Black Caps v England

Donsteppa

@Chris said in Black Caps v England:

@nzzp said in Black Caps v England:

@Chris said in Black Caps v England:

I worry for NZ cricket going forward .

Yes. We won the WTC against the odds - but we are a long way from set up for long term success.

It seems the development pathways and high performance programs need a decent over haul.

they have for some time.

It's really patchy. Overall it doesn't feel very systematic to me, despite some of the facilities now appearing at the back of Bay Oval and Hagley Oval.

There are some good pockets and a few bright lights from the limited parts I get to see, but lots to work on - both mens and womens. Womens cricket in the Western Bay is all but non-existent if they get to the age of 18 and haven't already made the wider ND environment... which seems to show in both in the Brave and in the White Ferns this week...

Donsteppa

Wags 11 overs, 1-70, no maidens and five no balls. He hasn't quite been the We Loves Wags bowler that TSF remembers fondly for a year or two now... the joys of Father Time.

bayimports

@Donsteppa said in Black Caps v England:

Wags 11 overs, 1-70, no maidens and five no balls. He hasn't quite been the We Loves Wags bowler that TSF remembers fondly for a year or two now... the joys of Father Time.

to be fair he didn't get to bowl a lot in the last couple of years due to selections..but looking ordinary today

LABCAT

@Donsteppa said in Black Caps v England:

@Chris said in Black Caps v England:

@Donsteppa said in Black Caps v England:

@Chris said in Black Caps v England:

Just got home from morning coaching session
Catching up, A worry to see Scott Kuggeljin playing a test he is not up to test cricket,it would have been better to blood a youngster for the experience, probably would not lose a lot short term but gain long term.

It's a lose lose selection all round. Ordinarily the Outraged of Twitter are best ignored, but slightly conflicted feelings in this case, as they're being aggravated for a journeyman with no recent first class form to speak of. Maybe best to have gone with Duffy... or... arguably a bloke sitting 500m away watching via his WiFi.

I would have blooded a youngster.

Genuine question of - which one? I have no other names leaping to mind (maybe there should be). Doug Bracewell would have been ideal (gnashing of teeth from @MN5 aside )... others?

I would have picked:
https://www.espncricinfo.com/cricketers/zakary-foulkes-1202098

First class record doesn't look much yet but watching him play he looks like he has the skills to be the next Souther/Boult

mariner4life

must be hard to keep the over rate up when you spend your whole day picking the ball up from teh rope

how they fuck have they still got 41 overs to bowl?

Chris B.

@Donsteppa said in Black Caps v England:

Wags 11 overs, 1-70, no maidens and five no balls. He hasn't quite been the We Loves Wags bowler that TSF remembers fondly for a year or two now... the joys of Father Time.

Wags says, 16 overs 3-82, have some fucking patience!!!

nzzp

@Chris-B said in Black Caps v England:

Wags says, 16 overs 3-82, have some fucking patience!!!

4/82

Edit: have some patience?

LABCAT

So actually feels we are about even unless we have a bad evening tonight. Obviously England have guaranteed there will be a result as long as there is enough good weather.

mariner4life

lol i love this. Whack up 300+ and then declare with plenty of under-lights overs to bowl in.

Chris B.

@mariner4life said in Black Caps v England:

lol i love this. Whack up 300+ and then declare with plenty of under-lights overs to bowl in.

It's a bit like the olden days when people would declare on uncovered sticky wickets!

Well, we've done better with the ball than I expected - lets hope our stronger suit can pay dividends and keep them at bay under the lights.

LABCAT

Will be interesting to see how we approach batting, I'm guessing we'll be sticking to the 3 per over game plan.

Donsteppa

Bugger off with patience... I'm claiming credit for the collapse after scuttling to the ground for the evening session to sort them out

Crazy Horse

@LABCAT said in Black Caps v England:

@Donsteppa said in Black Caps v England:

@Chris said in Black Caps v England:

@Donsteppa said in Black Caps v England:

@Chris said in Black Caps v England:

Just got home from morning coaching session
Catching up, A worry to see Scott Kuggeljin playing a test he is not up to test cricket,it would have been better to blood a youngster for the experience, probably would not lose a lot short term but gain long term.

It's a lose lose selection all round. Ordinarily the Outraged of Twitter are best ignored, but slightly conflicted feelings in this case, as they're being aggravated for a journeyman with no recent first class form to speak of. Maybe best to have gone with Duffy... or... arguably a bloke sitting 500m away watching via his WiFi.

I would have blooded a youngster.

Genuine question of - which one? I have no other names leaping to mind (maybe there should be). Doug Bracewell would have been ideal (gnashing of teeth from @MN5 aside )... others?

I would have picked:
https://www.espncricinfo.com/cricketers/zakary-foulkes-1202098

First class record doesn't look much yet but watching him play he looks like he has the skills to be the next Souther/Boult

Too early for the kid. Looks like he has talent but also looks like he is still trying to find out who he is as a cricketer. Batsman who bowls, bowler who bats or genuine all-rounder?

LABCAT

@Crazy-Horse said in Black Caps v England:

@LABCAT said in Black Caps v England:

@Donsteppa said in Black Caps v England:

@Chris said in Black Caps v England:

@Donsteppa said in Black Caps v England:

@Chris said in Black Caps v England:

Just got home from morning coaching session
Catching up, A worry to see Scott Kuggeljin playing a test he is not up to test cricket,it would have been better to blood a youngster for the experience, probably would not lose a lot short term but gain long term.

It's a lose lose selection all round. Ordinarily the Outraged of Twitter are best ignored, but slightly conflicted feelings in this case, as they're being aggravated for a journeyman with no recent first class form to speak of. Maybe best to have gone with Duffy... or... arguably a bloke sitting 500m away watching via his WiFi.

I would have blooded a youngster.

Genuine question of - which one? I have no other names leaping to mind (maybe there should be). Doug Bracewell would have been ideal (gnashing of teeth from @MN5 aside )... others?

I would have picked:
https://www.espncricinfo.com/cricketers/zakary-foulkes-1202098

First class record doesn't look much yet but watching him play he looks like he has the skills to be the next Souther/Boult

Too early for the kid. Looks like he has talent but also looks like he is still trying to find out who he is as a cricketer. Batsman who bowls, bowler who bats or genuine all-rounder?

He's definitely a bowler who bats a bit, nothing else.

Was it too early for Southee, Boult, Vettori etc?

Crazy Horse

@LABCAT said in Black Caps v England:

@Crazy-Horse said in Black Caps v England:

@LABCAT said in Black Caps v England:

@Donsteppa said in Black Caps v England:

@Chris said in Black Caps v England:

@Donsteppa said in Black Caps v England:

@Chris said in Black Caps v England:

Just got home from morning coaching session
Catching up, A worry to see Scott Kuggeljin playing a test he is not up to test cricket,it would have been better to blood a youngster for the experience, probably would not lose a lot short term but gain long term.

It's a lose lose selection all round. Ordinarily the Outraged of Twitter are best ignored, but slightly conflicted feelings in this case, as they're being aggravated for a journeyman with no recent first class form to speak of. Maybe best to have gone with Duffy... or... arguably a bloke sitting 500m away watching via his WiFi.

I would have blooded a youngster.

Genuine question of - which one? I have no other names leaping to mind (maybe there should be). Doug Bracewell would have been ideal (gnashing of teeth from @MN5 aside )... others?

I would have picked:
https://www.espncricinfo.com/cricketers/zakary-foulkes-1202098

First class record doesn't look much yet but watching him play he looks like he has the skills to be the next Souther/Boult

Too early for the kid. Looks like he has talent but also looks like he is still trying to find out who he is as a cricketer. Batsman who bowls, bowler who bats or genuine all-rounder?

He's definitely a bowler who bats a bit, nothing else.

Was it too early for Southee, Boult, Vettori etc?

Genuine question because I don't know. Does Foulkes have any age grade pedigree? I ask because I seem to recall Southee and Boult spearheading an age grade NZ side to a handy world cup place.

The only thing I know about Foulkes is McMillan mentioning Foulkes was considered more of a batter and Canterbury were surprised by his success with the ball.

Edit @chris - wiki tells me Foulkes played in Qld during a T20 comp. Did you get to see him or hear about him?

LABCAT

@Crazy-Horse said in Black Caps v England:

@LABCAT said in Black Caps v England:

@Crazy-Horse said in Black Caps v England:

@LABCAT said in Black Caps v England:

@Donsteppa said in Black Caps v England:

@Chris said in Black Caps v England:

@Donsteppa said in Black Caps v England:

@Chris said in Black Caps v England:

Just got home from morning coaching session
Catching up, A worry to see Scott Kuggeljin playing a test he is not up to test cricket,it would have been better to blood a youngster for the experience, probably would not lose a lot short term but gain long term.

It's a lose lose selection all round. Ordinarily the Outraged of Twitter are best ignored, but slightly conflicted feelings in this case, as they're being aggravated for a journeyman with no recent first class form to speak of. Maybe best to have gone with Duffy... or... arguably a bloke sitting 500m away watching via his WiFi.

I would have blooded a youngster.

Genuine question of - which one? I have no other names leaping to mind (maybe there should be). Doug Bracewell would have been ideal (gnashing of teeth from @MN5 aside )... others?

I would have picked:
https://www.espncricinfo.com/cricketers/zakary-foulkes-1202098

First class record doesn't look much yet but watching him play he looks like he has the skills to be the next Souther/Boult

Too early for the kid. Looks like he has talent but also looks like he is still trying to find out who he is as a cricketer. Batsman who bowls, bowler who bats or genuine all-rounder?

He's definitely a bowler who bats a bit, nothing else.

Was it too early for Southee, Boult, Vettori etc?

Genuine question because I don't know. Does Foulkes have any age grade pedigree? I ask because I seem to recall Southee and Boult spearheading an age grade NZ side to a handy world cup place.

The only thing I know about Foulkes is McMillan mentioning Foulkes was considered more of a batter and Canterbury were surprised by his success with the ball.

Reading his Wikipedia doesn't look like much:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zak_Foulkes

I agree it could be a bit early to pick him at the moment, but we are now picking bowlers like Tickner and Kuggeleijn when when we are on other side of a cricketing peak.

It's time to start thinking about looking towards the future and picking younger players who may or may not have the potential to lead us to another peak, not 30 year old journeymen who belong in domestic cricket.

No Quarter

Not sure I really understand the logic of bowling first. Batting first means we either have a great day and bat through the day, or we fold but get to have a good crack at them under lights. It also means we don't have to chase in the 4th innings.

delicatessen

That dismissal is a great advert for Bazball. You're highly likely to get out early - why not get a few runs before doing so? If he'd faced 5 balls for 10 runs it'd've been a better result for us, and with the field set how it is that would seem a likely result from with an attacking mindset.

nzzp

@No-Quarter said in Black Caps v England:

Not sure I really understand the logic of bowling first. Batting first means we either have a great day and bat through the day, or we fold but get to have a good crack at them under lights. It also means we don't have to chase in the 4th innings.

the captain's a bowler? Rates the chance of rolling them cheaply?

Chris

@Crazy-Horse said in Black Caps v England:

@LABCAT said in Black Caps v England:

@Crazy-Horse said in Black Caps v England:

@LABCAT said in Black Caps v England:

@Donsteppa said in Black Caps v England:

@Chris said in Black Caps v England:

@Donsteppa said in Black Caps v England:

@Chris said in Black Caps v England:

Just got home from morning coaching session
Catching up, A worry to see Scott Kuggeljin playing a test he is not up to test cricket,it would have been better to blood a youngster for the experience, probably would not lose a lot short term but gain long term.

It's a lose lose selection all round. Ordinarily the Outraged of Twitter are best ignored, but slightly conflicted feelings in this case, as they're being aggravated for a journeyman with no recent first class form to speak of. Maybe best to have gone with Duffy... or... arguably a bloke sitting 500m away watching via his WiFi.

I would have blooded a youngster.

Genuine question of - which one? I have no other names leaping to mind (maybe there should be). Doug Bracewell would have been ideal (gnashing of teeth from @MN5 aside )... others?

I would have picked:
https://www.espncricinfo.com/cricketers/zakary-foulkes-1202098

First class record doesn't look much yet but watching him play he looks like he has the skills to be the next Souther/Boult

Too early for the kid. Looks like he has talent but also looks like he is still trying to find out who he is as a cricketer. Batsman who bowls, bowler who bats or genuine all-rounder?

He's definitely a bowler who bats a bit, nothing else.

Was it too early for Southee, Boult, Vettori etc?

Genuine question because I don't know. Does Foulkes have any age grade pedigree? I ask because I seem to recall Southee and Boult spearheading an age grade NZ side to a handy world cup place.

The only thing I know about Foulkes is McMillan mentioning Foulkes was considered more of a batter and Canterbury were surprised by his success with the ball.

Edit @chris - wiki tells me Foulkes played in Qld during a T20 comp. Did you get to see him or hear about him?

Yes I did mate he played in the KFC 20/20
At the start of the season I remember he took a 3/17 odd in one game and got pumped for 40 odd on the 2nd match I saw him play,
I think he made a 20 with the bat and a duck if my memory is correct.
Looked like he had some promise with the ball hard to judge his batting he was coming in in the middle order in 20/20s.
Definitely a prospect I reckon.
He did play in the comp when all the Aussie and Qld Bulls players were playing in that comp.
I took notice because he was a kiwi from Canterbury.

The Silver Fern

Black Caps v England