All Blacks v England
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks v England:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v England:
@Chris said in All Blacks v England:
We lost control of the game when the bench came on they were shit.
Saying we looked tired Fucking hell we had pretty much 8 fresh players on for the last 10.We need to look at different bench players to close out the games.
Havili and Frizzel are not the right players to have on the bench.
I'll gently suggest to just watch Frizell's 15 minutes at the end again.
You might not be as surprised when he gets picked next time.
I can tell you now that I absolutely will not be watching that last 15 minutes again
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v England:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v England:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v England:
@Chris said in All Blacks v England:
We lost control of the game when the bench came on they were shit.
Saying we looked tired Fucking hell we had pretty much 8 fresh players on for the last 10.We need to look at different bench players to close out the games.
Havili and Frizzel are not the right players to have on the bench.
I'll gently suggest to just watch Frizell's 15 minutes at the end again.
You might not be as surprised when he gets picked next time.
I can tell you now that I absolutely will not be watching that last 15 minutes again
G'wan Father. Have a cup of tea!
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks v England:
To give credit England played very well at the end
I agree. But the disappointing thing was our inability to kick deep into their territory and try to let our defence try to hem them in and force mistakes. Just a failure to control the match when we needed to
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Much like dumb players still prepared to walk the very thin line between dominant tackle and a card of either colour when will players realise that it’s better for the team and game management to ‘let’ the opposition score what is almost a certain try rather than trying to prevent it and getting carded?
With 10 mins to go, having a full complement on the pitch far outweighs 5 possibly 7 points
That’s coaching
And it’s bad, outdated coaching
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@canefan kicking deep seems to have gone out of favour
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks v England:
@canefan kicking deep seems to have gone out of favour
The Crusaders turned it into an art form. All those titles show it works. We were up against a team who are limited offensively and would struggle to travel the length of the field to score and preferred to take lower percentage options that gave the ball back in attacking positions
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Much like dumb players still prepared to walk the very thin line between dominant tackle and a card of either colour when will players realise that it’s better for the team and game management to ‘let’ the opposition score what is almost a certain try rather than trying to prevent it and getting carded?
With 10 mins to go, having a full complement on the pitch far outweighs 5 possibly 7 points
That’s coaching
And it’s bad, outdated coaching
@MiketheSnow It's an interesting point, Mike - but, I kind of wonder at what point the moneyball analysts agree with you.
The "most penalized" teams often seem to be among the most successful.
Giving up totally stupid cards seems counter-intuitive, but I wonder what proportion are actually given. Lots aren't when a team scores anyway.
No idea about the stats, but I wonder.
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Don't want to harp on but there must be some old Fox footage strangling the life out of the opposition with laser guided wipers to the corners
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Don't want to harp on but there must be some old Fox footage strangling the life out of the opposition with laser guided wipers to the corners
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks v England:
Don't want to harp on but there must be some old Fox footage strangling the life out of the opposition with laser guided wipers to the corners
Even Mehrts or DC knew the way
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Don't want to harp on but there must be some old Fox footage strangling the life out of the opposition with laser guided wipers to the corners
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks v England:
Don't want to harp on but there must be some old Fox footage strangling the life out of the opposition with laser guided wipers to the corners
And if they don't get it, a try is probably only 4 points anyway so who cares. Plus you can just ruck the opposition players on the ground and surely Brodie can jump higher than the England forwards in the lineout without lifting as that's illegal.
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@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
So it’s pretty much confirmed that we don’t have a ten in either BB or RM that can drive us around the park, and make 65mins of forward dominance pay.
Do we start looking at DMac and Perofeta from the bench as ten subs to see if they can do it?
We stick with RM at ten then we have very little chance at winning a World Cup. And as a bonus, be a team that lose from anywhere.
Yeah, Mo'unga has probably been the biggest disappointment, not because he's been absolutely dreadful, but because the cupboard is bare so we really needed him to step up, but he's just as flaky now as he was when he first came into the ABs. I think we should have a good look at DMac next year, he's really matured as a player and as all of the skills to do very well in the position.
It was criminal to give Perofeta so little gametime in black this year.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
So it’s pretty much confirmed that we don’t have a ten in either BB or RM that can drive us around the park, and make 65mins of forward dominance pay.
Do we start looking at DMac and Perofeta from the bench as ten subs to see if they can do it?
We stick with RM at ten then we have very little chance at winning a World Cup. And as a bonus, be a team that lose from anywhere.
Yeah, Mo'unga has probably been the biggest disappointment, not because he's been absolutely dreadful, but because the cupboard is bare so we really needed him to step up, but he's just as flaky now as he was when he first came into the ABs. I think we should have a good look at DMac next year, he's really matured as a player and as all of the skills to do very well in the position.
It was criminal to give Perofeta so little gametime in black this year.
Beauden is definitely not the answer at 10 either. (I notice you've given up flogging that horse)
Both have been given untold chances to improve their game management and both have failed in this aspect.Totally agree DMac should be seriously looked at.
It'll be harder for Perofeta because BB will probably play at 10 for the Blues next year. -
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
So it’s pretty much confirmed that we don’t have a ten in either BB or RM that can drive us around the park, and make 65mins of forward dominance pay.
Do we start looking at DMac and Perofeta from the bench as ten subs to see if they can do it?
We stick with RM at ten then we have very little chance at winning a World Cup. And as a bonus, be a team that lose from anywhere.
Yeah, Mo'unga has probably been the biggest disappointment, not because he's been absolutely dreadful, but because the cupboard is bare so we really needed him to step up, but he's just as flaky now as he was when he first came into the ABs. I think we should have a good look at DMac next year, he's really matured as a player and as all of the skills to do very well in the position.
It was criminal to give Perofeta so little gametime in black this year.
Beauden is definitely not the answer at 10 either. (I notice you've given up flogging that horse)
Both have been given untold chances to improve their game management and both have failed in this aspect.Totally agree DMac should be seriously looked at.
It'll be harder for Perofeta because BB will probably play at 10 for the Blues next year.@Frank said in All Blacks v England:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
So it’s pretty much confirmed that we don’t have a ten in either BB or RM that can drive us around the park, and make 65mins of forward dominance pay.
Do we start looking at DMac and Perofeta from the bench as ten subs to see if they can do it?
We stick with RM at ten then we have very little chance at winning a World Cup. And as a bonus, be a team that lose from anywhere.
Yeah, Mo'unga has probably been the biggest disappointment, not because he's been absolutely dreadful, but because the cupboard is bare so we really needed him to step up, but he's just as flaky now as he was when he first came into the ABs. I think we should have a good look at DMac next year, he's really matured as a player and as all of the skills to do very well in the position.
It was criminal to give Perofeta so little gametime in black this year.
Beauden is definitely not the answer at 10 either. (I notice you've given up flogging that horse)
Both have been given untold chances to improve their game management and both have failed in this aspect.Totally agree DMac should be seriously looked at.
It'll be harder for Perofeta because BB will probably play at 10 for the Blues next year.I think both could be OK but they seem totally incapable of toning down the low percentage nonsense at the worst possible times. Hate to compare, but Kwade actually became a decent test 10 when he stopped acting the fancy tool and focussed on his core tasks.
Obviously I've been a massive BB fanboi but you can't sugar-coat shjt anymore. Not sure wtf happened to him. Those effing kicks 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬. He's not a patch on what he was in 2016. I am deeply saddened by this. However, if he gets his shit together he should be 15 or at least the bench.
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@Frank said in All Blacks v England:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
So it’s pretty much confirmed that we don’t have a ten in either BB or RM that can drive us around the park, and make 65mins of forward dominance pay.
Do we start looking at DMac and Perofeta from the bench as ten subs to see if they can do it?
We stick with RM at ten then we have very little chance at winning a World Cup. And as a bonus, be a team that lose from anywhere.
Yeah, Mo'unga has probably been the biggest disappointment, not because he's been absolutely dreadful, but because the cupboard is bare so we really needed him to step up, but he's just as flaky now as he was when he first came into the ABs. I think we should have a good look at DMac next year, he's really matured as a player and as all of the skills to do very well in the position.
It was criminal to give Perofeta so little gametime in black this year.
Beauden is definitely not the answer at 10 either. (I notice you've given up flogging that horse)
Both have been given untold chances to improve their game management and both have failed in this aspect.Totally agree DMac should be seriously looked at.
It'll be harder for Perofeta because BB will probably play at 10 for the Blues next year.I think both could be OK but they seem totally incapable of toning down the low percentage nonsense at the worst possible times. Hate to compare, but Kwade actually became a decent test 10 when he stopped acting the fancy tool and focussed on his core tasks.
Obviously I've been a massive BB fanboi but you can't sugar-coat shjt anymore. Not sure wtf happened to him. Those effing kicks 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬. He's not a patch on what he was in 2016. I am deeply saddened by this. However, if he gets his shit together he should be 15 or at least the bench.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v England:
@Frank said in All Blacks v England:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
So it’s pretty much confirmed that we don’t have a ten in either BB or RM that can drive us around the park, and make 65mins of forward dominance pay.
Do we start looking at DMac and Perofeta from the bench as ten subs to see if they can do it?
We stick with RM at ten then we have very little chance at winning a World Cup. And as a bonus, be a team that lose from anywhere.
Yeah, Mo'unga has probably been the biggest disappointment, not because he's been absolutely dreadful, but because the cupboard is bare so we really needed him to step up, but he's just as flaky now as he was when he first came into the ABs. I think we should have a good look at DMac next year, he's really matured as a player and as all of the skills to do very well in the position.
It was criminal to give Perofeta so little gametime in black this year.
Beauden is definitely not the answer at 10 either. (I notice you've given up flogging that horse)
Both have been given untold chances to improve their game management and both have failed in this aspect.Totally agree DMac should be seriously looked at.
It'll be harder for Perofeta because BB will probably play at 10 for the Blues next year.I think both could be OK but they seem totally incapable of toning down the low percentage nonsense at the worst possible times. Hate to compare, but Kwade actually became a decent test 10 when he stopped acting the fancy tool and focussed on his core tasks.
Obviously I've been a massive BB fanboi but you can't sugar-coat shjt anymore. Not sure wtf happened to him. Those effing kicks 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬. He's not a patch on what he was in 2016. I am deeply saddened by this. However, if he gets his shit together he should be 15 or at least the bench.
How much of their play is them and how much is the pattern they are being asked to play? If its pattern that's on the coaches
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10 and 15 are usually the game changers. Currently it's Lomax and DeGroot :smiling_face_with_sunglasses:
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v England:
@Frank said in All Blacks v England:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
So it’s pretty much confirmed that we don’t have a ten in either BB or RM that can drive us around the park, and make 65mins of forward dominance pay.
Do we start looking at DMac and Perofeta from the bench as ten subs to see if they can do it?
We stick with RM at ten then we have very little chance at winning a World Cup. And as a bonus, be a team that lose from anywhere.
Yeah, Mo'unga has probably been the biggest disappointment, not because he's been absolutely dreadful, but because the cupboard is bare so we really needed him to step up, but he's just as flaky now as he was when he first came into the ABs. I think we should have a good look at DMac next year, he's really matured as a player and as all of the skills to do very well in the position.
It was criminal to give Perofeta so little gametime in black this year.
Beauden is definitely not the answer at 10 either. (I notice you've given up flogging that horse)
Both have been given untold chances to improve their game management and both have failed in this aspect.Totally agree DMac should be seriously looked at.
It'll be harder for Perofeta because BB will probably play at 10 for the Blues next year.I think both could be OK but they seem totally incapable of toning down the low percentage nonsense at the worst possible times. Hate to compare, but Kwade actually became a decent test 10 when he stopped acting the fancy tool and focussed on his core tasks.
Obviously I've been a massive BB fanboi but you can't sugar-coat shjt anymore. Not sure wtf happened to him. Those effing kicks 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬. He's not a patch on what he was in 2016. I am deeply saddened by this. However, if he gets his shit together he should be 15 or at least the bench.
How much of their play is them and how much is the pattern they are being asked to play? If its pattern that's on the coaches
@canefan said in All Blacks v England:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v England:
@Frank said in All Blacks v England:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
So it’s pretty much confirmed that we don’t have a ten in either BB or RM that can drive us around the park, and make 65mins of forward dominance pay.
Do we start looking at DMac and Perofeta from the bench as ten subs to see if they can do it?
We stick with RM at ten then we have very little chance at winning a World Cup. And as a bonus, be a team that lose from anywhere.
Yeah, Mo'unga has probably been the biggest disappointment, not because he's been absolutely dreadful, but because the cupboard is bare so we really needed him to step up, but he's just as flaky now as he was when he first came into the ABs. I think we should have a good look at DMac next year, he's really matured as a player and as all of the skills to do very well in the position.
It was criminal to give Perofeta so little gametime in black this year.
Beauden is definitely not the answer at 10 either. (I notice you've given up flogging that horse)
Both have been given untold chances to improve their game management and both have failed in this aspect.Totally agree DMac should be seriously looked at.
It'll be harder for Perofeta because BB will probably play at 10 for the Blues next year.I think both could be OK but they seem totally incapable of toning down the low percentage nonsense at the worst possible times. Hate to compare, but Kwade actually became a decent test 10 when he stopped acting the fancy tool and focussed on his core tasks.
Obviously I've been a massive BB fanboi but you can't sugar-coat shjt anymore. Not sure wtf happened to him. Those effing kicks 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬. He's not a patch on what he was in 2016. I am deeply saddened by this. However, if he gets his shit together he should be 15 or at least the bench.
How much of their play is them and how much is the pattern they are being asked to play? If its pattern that's on the coaches
Pattern and tactics are one thing but I'm pretty sure Foster isn't instructing them to play like headless chickens and to kick like shjt.
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Was hoping that Jordie hoisting huge long up and unders might be in our playbook with him at 12. But seems not. Clearly they have all trained on shallow cross kicks.
I wonder what training and plans there have been for longer kicks to pin the opposition back and pressure them. -
@canefan said in All Blacks v England:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v England:
@Frank said in All Blacks v England:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
So it’s pretty much confirmed that we don’t have a ten in either BB or RM that can drive us around the park, and make 65mins of forward dominance pay.
Do we start looking at DMac and Perofeta from the bench as ten subs to see if they can do it?
We stick with RM at ten then we have very little chance at winning a World Cup. And as a bonus, be a team that lose from anywhere.
Yeah, Mo'unga has probably been the biggest disappointment, not because he's been absolutely dreadful, but because the cupboard is bare so we really needed him to step up, but he's just as flaky now as he was when he first came into the ABs. I think we should have a good look at DMac next year, he's really matured as a player and as all of the skills to do very well in the position.
It was criminal to give Perofeta so little gametime in black this year.
Beauden is definitely not the answer at 10 either. (I notice you've given up flogging that horse)
Both have been given untold chances to improve their game management and both have failed in this aspect.Totally agree DMac should be seriously looked at.
It'll be harder for Perofeta because BB will probably play at 10 for the Blues next year.I think both could be OK but they seem totally incapable of toning down the low percentage nonsense at the worst possible times. Hate to compare, but Kwade actually became a decent test 10 when he stopped acting the fancy tool and focussed on his core tasks.
Obviously I've been a massive BB fanboi but you can't sugar-coat shjt anymore. Not sure wtf happened to him. Those effing kicks 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬. He's not a patch on what he was in 2016. I am deeply saddened by this. However, if he gets his shit together he should be 15 or at least the bench.
How much of their play is them and how much is the pattern they are being asked to play? If its pattern that's on the coaches
Pattern and tactics are one thing but I'm pretty sure Foster isn't instructing them to play like headless chickens and to kick like shjt.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v England:
@canefan said in All Blacks v England:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v England:
@Frank said in All Blacks v England:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
So it’s pretty much confirmed that we don’t have a ten in either BB or RM that can drive us around the park, and make 65mins of forward dominance pay.
Do we start looking at DMac and Perofeta from the bench as ten subs to see if they can do it?
We stick with RM at ten then we have very little chance at winning a World Cup. And as a bonus, be a team that lose from anywhere.
Yeah, Mo'unga has probably been the biggest disappointment, not because he's been absolutely dreadful, but because the cupboard is bare so we really needed him to step up, but he's just as flaky now as he was when he first came into the ABs. I think we should have a good look at DMac next year, he's really matured as a player and as all of the skills to do very well in the position.
It was criminal to give Perofeta so little gametime in black this year.
Beauden is definitely not the answer at 10 either. (I notice you've given up flogging that horse)
Both have been given untold chances to improve their game management and both have failed in this aspect.Totally agree DMac should be seriously looked at.
It'll be harder for Perofeta because BB will probably play at 10 for the Blues next year.I think both could be OK but they seem totally incapable of toning down the low percentage nonsense at the worst possible times. Hate to compare, but Kwade actually became a decent test 10 when he stopped acting the fancy tool and focussed on his core tasks.
Obviously I've been a massive BB fanboi but you can't sugar-coat shjt anymore. Not sure wtf happened to him. Those effing kicks 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬. He's not a patch on what he was in 2016. I am deeply saddened by this. However, if he gets his shit together he should be 15 or at least the bench.
How much of their play is them and how much is the pattern they are being asked to play? If its pattern that's on the coaches
Pattern and tactics are one thing but I'm pretty sure Foster isn't instructing them to play like headless chickens and to kick like shjt.
If not, why are we not seeing some improvement in their strategy and execution? It's not like they can't kick for distance, they just don't
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Was hoping that Jordie hoisting huge long up and unders might be in our playbook with him at 12. But seems not. Clearly they have all trained on shallow cross kicks.
I wonder what training and plans there have been for longer kicks to pin the opposition back and pressure them.@ARHS said in All Blacks v England:
Was hoping that Jordie hoisting huge long up and unders might be in our playbook with him at 12. But seems not. Clearly they have all trained on shallow cross kicks.
I wonder what training and plans there have been for longer kicks to pin the opposition back and pressure them.Powder my friend, powder.
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@sparky said in All Blacks v England:
@Bones Would we ever, ever celebrate a draw?
25-6 down with 10min to go? You might.
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@sparky said in All Blacks v England:
@Bones Would we ever, ever celebrate a draw?
25-6 down with 10min to go? You might.
@The-Irishman said in All Blacks v England:
@sparky said in All Blacks v England:
@Bones Would we ever, ever celebrate a draw?
25-6 down with 10min to go? You might.
I could absolutely celebrate a draw, if the final act was us tying the score.
I could absolutely not celebrate tying the scores in a 10 minute blitz, then being given possession to have a red-hot go at a win, and lying down like an absolute bitch.
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Was hoping that Jordie hoisting huge long up and unders might be in our playbook with him at 12. But seems not. Clearly they have all trained on shallow cross kicks.
I wonder what training and plans there have been for longer kicks to pin the opposition back and pressure them.@ARHS none they haven't read that chapter yet
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@canefan said in All Blacks v England:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v England:
@Frank said in All Blacks v England:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
So it’s pretty much confirmed that we don’t have a ten in either BB or RM that can drive us around the park, and make 65mins of forward dominance pay.
Do we start looking at DMac and Perofeta from the bench as ten subs to see if they can do it?
We stick with RM at ten then we have very little chance at winning a World Cup. And as a bonus, be a team that lose from anywhere.
Yeah, Mo'unga has probably been the biggest disappointment, not because he's been absolutely dreadful, but because the cupboard is bare so we really needed him to step up, but he's just as flaky now as he was when he first came into the ABs. I think we should have a good look at DMac next year, he's really matured as a player and as all of the skills to do very well in the position.
It was criminal to give Perofeta so little gametime in black this year.
Beauden is definitely not the answer at 10 either. (I notice you've given up flogging that horse)
Both have been given untold chances to improve their game management and both have failed in this aspect.Totally agree DMac should be seriously looked at.
It'll be harder for Perofeta because BB will probably play at 10 for the Blues next year.I think both could be OK but they seem totally incapable of toning down the low percentage nonsense at the worst possible times. Hate to compare, but Kwade actually became a decent test 10 when he stopped acting the fancy tool and focussed on his core tasks.
Obviously I've been a massive BB fanboi but you can't sugar-coat shjt anymore. Not sure wtf happened to him. Those effing kicks 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬. He's not a patch on what he was in 2016. I am deeply saddened by this. However, if he gets his shit together he should be 15 or at least the bench.
How much of their play is them and how much is the pattern they are being asked to play? If its pattern that's on the coaches
Pattern and tactics are one thing but I'm pretty sure Foster isn't instructing them to play like headless chickens and to kick like shjt.
