The Worst All Blacks results ...
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@Victor-Meldrew I agree it was clever tactics but it did highlight our weaknesses in the tight 5.
I think your memory is playing tricks with you re the backline.
First couple of tests we had Batty play with his crocked knee in the first and then forced to retire (his intercept a major contribution to us winning the series). We had the Colin Farrell debacle and Going finally dropped
This is the backline for the last two tests
L. J. Davis
O. D. Bruce
B. R. Ford
W. M. Osborne
B. J. Robertson
B. G. Williams
B. W. WilsonPredominantly journeymen. I reckon most Ferners woudn't know much about many of them.
Ironically despite being bullied in the set piece the forwards weren't so shabby
The back three in particular could thrive in the modern game
J. T. McEldowney
R. W. Norton (C)
W. K. Te P. Bush
A. M. Haden
F. J. Oliver
G. N. K. Mourie
I. A. Kirkpatrick
L. G. Knight@dogmeat said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Victor-Meldrew I agree it was clever tactics but it did highlight our weaknesses in the tight 5.
I think your memory is playing tricks with you re the backline.
First couple of tests we had Batty play with his crocked knee in the first and then forced to retire (his intercept a major contribution to us winning the series). We had the Colin Farrell debacle and Going finally dropped
This is the backline for the last two tests
L. J. Davis
O. D. Bruce
B. R. Ford
W. M. Osborne
B. J. Robertson
B. G. Williams
B. W. WilsonPredominantly journeymen. I reckon most Ferners woudn't know much about many of them.
Ironically despite being bullied in the set piece the forwards weren't so shabby
The back three in particular could thrive in the modern game
J. T. McEldowney
R. W. Norton (C)
W. K. Te P. Bush
A. M. Haden
F. J. Oliver
G. N. K. Mourie
I. A. Kirkpatrick
L. G. KnightAny backline with Robertson and William's is not shabby. Bruce and Osborne more than handy.
Wilson filled his role nicely and gave us goal kicker.
That leaves Ford whose name I recall (Marlborough?) But not much else. Cant say Davis stays in my memory..
And you're right, that forward pack seems ok.
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@nostrildamus said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@mariner4life said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@nostrildamus said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@MN5 said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Catogrande said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
S’funny. At the time I saw him as your pre-eminent lock. Athletic, good line out forward, ok in the maul and as a carrier. Maybe a bit of a ruck inspector. Not sure who you’d have had above him at the time?
Yeah Jack was good. Him and Williams did a great job although Whitelock and Retallick were a level above.
I don't know, they had some fine games together.
the quintessential NZ locking combination. Perfectly fine fit athletic footballers, both pretty good in the air.
Completely lacking in mongrel, edge, and power.
Williams had plenty of mongrel. Oh, you mean on the field? Carry on.
So did Jack. Fantastic jab.
@MN5 said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@nostrildamus said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@mariner4life said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@nostrildamus said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@MN5 said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Catogrande said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
S’funny. At the time I saw him as your pre-eminent lock. Athletic, good line out forward, ok in the maul and as a carrier. Maybe a bit of a ruck inspector. Not sure who you’d have had above him at the time?
Yeah Jack was good. Him and Williams did a great job although Whitelock and Retallick were a level above.
I don't know, they had some fine games together.
the quintessential NZ locking combination. Perfectly fine fit athletic footballers, both pretty good in the air.
Completely lacking in mongrel, edge, and power.
Williams had plenty of mongrel. Oh, you mean on the field? Carry on.
So did Jack. Fantastic jab.
My memory tells me Jack thumped one of the Bok locks (Andrews?) in his debut too. Eden Park?
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@dogmeat said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Victor-Meldrew I agree it was clever tactics but it did highlight our weaknesses in the tight 5.
I think your memory is playing tricks with you re the backline.
First couple of tests we had Batty play with his crocked knee in the first and then forced to retire (his intercept a major contribution to us winning the series). We had the Colin Farrell debacle and Going finally dropped
This is the backline for the last two tests
L. J. Davis
O. D. Bruce
B. R. Ford
W. M. Osborne
B. J. Robertson
B. G. Williams
B. W. WilsonPredominantly journeymen. I reckon most Ferners woudn't know much about many of them.
Ironically despite being bullied in the set piece the forwards weren't so shabby
The back three in particular could thrive in the modern game
J. T. McEldowney
R. W. Norton (C)
W. K. Te P. Bush
A. M. Haden
F. J. Oliver
G. N. K. Mourie
I. A. Kirkpatrick
L. G. KnightAny backline with Robertson and William's is not shabby. Bruce and Osborne more than handy.
Wilson filled his role nicely and gave us goal kicker.
That leaves Ford whose name I recall (Marlborough?) But not much else. Cant say Davis stays in my memory..
And you're right, that forward pack seems ok.
@booboo Brain Ford was NZ sprint champion IIRC although may be confusing him with A N Other (Terry Mitchell?)
Lyn Davis was the long serving (since early 60's) half back who had the misfortune to be playing in the same era as Laidlaw and Going. He was past his best but was finally deemed better than Going (who had been in decline for a long time and had been a handicap to the backline) He played a couple of tests and retired at the end of the year.
Those two Bruce and Wilson were journeymen. Osborne and BeeGee* were very good AB's and Robertson has to be mentioned in any discussion of the greatest AB centre. I just don't think that makes it as @Victor-Meldrew said one od the greatest AB backlines of all time
- In a poll that year of every first class player in NZ BeeGee was rated the most over-rated player in the country
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I think first test at Christchurch v France 1994 was the worst I have ever seen us play. In an individual game. That I remember.
We actually responded really well in the second test, but try from the end of the world and all that.
The Mains years were certainly interesting.
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I think first test at Christchurch v France 1994 was the worst I have ever seen us play. In an individual game. That I remember.
We actually responded really well in the second test, but try from the end of the world and all that.
The Mains years were certainly interesting.
@Rapido said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
I think first test at Christchurch v France 1994 was the worst I have ever seen us play. In an individual game. That I remember.
We actually responded really well in the second test, but try from the end of the world and all that.
The Mains years were certainly interesting.
AH I remember the thing knwn as the Blacklash…
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@Rapido said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
I think first test at Christchurch v France 1994 was the worst I have ever seen us play. In an individual game. That I remember.
We actually responded really well in the second test, but try from the end of the world and all that.
The Mains years were certainly interesting.
AH I remember the thing knwn as the Blacklash…
@Machpants said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Rapido said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
I think first test at Christchurch v France 1994 was the worst I have ever seen us play. In an individual game. That I remember.
We actually responded really well in the second test, but try from the end of the world and all that.
The Mains years were certainly interesting.
AH I remember the thing knwn as the Blacklash…
Ah, we still lost the blacklash match of 1994, as I alluded above, but it took a try from the end of the world.
On a serious note, I have real problems with the fetishing of the backlash. I'd rather we fetishised consistency.
Happily. Foster's current team is currently very consistent, and no backlashes in site. -
@Machpants said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Rapido said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
I think first test at Christchurch v France 1994 was the worst I have ever seen us play. In an individual game. That I remember.
We actually responded really well in the second test, but try from the end of the world and all that.
The Mains years were certainly interesting.
AH I remember the thing knwn as the Blacklash…
Ah, we still lost the blacklash match of 1994, as I alluded above, but it took a try from the end of the world.
On a serious note, I have real problems with the fetishing of the backlash. I'd rather we fetishised consistency.
Happily. Foster's current team is currently very consistent, and no backlashes in site.@Rapido said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Machpants said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Rapido said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
I think first test at Christchurch v France 1994 was the worst I have ever seen us play. In an individual game. That I remember.
We actually responded really well in the second test, but try from the end of the world and all that.
The Mains years were certainly interesting.
AH I remember the thing knwn as the Blacklash…
Ah, we still lost the blacklash match of 1994, as I alluded above, but it took a try from the end of the world.
On a serious note, I have real problems with the fetishing of the backlash. I'd rather we fetishised consistency.
Happily. Foster's current team is currently very consistent, and no backlashes in site.The whole team deserve 50 back lashes....
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@Victor-Meldrew I agree it was clever tactics but it did highlight our weaknesses in the tight 5.
I think your memory is playing tricks with you re the backline.
First couple of tests we had Batty play with his crocked knee in the first and then forced to retire (his intercept a major contribution to us winning the series). We had the Colin Farrell debacle and Going finally dropped
This is the backline for the last two tests
L. J. Davis
O. D. Bruce
B. R. Ford
W. M. Osborne
B. J. Robertson
B. G. Williams
B. W. WilsonPredominantly journeymen. I reckon most Ferners woudn't know much about many of them.
Ironically despite being bullied in the set piece the forwards weren't so shabby
The back three in particular could thrive in the modern game
J. T. McEldowney
R. W. Norton (C)
W. K. Te P. Bush
A. M. Haden
F. J. Oliver
G. N. K. Mourie
I. A. Kirkpatrick
L. G. Knight@dogmeat said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
I agree it was clever tactics but it did highlight our weaknesses in the tight 5.
A lot of people thought it shabby but we could do with some of that smart thinking today
I think your memory is playing tricks with you re the backline.
Probbly, but the Robertson/Osbourne combination was way up there and BG Williams would be near the top of an AB winger list. Once Sid Going was dropped, and Bruce got some quality passes the whole backline seemed to go up several notches. They were even better in the 4th Test.
6/7/8 were a great combination. Real kudos to Ian Kirkpatrick for being sacked as captain but giving 120% to the team and Mourie
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@dogmeat said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
I agree it was clever tactics but it did highlight our weaknesses in the tight 5.
A lot of people thought it shabby but we could do with some of that smart thinking today
I think your memory is playing tricks with you re the backline.
Probbly, but the Robertson/Osbourne combination was way up there and BG Williams would be near the top of an AB winger list. Once Sid Going was dropped, and Bruce got some quality passes the whole backline seemed to go up several notches. They were even better in the 4th Test.
6/7/8 were a great combination. Real kudos to Ian Kirkpatrick for being sacked as captain but giving 120% to the team and Mourie
@Victor-Meldrew said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
could do with some of that smart thinking today
Can't do 3 man scrums nowadays ...
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@dogmeat said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Victor-Meldrew I agree it was clever tactics but it did highlight our weaknesses in the tight 5.
I think your memory is playing tricks with you re the backline.
First couple of tests we had Batty play with his crocked knee in the first and then forced to retire (his intercept a major contribution to us winning the series). We had the Colin Farrell debacle and Going finally dropped
This is the backline for the last two tests
L. J. Davis
O. D. Bruce
B. R. Ford
W. M. Osborne
B. J. Robertson
B. G. Williams
B. W. WilsonPredominantly journeymen. I reckon most Ferners woudn't know much about many of them.
Ironically despite being bullied in the set piece the forwards weren't so shabby
The back three in particular could thrive in the modern game
J. T. McEldowney
R. W. Norton (C)
W. K. Te P. Bush
A. M. Haden
F. J. Oliver
G. N. K. Mourie
I. A. Kirkpatrick
L. G. KnightAny backline with Robertson and William's is not shabby. Bruce and Osborne more than handy.
Wilson filled his role nicely and gave us goal kicker.
That leaves Ford whose name I recall (Marlborough?) But not much else. Cant say Davis stays in my memory..
And you're right, that forward pack seems ok.
@booboo said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
Wilson filled his role nicely and gave us goal kicker.
And then seemed to vanish from the scene with injuries.
Cant say Davis stays in my memory..
Bit of a journeyman and in for Sid Going after the 2nd Test. The joke at the time was how would Doug Bruce would cope with good passes from the halfback
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@Victor-Meldrew said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
could do with some of that smart thinking today
Can't do 3 man scrums nowadays ...
@booboo said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Victor-Meldrew said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
could do with some of that smart thinking today
Can't do 3 man scrums nowadays ...
Team can't do much thinking today either, it seems..
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@Machpants said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
This Saturday
Came here to post the same thing. Two record losses in a row coming up.
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@Machpants said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
This Saturday
Came here to post the same thing. Two record losses in a row coming up.
@Kirwan said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Machpants said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
This Saturday
Came here to post the same thing. Two record losses in a row coming up.
Except one was a record win (at Ellis)
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@Kirwan said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Machpants said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
This Saturday
Came here to post the same thing. Two record losses in a row coming up.
Except one was a record win (at Ellis)
@Crucial said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Kirwan said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Machpants said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
This Saturday
Came here to post the same thing. Two record losses in a row coming up.
Except one was a record win (at Ellis)
OK, captain hindsight. I was hardly alone in predicting more losses after the past 12 months.
As great as that win was, there were still plenty of the same issues on display. This is not a team that can play three good games in a row to win a World Cup.
After the elation wore off, I couldn't help thing we won the battle and lost the war (assuming the board doesn't sack him suring the week).
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@Crucial said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Kirwan said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Machpants said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
This Saturday
Came here to post the same thing. Two record losses in a row coming up.
Except one was a record win (at Ellis)
OK, captain hindsight. I was hardly alone in predicting more losses after the past 12 months.
As great as that win was, there were still plenty of the same issues on display. This is not a team that can play three good games in a row to win a World Cup.
After the elation wore off, I couldn't help thing we won the battle and lost the war (assuming the board doesn't sack him suring the week).
@Kirwan Agree totally.
Rugby is a game of percentages and we were a few percentage points better on Saturday which resulted in a real lift, but it was still a game that we could have easily lost. We still gifted the Boks easy points through unforced errors, but we made fewer of them and so just managed to hang in there.
It was a great game, (although not great for my heart). Tense, non-stop and very confrontational, but it reminded me a lot of Ireland 1.
Unfortunately I think it was another outlier performance rather than the dawning of a new era. As such it should have no bearing on the coaching decision, but I am pretty sure it will have.
I actually have quite a bit of sympathy for Fozzie. i don't think he should have got the job, but given Covid, the fixtures he has had and the improvements in the sides around us he has probably done better than I would have anticipated.
Is that enough? On balance, I don't think so but the decision shouldn't rest on this one result. Even more than Fozzie I think there needs to be a clear out at NZR House.
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@Kirwan Agree totally.
Rugby is a game of percentages and we were a few percentage points better on Saturday which resulted in a real lift, but it was still a game that we could have easily lost. We still gifted the Boks easy points through unforced errors, but we made fewer of them and so just managed to hang in there.
It was a great game, (although not great for my heart). Tense, non-stop and very confrontational, but it reminded me a lot of Ireland 1.
Unfortunately I think it was another outlier performance rather than the dawning of a new era. As such it should have no bearing on the coaching decision, but I am pretty sure it will have.
I actually have quite a bit of sympathy for Fozzie. i don't think he should have got the job, but given Covid, the fixtures he has had and the improvements in the sides around us he has probably done better than I would have anticipated.
Is that enough? On balance, I don't think so but the decision shouldn't rest on this one result. Even more than Fozzie I think there needs to be a clear out at NZR House.
@dogmeat said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Kirwan Agree totally.
Rugby is a game of percentages and we were a few percentage points better on Saturday which resulted in a real lift, but it was still a game that we could have easily lost. We still gifted the Boks easy points through unforced errors, but we made fewer of them and so just managed to hang in there.
It was a great game, (although not great for my heart). Tense, non-stop and very confrontational, but it reminded me a lot of Ireland 1.
Unfortunately I think it was another outlier performance rather than the dawning of a new era. As such it should have no bearing on the coaching decision, but I am pretty sure it will have.
I actually have quite a bit of sympathy for Fozzie. i don't think he should have got the job, but given Covid, the fixtures he has had and the improvements in the sides around us he has probably done better than I would have anticipated.
Is that enough? On balance, I don't think so but the decision shouldn't rest on this one result. Even more than Fozzie I think there needs to be a clear out at NZR House.
Not really a valid excuse when it effects everyone.
It didn’t stop Argentina getting a historic first win vs the ABs.
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@dogmeat said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Kirwan Agree totally.
Rugby is a game of percentages and we were a few percentage points better on Saturday which resulted in a real lift, but it was still a game that we could have easily lost. We still gifted the Boks easy points through unforced errors, but we made fewer of them and so just managed to hang in there.
It was a great game, (although not great for my heart). Tense, non-stop and very confrontational, but it reminded me a lot of Ireland 1.
Unfortunately I think it was another outlier performance rather than the dawning of a new era. As such it should have no bearing on the coaching decision, but I am pretty sure it will have.
I actually have quite a bit of sympathy for Fozzie. i don't think he should have got the job, but given Covid, the fixtures he has had and the improvements in the sides around us he has probably done better than I would have anticipated.
Is that enough? On balance, I don't think so but the decision shouldn't rest on this one result. Even more than Fozzie I think there needs to be a clear out at NZR House.
Not really a valid excuse when it effects everyone.
It didn’t stop Argentina getting a historic first win vs the ABs.
@MN5 said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
Not really a valid excuse when it effects everyone.
It's oldies like me that are supposed to have short-term memory loss...
AB's didn't play a home test for 12 months lived in a bubble for months on end, only had 4 Tier 1 tests at home between RWC19 and July this year? Argentina has had it tougher but even south Africa hosted Georgia, Argentina x 2 and a Lions Tour last year - so a relatively normal season. Northern Hemisphere nations had a much more normal schedule.
