RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks

[Duluth]

@Snowy said in RWC: France v All Blacks:

So out of 84 votes, only 15 of us saw that coming. I can only assume that a lot of people haven’t noticed the list of Foster’s AB “achievements” or just have truly “blind” faith that what had taken over 100 years to build has fallen.

39/84 predicted a loss. I doubt we've ever had a more pessimistic poll

[nostrildamus]

@Steve said in RWC: France v All Blacks:

Its a pity Stevenson and/or Jordan did not get more minutes at 15 previously.

We also severely lack a Levi Aumua type at 12. It's just a necessity in international rugby now. You need someone to cart it up.

Fosters in and out Hokey Cokey selection policy has left a fair few guys not knowing where they stand. Roigard, DMAC, Jacobsen, Finau...I could go on. It's all over the place and has been for a few years. Perofeta (1 minute against Ireland), Sowakula, RTS, Ennor. Rightly or wrongly loads of blokes got messed around. Faingaanuku was in the wilderness for a longtime too.

We looked magic against Argentina with DMAC and then foster just ripped it all up.

I cannot get my head around his tenure at all. He is all over the place.

yes you can, under pressure Foster reverts to his favourites.
But there is no plan B. Unlike France we don't seem to be able to shift gears, to counter the opposition's plan B because we don't have one.
The powder is very dry.
What is worst, quality 10s go into the ABs and come out worse. I am sure I remember a time when players return from AB training camps and matches and are improved players.
Lomax, maybe, not many others. Most seem to go backwards. Especially at 10.

[taniwharugby]

@Stargazer problem is, you see the play at the lower levels replicates those same issues we see at the top.

I'm not sure players are the issue, it's the readiness and mental conditioning as they come through the grades is the problem, and something we have long known, we simply don't seem to like playing the type of footy required to win RWCs, we still want to win pretty

[nostrildamus]

how hard is it to have good exits?

[stodders]

@nostrildamus don’t worry. Next year the ABs have McKenzie and ????? as the options at 10.

[Steve]

@Machpants said in RWC: France v All Blacks:

@Snowy said in RWC: France v All Blacks:

So out of 84 votes, only 15 of us saw that coming. I can only assume that a lot of people haven’t noticed the list of Foster’s AB “achievements” or just have truly “blind” faith that what had taken over 100 years to build has fallen.

I think you will find that like me, I thought we would lose but it felt wrong to vote that. Almost feels like you want that to happen if you vote that way. Head and heart thing was mentioned multiple times in the thread

Yeah I voted for the win and stuck 20 quid on the win.

Couldn’t bring myself to vote for a loss.

[Stargazer]

@Steve said in RWC: France v All Blacks:

And I can't believe O Gara was let into the Crusaders set up. We up-skilled the next (probably) Irish coach at the expense of a New Zealander.

You're - IMO incorrectly - assuming that O'Gara was the only one getting something out of his coaching stint in NZ. I'd say, O'Gara was already a very good coach and he added something to the coaching set-up of the Crusaders. They may actually have learned some good things from him, too.

[nostrildamus]

@stodders said in RWC: France v All Blacks:

@nostrildamus don’t worry. Next year the ABs have McKenzie and ????? as the options at 10.

I wasn't a fan of him at 10 but he slowly swung me around a bit. Played better in NZ XV though.

[pjay]

Why don’t we do the winning French thing and have a major off field political blow up by sacking our head coach mid tournament … and hunt down Razor to get on a plane toute suite.
What have we got to lose…

[stodders]

@taniwharugby 2011/2015 crops had to learn that the hard way in 2007. It doesn’t matter how you win, you just need to win.

ABs and AB fans will definitely be desperate in 4 more years to win any which way. Then the real learnings can begin again.

[stodders]

@pjay French didn’t get a new coach in. They just sidelined Lievremont.

[pjay]

Details, details

[taniwharugby]

@stodders 2011 was the only one I think ground out wins, 2015, that side was a class above and the real final was v SA.

[NTA]

Not much between the teams IMHO in terms of skill, physicality, and fitness.

The two real differences were use of brain and use of hands. ABs lost a lot of ball in contact.

Also I don't think you can really have Mo'unga and Beaugan out there at the same time. Just doesn't feel like they complement each other.

A lot of smarts from France on defence. Never panicked, realigned very well, learned from their mistakes. Understood the conditions and hit hard to dislodge the pill. Also played Jaco better, which is basically spin the fucking wheel and see what happens.

Their game management was also good. Stuck at their work, played territory, kept turning over points.

It was kind of ironic they scored their last try off a bullshit bounce against a team that has deployed the bullshit bounce many times in the last decade.

[stodders]

@stodders 2015 knew how to dig themselves out of a hole. Remember the pool game against Argentina?

[Victor Meldrew]

@Chris said in RWC: France v All Blacks:

@Victor-Meldrew

Are you telling me NZ will not produce any new talent in the next 4 years.

I'm asking where is this new talent we need to beat other countries coming from when they seem to develop better talent.

We always do.It just depends on how many.

At the moment in many positions the "how many" equates to bugger-all

[stodders]

First half, ABs didn’t kick that badly. They certainly were playing for territory and not too much high risk in their half.

Then something changed in the second half and Barrett forgot how to kick for touch and territory.

[mencey]

@stodders said in RWC: France v All Blacks:

@mencey Foster is learning, but the players aren’t

Yep. But the Busk stops. SW and BR were in the 2015 team that won the WC. They are probably the greatest locking pair in history. There are genuine great players in this team like Ardie. It all starts with the game plan and picking of that team. Some of these players should not be there anymore or should not have been there in that first place. Christie comes to mind among others. Used to rate ALB. But he has lost it. Anyway. I think Razor knows how to build a team. He is there to prove me wrong but I would not bet against him.

[Winger]

@Machpants said in RWC: France v All Blacks:

@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: France v All Blacks:

@Stargazer said in RWC: France v All Blacks:

@pjay said in RWC: France v All Blacks:

No team plays like the ABs (and that is not a compliment). It is the height of arrogance to think that you have achieved some new paradigm in rugby while the rest of the best play what I call the ‘European’ way….and win

Who's claiming to have achieved "some new paradigm in rugby"?

I haven't seen any arrogance whatsoever. Just incompetence.

I think the arrogance comment is around the view a lot of AB supports have that NZ alway has he best players, best set up and best rugby thinkers

Not here we don't. Incompetence from the board down, as shown by the report on governance coupled with our recent records in mens XV

Well said NewsHub

I completely gave up on these coaches when Roigard wasn't selected for this game. Team is being coached by fools. BB is bad enough but this decision took dumb selections to another.

21-Finlay Christie 2

Any chance the All Blacks had of turning around the 19-13 scoreline went out the window when Christie entered the fray. You have to wonder what more Cam Roigard or even Brad Weber have to do to be considered as Smith's back-up..

[Victor Meldrew]

@nostrildamus

The forwards (and the backs) were only totally shit against France for 40 minutes