loss in the Bastille Day test against France. Plus having a pack that was so shite against the Lions that we were reduced to packing down three man scrums.
No wonder I was so traumatised I had to fuck off to Europe for the next 13 years
For me our worst RWC defeat was the 99 capitulation. All losses hurt and there are arguments that we didn't deserve to in 95 and 07 but 99 we were too nervous to front the frogs
@dogmeat said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
99 we were too nervous to front the frogs
I'd argue cocky, only Jonah looked like he was focused and up for that match, pretty much all the rest of the team from the bus to warming up, all looked far too jovial.
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@dogmeat said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
99 we were too nervous to front the frogs
I'd argue cocky, only Jonah looked like he was focused and up for that match, pretty much all the rest of the team from the bus to warming up, all looked far too jovial.
@taniwharugby I'm thinking of the comments about the second half and those nasty horrible Frenchmen doing all those horrid underhand things and we were too timid to respond.
Although I do agree with your point - we clearly believed that having put 50 points on them 5 months earlier we just needed to front up. Problem was - we didn't.
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@mariner4life said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@nostrildamus said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@MN5 said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Catogrande said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
S’funny. At the time I saw him as your pre-eminent lock. Athletic, good line out forward, ok in the maul and as a carrier. Maybe a bit of a ruck inspector. Not sure who you’d have had above him at the time?
Yeah Jack was good. Him and Williams did a great job although Whitelock and Retallick were a level above.
I don't know, they had some fine games together.
the quintessential NZ locking combination. Perfectly fine fit athletic footballers, both pretty good in the air.
Completely lacking in mongrel, edge, and power.
Williams had plenty of mongrel. Oh, you mean on the field? Carry on.
@nostrildamus said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@mariner4life said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@nostrildamus said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@MN5 said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Catogrande said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
S’funny. At the time I saw him as your pre-eminent lock. Athletic, good line out forward, ok in the maul and as a carrier. Maybe a bit of a ruck inspector. Not sure who you’d have had above him at the time?
Yeah Jack was good. Him and Williams did a great job although Whitelock and Retallick were a level above.
I don't know, they had some fine games together.
the quintessential NZ locking combination. Perfectly fine fit athletic footballers, both pretty good in the air.
Completely lacking in mongrel, edge, and power.
Williams had plenty of mongrel. Oh, you mean on the field? Carry on.
So did Jack. Fantastic jab.
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@nostrildamus said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@mariner4life said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@nostrildamus said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@MN5 said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Catogrande said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
S’funny. At the time I saw him as your pre-eminent lock. Athletic, good line out forward, ok in the maul and as a carrier. Maybe a bit of a ruck inspector. Not sure who you’d have had above him at the time?
Yeah Jack was good. Him and Williams did a great job although Whitelock and Retallick were a level above.
I don't know, they had some fine games together.
the quintessential NZ locking combination. Perfectly fine fit athletic footballers, both pretty good in the air.
Completely lacking in mongrel, edge, and power.
Williams had plenty of mongrel. Oh, you mean on the field? Carry on.
So did Jack. Fantastic jab.
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@MN5 rugby just looked better back then. Whoever is responsible for removing rucking has a lot to answer for.
@antipodean said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@MN5 rugby just looked better back then. Whoever is responsible for removing rucking has a lot to answer for.
fuck yes it was, because it's a brutal sport that was allowed to be brutal. Nothing wrong with any of that at all. Can you imagine the 5 minute TMO review and the number of cards now? No one will convince me it's a better product
Also, who is the massive cat in Black 6 who backs right off when Andrews turns on him, but rushes in to stomp the fuck out of the tackler?
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@antipodean said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@MN5 rugby just looked better back then. Whoever is responsible for removing rucking has a lot to answer for.
fuck yes it was, because it's a brutal sport that was allowed to be brutal. Nothing wrong with any of that at all. Can you imagine the 5 minute TMO review and the number of cards now? No one will convince me it's a better product
Also, who is the massive cat in Black 6 who backs right off when Andrews turns on him, but rushes in to stomp the fuck out of the tackler?
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@antipodean said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@MN5 rugby just looked better back then. Whoever is responsible for removing rucking has a lot to answer for.
fuck yes it was, because it's a brutal sport that was allowed to be brutal. Nothing wrong with any of that at all. Can you imagine the 5 minute TMO review and the number of cards now? No one will convince me it's a better product
Also, who is the massive cat in Black 6 who backs right off when Andrews turns on him, but rushes in to stomp the fuck out of the tackler?
@mariner4life that'd be a red card and about 12 weeks nowadays
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@mariner4life Flavell?
@Tim said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@mariner4life Flavell?
Just picking his moments for filth. Signs of a class ( dirty ) player
Imagining Flavell trying to stay on the field for the full 80 in todays game is too hilarious for words.
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@mariner4life Flavell?
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@antipodean said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@MN5 rugby just looked better back then. Whoever is responsible for removing rucking has a lot to answer for.
fuck yes it was, because it's a brutal sport that was allowed to be brutal. Nothing wrong with any of that at all. Can you imagine the 5 minute TMO review and the number of cards now? No one will convince me it's a better product
Also, who is the massive cat in Black 6 who backs right off when Andrews turns on him, but rushes in to stomp the fuck out of the tackler?
@mariner4life said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@antipodean said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@MN5 rugby just looked better back then. Whoever is responsible for removing rucking has a lot to answer for.
fuck yes it was, because it's a brutal sport that was allowed to be brutal. Nothing wrong with any of that at all. Can you imagine the 5 minute TMO review and the number of cards now? No one will convince me it's a better product
Also, who is the massive cat in Black 6 who backs right off when Andrews turns on him, but rushes in to stomp the fuck out of the tackler?
Even more stupid is that the saffa that gets rucked would probably earn a penalty for a turnover attempt yet back then he was rightly deemed 'killing the ball'
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@Victor-Meldrew Damn you for reminding me - not that I don't think of it way too often. Add getting smashed by Oz at Eden Park, 4 tries to Cornelsen a #8 FFS and another to their blindside another record loss in the Bastille Day test against France. Plus having a pack that was so shite against the Lions that we were reduced to packing down three man scrums.
No wonder I was so traumatised I had to fuck off to Europe for the next 13 years
For me our worst RWC defeat was the 99 capitulation. All losses hurt and there are arguments that we didn't deserve to in 95 and 07 but 99 we were too nervous to front the frogs
@dogmeat said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
Plus having a pack that was so shite against the Lions that we were reduced to packing down three man scrums.
Ironically, the '77 AB's turned things around with stuff like that and all sorts of weird lineout variations. It was really intelligent play which threw the Lions completely off balance. Great AB backline though - one of the best ever.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@MN5 said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
I don’t think this era can be topped.
Oh yes it can....
1970-71 - Three Test losses on the trot
1971 - First series loss to the Lions
1972 - First loss to an England club side (twice)
1972 - First draw with an Irish club side
1973 - First time we didn't win against Ireland (10-10 draw)
1973 - Lost to France for the first time in 20 years
1973 - Lost to the NZ Juniors
1973 - Lost to a NZ Invitation Side
1973 - First loss to England at home (Eden Park)Still, on the bright side, things did pick up after about 5 years and 3-4 new coaches
Hmmmmm I’m not convinced.
I think the consecutive Irish losses seals the deal for me personally.
Them winning ONE test in NZ is a hell of an effort when you consider their overall history. To do manage two is pretty damning.
The EOYT has disaster written all over it too.
@MN5 said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Victor-Meldrew said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@MN5 said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
I don’t think this era can be topped.
Oh yes it can....
1970-71 - Three Test losses on the trot
1971 - First series loss to the Lions
1972 - First loss to an England club side (twice)
1972 - First draw with an Irish club side
1973 - First time we didn't win against Ireland (10-10 draw)
1973 - Lost to France for the first time in 20 years
1973 - Lost to the NZ Juniors
1973 - Lost to a NZ Invitation Side
1973 - First loss to England at home (Eden Park)Still, on the bright side, things did pick up after about 5 years and 3-4 new coaches
Hmmmmm I’m not convinced.
I think the consecutive Irish losses seals the deal for me personally.
Them winning ONE test in NZ is a hell of an effort when you consider their overall history. To do manage two is pretty damning.
The EOYT has disaster written all over it too.
You'd have to go an awful long way to be worse than the '70's ABs with their record. Current crop still have a few years to do that though, I guess
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@nostrildamus said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
2007: against France in a RWC. That is all I need to write
a team we have a 7-2 record against in World Cups? You need to write a bit more.
We play France a lot in that tournament by the way.
@mariner4life said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@nostrildamus said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
2007: against France in a RWC. That is all I need to write
a team we have a 7-2 record against in World Cups? You need to write a bit more.
We play France a lot in that tournament by the way.
Only lost to them twice
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i expect to beat France every time we play them. And in the professional era i have been right 24 times
and wrong only 5.
holy shit look at that wiki page. They beat us in the first test in 2009, and then not again until last year, while we racked up 14 in a row. Some of them absolute beltings.
@mariner4life said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
i expect to beat anybody every time we play them.
FIFY
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for me, the 1st half of the 3rd Irish test this year was the worst I have ever seen the ABs play, it was just awful, even worse than the 2nd half of the 1999 semi v France.
@taniwharugby said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
for me, the 1st half of the 3rd Irish test this year was the worst I have ever seen the ABs play, it was just awful, even worse than the 2nd half of the 1999 semi v France.
This.
Confirmed me into the 'Foster must go' mob.
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@dogmeat said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
Plus having a pack that was so shite against the Lions that we were reduced to packing down three man scrums.
Ironically, the '77 AB's turned things around with stuff like that and all sorts of weird lineout variations. It was really intelligent play which threw the Lions completely off balance. Great AB backline though - one of the best ever.
@Victor-Meldrew I agree it was clever tactics but it did highlight our weaknesses in the tight 5.
I think your memory is playing tricks with you re the backline.
First couple of tests we had Batty play with his crocked knee in the first and then forced to retire (his intercept a major contribution to us winning the series). We had the Colin Farrell debacle and Going finally dropped
This is the backline for the last two tests
L. J. Davis
O. D. Bruce
B. R. Ford
W. M. Osborne
B. J. Robertson
B. G. Williams
B. W. WilsonPredominantly journeymen. I reckon most Ferners woudn't know much about many of them.
Ironically despite being bullied in the set piece the forwards weren't so shabby
The back three in particular could thrive in the modern game
J. T. McEldowney
R. W. Norton (C)
W. K. Te P. Bush
A. M. Haden
F. J. Oliver
G. N. K. Mourie
I. A. Kirkpatrick
L. G. Knight -
@Victor-Meldrew I agree it was clever tactics but it did highlight our weaknesses in the tight 5.
I think your memory is playing tricks with you re the backline.
First couple of tests we had Batty play with his crocked knee in the first and then forced to retire (his intercept a major contribution to us winning the series). We had the Colin Farrell debacle and Going finally dropped
This is the backline for the last two tests
L. J. Davis
O. D. Bruce
B. R. Ford
W. M. Osborne
B. J. Robertson
B. G. Williams
B. W. WilsonPredominantly journeymen. I reckon most Ferners woudn't know much about many of them.
Ironically despite being bullied in the set piece the forwards weren't so shabby
The back three in particular could thrive in the modern game
J. T. McEldowney
R. W. Norton (C)
W. K. Te P. Bush
A. M. Haden
F. J. Oliver
G. N. K. Mourie
I. A. Kirkpatrick
L. G. Knight@dogmeat said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Victor-Meldrew I agree it was clever tactics but it did highlight our weaknesses in the tight 5.
I think your memory is playing tricks with you re the backline.
First couple of tests we had Batty play with his crocked knee in the first and then forced to retire (his intercept a major contribution to us winning the series). We had the Colin Farrell debacle and Going finally dropped
This is the backline for the last two tests
L. J. Davis
O. D. Bruce
B. R. Ford
W. M. Osborne
B. J. Robertson
B. G. Williams
B. W. WilsonPredominantly journeymen. I reckon most Ferners woudn't know much about many of them.
Ironically despite being bullied in the set piece the forwards weren't so shabby
The back three in particular could thrive in the modern game
J. T. McEldowney
R. W. Norton (C)
W. K. Te P. Bush
A. M. Haden
F. J. Oliver
G. N. K. Mourie
I. A. Kirkpatrick
L. G. KnightAny backline with Robertson and William's is not shabby. Bruce and Osborne more than handy.
Wilson filled his role nicely and gave us goal kicker.
That leaves Ford whose name I recall (Marlborough?) But not much else. Cant say Davis stays in my memory..
And you're right, that forward pack seems ok.
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@nostrildamus said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@mariner4life said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@nostrildamus said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@MN5 said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Catogrande said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
S’funny. At the time I saw him as your pre-eminent lock. Athletic, good line out forward, ok in the maul and as a carrier. Maybe a bit of a ruck inspector. Not sure who you’d have had above him at the time?
Yeah Jack was good. Him and Williams did a great job although Whitelock and Retallick were a level above.
I don't know, they had some fine games together.
the quintessential NZ locking combination. Perfectly fine fit athletic footballers, both pretty good in the air.
Completely lacking in mongrel, edge, and power.
Williams had plenty of mongrel. Oh, you mean on the field? Carry on.
So did Jack. Fantastic jab.
@MN5 said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@nostrildamus said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@mariner4life said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@nostrildamus said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@MN5 said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Catogrande said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
S’funny. At the time I saw him as your pre-eminent lock. Athletic, good line out forward, ok in the maul and as a carrier. Maybe a bit of a ruck inspector. Not sure who you’d have had above him at the time?
Yeah Jack was good. Him and Williams did a great job although Whitelock and Retallick were a level above.
I don't know, they had some fine games together.
the quintessential NZ locking combination. Perfectly fine fit athletic footballers, both pretty good in the air.
Completely lacking in mongrel, edge, and power.
Williams had plenty of mongrel. Oh, you mean on the field? Carry on.
So did Jack. Fantastic jab.
My memory tells me Jack thumped one of the Bok locks (Andrews?) in his debut too. Eden Park?
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@dogmeat said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Victor-Meldrew I agree it was clever tactics but it did highlight our weaknesses in the tight 5.
I think your memory is playing tricks with you re the backline.
First couple of tests we had Batty play with his crocked knee in the first and then forced to retire (his intercept a major contribution to us winning the series). We had the Colin Farrell debacle and Going finally dropped
This is the backline for the last two tests
L. J. Davis
O. D. Bruce
B. R. Ford
W. M. Osborne
B. J. Robertson
B. G. Williams
B. W. WilsonPredominantly journeymen. I reckon most Ferners woudn't know much about many of them.
Ironically despite being bullied in the set piece the forwards weren't so shabby
The back three in particular could thrive in the modern game
J. T. McEldowney
R. W. Norton (C)
W. K. Te P. Bush
A. M. Haden
F. J. Oliver
G. N. K. Mourie
I. A. Kirkpatrick
L. G. KnightAny backline with Robertson and William's is not shabby. Bruce and Osborne more than handy.
Wilson filled his role nicely and gave us goal kicker.
That leaves Ford whose name I recall (Marlborough?) But not much else. Cant say Davis stays in my memory..
And you're right, that forward pack seems ok.
@booboo Brain Ford was NZ sprint champion IIRC although may be confusing him with A N Other (Terry Mitchell?)
Lyn Davis was the long serving (since early 60's) half back who had the misfortune to be playing in the same era as Laidlaw and Going. He was past his best but was finally deemed better than Going (who had been in decline for a long time and had been a handicap to the backline) He played a couple of tests and retired at the end of the year.
Those two Bruce and Wilson were journeymen. Osborne and BeeGee* were very good AB's and Robertson has to be mentioned in any discussion of the greatest AB centre. I just don't think that makes it as @Victor-Meldrew said one od the greatest AB backlines of all time
- In a poll that year of every first class player in NZ BeeGee was rated the most over-rated player in the country
