Super Rugby 2024
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The whole point is that if a draft model was used, Super teams wouldn't be developing the players... That is ultimately where the model comes unstuck. Other than American sports which draft out of the College system, the only other sport which uses a draft is cricket, but that is a very different model.
The cricket model wouldn't work, as a draft would have to take place prior to the NPC due to contract security, which would be a massive floor. The college system is also almost impossible, though it would be kind of cool if say Otago University played Auckland University etc.
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There's two arguments in favour of a draft
- The talent is unevenly spread
- Good players are not playing often enough
Now consider the population bases of the SR sides (numbers are from the NZR in 2019)
Region Population Blues 1.396m Chiefs 1.333m Hurricanes 1.019m Crusaders 0.797m Highlanders 0.337m The problem to me is an uneven spread of pro contracts. 20% of the pro contracts in Dunedin is crazy as is 40% of the pro contracts being in the South Island
That relies on a constant flow of players in one direction
To me the solution is more SR sides in other locations. That would solve the two original problems - uneven spread of talent & good players are not playing enough
It's better than forcing players away from their homes. There is an attrition rate when you do that and some players will opt for NRL in Sydney, Rugby in the south of France etc etc
Then perhaps it's appropriate for some of these SR sides to use the logos, uniforms of NPC sides..
9 or 10 teams would be ideal IMO. Same as the 1st division in the 90's
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There's two arguments in favour of a draft
- The talent is unevenly spread
- Good players are not playing often enough
Now consider the population bases of the SR sides (numbers are from the NZR in 2019)
Region Population Blues 1.396m Chiefs 1.333m Hurricanes 1.019m Crusaders 0.797m Highlanders 0.337m The problem to me is an uneven spread of pro contracts. 20% of the pro contracts in Dunedin is crazy as is 40% of the pro contracts being in the South Island
That relies on a constant flow of players in one direction
To me the solution is more SR sides in other locations. That would solve the two original problems - uneven spread of talent & good players are not playing enough
It's better than forcing players away from their homes. There is an attrition rate when you do that and some players will opt for NRL in Sydney, Rugby in the south of France etc etc
Then perhaps it's appropriate for some of these SR sides to use the logos, uniforms of NPC sides..
9 or 10 teams would be ideal IMO. Same as the 1st division in the 90's
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@Duluth If you add more New Zealand teams, then you'd need to extend the season and abolish the NPC... maybe instead have a national club cup competition like the FA Cup.
@friedrugby said in Super Rugby 2024:
you'd need to extend the season and abolish the NPC
Yes
Consider it a merger
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Clayton McMillan doesn't like it because any kid having the option to live and play code in Sydney or Hamilton is probably not gonna choose the Waikato.
hmmmm, Coogeee or Ham East? hmmmm, let me just weigh that up (packs bags)
@mariner4life Players go where they think they'll get the best opportunity to develop and succeed. Aussies from Qld and NSW have no problem heading to Canberra.
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@mariner4life Players go where they think they'll get the best opportunity to develop and succeed. Aussies from Qld and NSW have no problem heading to Canberra.
@Bovidae said in Super Rugby 2024:
@mariner4life Players go where they think they'll get the best opportunity to develop and succeed. Aussies from Qld and NSW have no problem heading to Canberra.
no shit?
I don't get the point
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@mariner4life Players go where they think they'll get the best opportunity to develop and succeed. Aussies from Qld and NSW have no problem heading to Canberra.
@Bovidae Players in NZ also don't hesitate to move franchises to get more playing opportunities. That's how the likes of Waisake Naholo and Fekitoa ended up at the Highlanders, Josh Ioane at the Chiefs, Kini Naholo at the Hurricanes, more players at the HIghlanders (Makalio, Hunt), to name a few.
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The whole point is that if a draft model was used, Super teams wouldn't be developing the players... That is ultimately where the model comes unstuck. Other than American sports which draft out of the College system, the only other sport which uses a draft is cricket, but that is a very different model.
The cricket model wouldn't work, as a draft would have to take place prior to the NPC due to contract security, which would be a massive floor. The college system is also almost impossible, though it would be kind of cool if say Otago University played Auckland University etc.
@friedrugby said in Super Rugby 2024:
Other than American sports which draft out of the College system, the only other sport which uses a draft is cricket, but that is a very different model.
AFL has a very successful draft out of teams development systems
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@Stargazer The NPC is fucked though, let's be fair. Most of the unions barely break even, and despite what a few diehard fans will say, no one watches it. More diehard Highlanders fans than Otago fans etc.
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@Stargazer The NPC is fucked though, let's be fair. Most of the unions barely break even, and despite what a few diehard fans will say, no one watches it. More diehard Highlanders fans than Otago fans etc.
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@Stargazer The NPC is fucked though, let's be fair. Most of the unions barely break even, and despite what a few diehard fans will say, no one watches it. More diehard Highlanders fans than Otago fans etc.
@friedrugby i wonder if otago and southland fans are more interested in revitalising the NPC because we've been through time where theyve actually "gone under" or had to be bailed out so know that just carrying on how we are isn't guaranteed
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@friedrugby i wonder if otago and southland fans are more interested in revitalising the NPC because we've been through time where theyve actually "gone under" or had to be bailed out so know that just carrying on how we are isn't guaranteed
@Kiwiwomble The problem with the NPC, is that it isn't attractive to the casual fan... realistically they made a mistake when they first professionalized rugby by going down the SR route. Would have been better to keep it with the three divisions, and chances are, the finances would naturally have sorted themselves out as the money grew.
There are now a generation of fans who grew up supporting the Highlanders, not Otago/Southland etc. Their heroes are Aaron Smith and Waisake Naholo, not Josh Renton and Michael Collins.
Revitalising the NPC by abolishing Super Rugby wouldn't work.
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@Stargazer Evidence of what? You aren't honestly going to try claim more people like the NPC than Super Rugby. Look at the crowd sizes. Even the unions which don't have Super teams get pretty piss poor crowds.
@friedrugby I think you are generalising too much and you can't prove it either. There are plenty of provinces with decent crowds, particularly the provinces not based in the SR main centres. And those that are based in SR main centres may just be playing in venues that are too big (and expensive) for NPC.
And no, I can't prove it, but am going by who I know and talk to (and that's quite a few), people in the provinces without a SR base are far more supportive of their NPC team than you think. And they'd hate to lose NPC, because that's where they see their team that really represents them with a majority of local players playing for the team. SR teams simply don't offer that level of tribal affiliation in those provinces. In their NPC team, they see the players that went to their school or play for their club. Players they may know personally, or their relatives. That's important for a lot of people.
Also, as has been explained multiple times already, you shouldn't just look at crowd numbers. It's a bad yard stick for a competitions success. You should include viewer numbers, which unfortunately aren't made public.
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@friedrugby I think you are generalising too much and you can't prove it either. There are plenty of provinces with decent crowds, particularly the provinces not based in the SR main centres. And those that are based in SR main centres may just be playing in venues that are too big (and expensive) for NPC.
And no, I can't prove it, but am going by who I know and talk to (and that's quite a few), people in the provinces without a SR base are far more supportive of their NPC team than you think. And they'd hate to lose NPC, because that's where they see their team that really represents them with a majority of local players playing for the team. SR teams simply don't offer that level of tribal affiliation in those provinces. In their NPC team, they see the players that went to their school or play for their club. Players they may know personally, or their relatives. That's important for a lot of people.
Also, as has been explained multiple times already, you shouldn't just look at crowd numbers. It's a bad yard stick for a competitions success. You should include viewer numbers, which unfortunately aren't made public.
@Stargazer said in Super Rugby 2024:
@friedrugby I think you are generalising too much and you can't prove it either. There are plenty of provinces with decent crowds, particularly the provinces not based in the SR main centres. And those that are based in SR main centres may just be playing in venues that are too big (and expensive) for NPC.
And no, I can't prove it, but am going by who I know and talk to (and that's quite a few), people in the provinces without a SR base are far more supportive of their NPC team than you think. And they'd hate to lose NPC, because that's where they see their team that really represents them with a majority of local players playing for the team. SR teams simply don't offer that level of tribal affiliation in those provinces. In their NPC team, they see the players that went to their school or play for their club. Players they may know personally, or their relatives. That's important for a lot of people.
Also, as has been explained multiple times already, you shouldn't just look at crowd numbers. It's a bad yard stick for a competitions success. You should include viewer numbers, which unfortunately aren't made public.
I don't think anything you have said there is not true. And in Rugby's current model you wouldn't get rid of the NPC, because that would leave way too long a gap, and way too small amount of rugby. If the Aussies did bugger off, or they did expand Super Rugby, it would be interesting to see what they would do.
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can we all just accept that every union might be slightly different, like i said otago was 1 day away from liquidation in 2012 based on nearly 50% drop in revenue over 2 years...so some of us have very real memories of almost losing things...that doesn't mean hawkes bay is in the same boat....BUT, if teams do start to disappear the the more stable teams wont have as many teams to play....and so there is possibly a domino effect
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can we all just accept that every union might be slightly different, like i said otago was 1 day away from liquidation in 2012 based on nearly 50% drop in revenue over 2 years...so some of us have very real memories of almost losing things...that doesn't mean hawkes bay is in the same boat....BUT, if teams do start to disappear the the more stable teams wont have as many teams to play....and so there is possibly a domino effect
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can we all just accept that every union might be slightly different, like i said otago was 1 day away from liquidation in 2012 based on nearly 50% drop in revenue over 2 years...so some of us have very real memories of almost losing things...that doesn't mean hawkes bay is in the same boat....BUT, if teams do start to disappear the the more stable teams wont have as many teams to play....and so there is possibly a domino effect
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Clayton McMillan doesn't like it because any kid having the option to live and play code in Sydney or Hamilton is probably not gonna choose the Waikato.
hmmmm, Coogeee or Ham East? hmmmm, let me just weigh that up (packs bags)
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2024:
Clayton McMillan doesn't like it because any kid having the option to live and play code in Sydney or Hamilton is probably not gonna choose the Waikato.
hmmmm, Coogeee or Ham East? hmmmm, let me just weigh that up (packs bags)
Yep but a draft stop the kid having an option doesn't it??
